New Parrot Jesses

[Sunnyside]

Yup, Marc is a definite accident waiting to happen! My stomach hurts when I see him on tv because I just know he will have all of the different animals together without any sense of order nor control. Yup, yup, yup to all Judy said on both posts

 

[Stevo]

Yup, BOP are physiologically different to Parrots and have legs built to withstand the forces. This is a quick way to injure a parrot.

The difference in force between a bird trying to fly off with its foot held and a bird that reaches the end of it's tether is monumental.

Sheer craziness and a return to the dark, dark ages. Mercedez, I thought you were more progressive than this

 

[Love My Zons]

I do not like those at all. I would never put them on my boys. Mine are flighted inside and when they do outside, they are safe and secure in the 2nd largest cage in the house it wheels outside very easy.

 

[Greycloud]

Steve Martin of Natural Encounters states that jesses should never be used on non Birds of Prey. They do not possess the strength that Raptors have in their leg muscles. Here is a statement(about 3/4 way down on the article presenting by the IAATE (International Assoc of Avian Trainers and Educators)on restraining non BOP.
http://iaate.org/pdfs/PositionStatement-Tethering.pdf

 

[Tangle Elf]

I would like to see what the actual data is on this. Using the leg bands caanot be good. It's not what they are designed for. However, if the bands were designed for parrots with their anatomy in mind, it could be an option. I doubt they'd be any easier to put on than a harness and the bird would have to get use to them, but I can see where some birds might be more comfortable with that than a harness. For a group of people that is usually pretty quick to back up their opinions with research, I'm a little surprised at the lack of facts in either thread. I'm also surprised that instead of presenting any kind of argurment as to why, a members opinion would be considered "wrong." Opinions, by their very nature, cannot be wrong. It's kind of the point of having an opinion. It's what you believe. It's like telling someone that purple is not their favorite color.

 

[Love My Zons]

The difference in force between a bird trying to fly off with its foot held and a bird that reaches the end of it's tether is monumental.

Absolutely, I at times have to make sure I have them by their feet esp Kazoo. He is very strong and can take off in a heartbeat. I have him secure, but the thought about letting a fast flying bird with these on their feet and the leash just running out, would be like myself and my car hitting a wall at 50MPH I forsee the force in stopping to a dead stop from momentum nothing shorter than doubling the shock of the tug. What a horrible thought to even think about.

 

[Stevo]

I would like to see what the actual data is on this. Using the leg bands caanot be good. It's not what they are designed for. However, if the bands were designed for parrots with their anatomy in mind, it could be an option. I doubt they'd be any easier to put on than a harness and the bird would have to get use to them, but I can see where some birds might be more comfortable with that than a harness. For a group of people that is usually pretty quick to back up their opinions with research, I'm a little surprised at the lack of facts in either thread. I'm also surprised that instead of presenting any kind of argurment as to why, a members opinion would be considered "wrong." Opinions, by their very nature, cannot be wrong. It's kind of the point of having an opinion. It's what you believe. It's like telling someone that purple is not their favorite color.

If you want research then look in a bird anatomy book at the differences between the 2 families. If you want research on the differences in force between stopping something that has just accelerated from zero velocity and stopping something flying at 10mph (or whatever speed our parrots fly at, lol) then grab yourself a highschool physics book.

 

[Tangle Elf]

If you want research then look in a bird anatomy book at the differences between the 2 families. If you want research on the differences in force between stopping something that has just accelerated from zero velocity and stopping something flying at 10mph (or whatever speed our parrots fly at, lol) then grab yourself a highschool physics book.

I have a book on avian anatomy, but I'm not telling people that this is a good or bad idea. I'm just surprised that this debate was completely lacking fact or rwfernces.

 

[Love My Zons]

I think the Guy that invented these should sit in one of those seatbelt slides the Cops bring to make you feel an impact while belted in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBHnhFHWzY

But let him slide tethered by his neck so he can really feel the jolt.

 

[jmfleish]

You know, I was driving to work today and spooked a little black bird who had flown across the street. He flew next to my car trying to cross again and I was going at least 20 MPH and he was keeping up. That was a little black bird. Our medium and large parrots can get up to speeds much faster I would think and if they startled and something like that was attached to their legs suddenly tugged them back...I'm thinking that would be a very, very bad situation....just a thought.

 

[Birdlover]

The difference in force between a bird trying to fly off with its foot held and a bird that reaches the end of it's tether is monumental.

I was thinking exactly this.

Particularly with something like the Aviator harness, it is designed so the bird can fly in it (still attached to a leash of some sort). Jesses are intended to keep the bird with the handler, and the leash removed for the bird to fly. So certainly they are not being used in the same way anyhow, since the intent of this is only to keep the bird with you. I can not imagine having a parrot take off with this attached to its legs and hitting the end of the leash (which, obviously is there to keep the bird with you). I know he didnt say that was what this was intended for, but still - its bound to happen, particularly on a bird that is allowed to