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Patagonians

BrianB

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So this is a strange one. A friend purchased a pair of Patagonian conures last year. As soon as they arrived he had them disease tested. They came back positive for ABV. The breeder he purchased them from then said they disputed the results. When given proof by the lab they claimed to not believe it, there was no guarantee with any bird, all sales are final, etc.. etc.. etc.. Pretty shady if you ask me. The birds are carriers and not presenting any clinical signs of the disease.

A year goes by, he's maintained good biosecurity, hygiene, and sanitation to prevent it from spreading. Regular testing and none of his flock have become infected either. He made the decision to never breed them. The male is 23, so he's probably too old anyway. Now he's moving to another state. He's moving with the birds in the cabin of a truck and doesn't want his flock in such close proximity during the trip. He asked if I would take them. Now they are in my old aviary, on the far side of the yard away from the house. I've instituted the same security, sanitation and hygiene procedures to keep my flock healthy. My birds are inside. My shoes stay outside. They have their own dishes, and everything is sprayed with a sanitizer before being brought inside for washing. They are the last ones to be fed each day, and then I head to the shower.

I had thought to keep them in isolation and let them live out their lives. As long as they are healthy and not suffering. Another option is to sell them with full disclosure of their health, with the understanding that they are to never breed. With the age of the male, I don't think it's possible. They must go to an aviary that understands the health risks and can maintain proper sanitation.

While talking to another breeder, I was told to immediately have them put down. My friend had a successful breeding season with his other birds and not a single case of infection. Any suggestions?
 

sunnysmom

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I wouldn't put them down. I don't know a lot about the disease but this article suggests that with proper precautions you can have a bird with ABV and it won't spread to the rest of your flock. It sounds like you're doing that. Avian Bornavirus | Lone Mountain Animal Hospital It was good of you to take them.

@Hankmacaw ?
 

Hawk12237

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Bit disappointing that the breeder didn't give a rats a** about the health of the birds they sell.
Many breeders just want to turn a buck or two, and to them birds are just disposable " objects" .
 

BrianB

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I wouldn't put them down. I don't know a lot about the disease but this article suggests that with proper precautions you can have a bird with ABV and it won't spread to the rest of your flock. It sounds like you're doing that. Avian Bornavirus | Lone Mountain Animal Hospital It was good of you to take them.

@Hankmacaw ?
Interesting - I know Dr Starks and I've sold birds to him in the past. He examined my blue crowns last year before he left the clinic he was at.
 

Hawk12237

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Hawk12237

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So this is a strange one. A friend purchased a pair of Patagonian conures last year. As soon as they arrived he had them disease tested. They came back positive for ABV. The breeder he purchased them from then said they disputed the results. When given proof by the lab they claimed to not believe it, there was no guarantee with any bird, all sales are final, etc.. etc.. etc.. Pretty shady if you ask me. The birds are carriers and not presenting any clinical signs of the disease.

A year goes by, he's maintained good biosecurity, hygiene, and sanitation to prevent it from spreading. Regular testing and none of his flock have become infected either. He made the decision to never breed them. The male is 23, so he's probably too old anyway. Now he's moving to another state. He's moving with the birds in the cabin of a truck and doesn't want his flock in such close proximity during the trip. He asked if I would take them. Now they are in my old aviary, on the far side of the yard away from the house. I've instituted the same security, sanitation and hygiene procedures to keep my flock healthy. My birds are inside. My shoes stay outside. They have their own dishes, and everything is sprayed with a sanitizer before being brought inside for washing. They are the last ones to be fed each day, and then I head to the shower.

I had thought to keep them in isolation and let them live out their lives. As long as they are healthy and not suffering. Another option is to sell them with full disclosure of their health, with the understanding that they are to never breed. With the age of the male, I don't think it's possible. They must go to an aviary that understands the health risks and can maintain proper sanitation.

While talking to another breeder, I was told to immediately have them put down. My friend had a successful breeding season with his other birds and not a single case of infection. Any suggestions?

The ABV attacks the nervous system, it's in many cases fatal if not treated right away. You really have to keep them quarantined and away from other flock. Or you run a very high risk of spreading it to rest of birds.
There are no known treatments for ABV or PDD; however, your veterinarian may discuss with you the option of trying experimental treatments that include combining cytokines and antiviral drugs.
Researchers are currently working on a vaccine that will help treat ABV and PDD. However, this research is still in the development phase.

Read more at: Bornavirus in Birds - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost


 

DoubleTake

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Have the Patagonians been retested after the initial test?
 

BrianB

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The ABV attacks the nervous system, it's in many cases fatal if not treated right away. You really have to keep them quarantined and away from other flock. Or you run a very high risk of spreading it to rest of birds.
There are no known treatments for ABV or PDD; however, your veterinarian may discuss with you the option of trying experimental treatments that include combining cytokines and antiviral drugs.
Researchers are currently working on a vaccine that will help treat ABV and PDD. However, this research is still in the development phase.

Read more at: Bornavirus in Birds - Symptoms, Causes, Diagnosis, Treatment, Recovery, Management, Cost
As I mentioned before, they are quarantined and isolated from my flock in an aviary away from the house. They will never enter my house. They are the only birds in that aviary and I will never put another bird with them. When they pass, that aviary which is made of wood will be destroyed. There are food dishes set aside for them that will never be used by any other bird, and those dishes are sprayed with a sanatizer / disinfectant before they come inside for cleaning. I have shoes that stay outside that I wear when I enter their aviary. They are the last birds to be fed, and when I'm done with them I go right to the shower.

These birds have seen a vet. They are not displaying any clinical signs of the disease, so they are carriers. I spoke with my vet earlier this week and she believes with proper sanitation and hygeine there is no danger of it spreading to my own flock. I went over my steps and she thinks I've got good steps in place.

It seems a shame to just put them down. They aren't suffering in the least. If that changes, then euthanasia is always an option, and I'll call the vet right away to schedule that.
 

Hawk12237

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As I mentioned before, they are quarantined and isolated from my flock in an aviary away from the house. They will never enter my house. They are the only birds in that aviary and I will never put another bird with them. When they pass, that aviary which is made of wood will be destroyed. There are food dishes set aside for them that will never be used by any other bird, and those dishes are sprayed with a sanatizer / disinfectant before they come inside for cleaning. I have shoes that stay outside that I wear when I enter their aviary. They are the last birds to be fed, and when I'm done with them I go right to the shower.

These birds have seen a vet. They are not displaying any clinical signs of the disease, so they are carriers. I spoke with my vet earlier this week and she believes with proper sanitation and hygeine there is no danger of it spreading to my own flock. I went over my steps and she thinks I've got good steps in place.

It seems a shame to just put them down. They aren't suffering in the least. If that changes, then euthanasia is always an option, and I'll call the vet right away to schedule that.

Well your doing all the right things. Just sad the breeder acted the way they did.
 

Begone

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To put them to sleep it's out of the question!!
They can't help that they are carriers. :(

If you can't keep them perhaps someone else can that don't have other birds.
Perhaps they also wants a active life and live indoors?
You will know what is best for them but please redo the test so you are really sure that they have ABV.
 

Hawk12237

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To put them to sleep it's out of the question!!
They can't help that they are carriers. :(

If you can't keep them perhaps someone else can that don't have other birds.
Perhaps they also wants a active life and live indoors?
You will know what is best for them but please redo the test so you are really sure that they have ABV.

I agree also, because many times, because many diseases mimic other diseases, it's not uncommon to have a false positive for something such as ABV, when it could be something else that can mimic the symptoms but be less harsh and even treatable!
 

Karen

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To put them to sleep it's out of the question!!
They can't help that they are carriers. :(

If you can't keep them perhaps someone else can that don't have other birds.
Perhaps they also wants a active life and live indoors?
You will know what is best for them but please redo the test so you are really sure that they have ABV.
This ^
 

webchirp

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Oiy vey...abv is not a death sentence or easily passed to other birds...depending on the strain I suppose. And if people haven't had every bird they own tested, how do you know they'll "infect" your flock?. Maks the new baby tested positive for abv. We only tested him because I have the two girls who tested positive and we want to track anyone who comes in or pops up feeling unwell. I know of someone who has a caique pair or had. The male did pass from illness many years later but the female is fine and tests negative. Their is a lot of misinformation and fear out there. There have even been reports of birds with PDD that did not have abv or test positive. Dr. Orosz is very particular on where she sends for labs as well.

I would not put these guys down nor would I freak out about the results. ABV does not have a long life span outside of the bird. However, do not let him/her bond or feed any other birds. I opt for quality of life versus quantity. Kari and Amada are both ABV positive...I'm not sure if Julip is or not and they all share a cage.

Just my two cents and Dr. Orosz and I talk about the subject often.

Support group for ABV if interested: Avian Bornavirus (ABV) Support Group Public Group | Facebook
 
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cassiesdad

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As I mentioned before, they are quarantined and isolated from my flock in an aviary away from the house. They will never enter my house. They are the only birds in that aviary and I will never put another bird with them. When they pass, that aviary which is made of wood will be destroyed. There are food dishes set aside for them that will never be used by any other bird, and those dishes are sprayed with a sanatizer / disinfectant before they come inside for cleaning. I have shoes that stay outside that I wear when I enter their aviary. They are the last birds to be fed, and when I'm done with them I go right to the shower.

These birds have seen a vet. They are not displaying any clinical signs of the disease, so they are carriers. I spoke with my vet earlier this week and she believes with proper sanitation and hygeine there is no danger of it spreading to my own flock. I went over my steps and she thinks I've got good steps in place.

It seems a shame to just put them down. They aren't suffering in the least. If that changes, then euthanasia is always an option, and I'll call the vet right away to schedule that.
You have, and are working, a great plan with them...and there is no need, at present, for euthanasia.

Thank you for caring about these birds...
 

tka

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You're doing all the right things by practising good biosecurity and monitoring their health closely. I think I would be inclined to retest in case it was a false positive.
 

cassiesdad

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...and one thing I forgot to say before...these birds needed a Champion...and they've found one in you...:heart:
 

BrianB

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I thought I would update this - I've found a home for the Patagonians. I knew if I held out long enough the right person would come along that met all the criteria I wanted. They are going to a retired veterinarian who is equipped to deal with their needs. He asked very specific and detailed questions about their health, behavior, and needs. I asked him a bunch in return and I'm satisfied he's the right person for them.

I took them to my vet today to get a health certificate for travel and I was finally able to see their personalities. They are very well bonded and if the male wasn't 23 years old, I'm sure she would be laying eggs like crazy. They are head over heels for each other. I was able to handle them both which was a surprise. As long as I could separate them, I could get one of them to step up. At various times I had one or both on me without bloodshed. If they could see each other they were ok during the exam.

I'm going to ship them out on Monday to their new owner. He's very excited to have them.
 

Begone

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Good luck! ♥
 

Mockinbirdiva

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Blessings for a safe uneventful flight and a great new home!
 
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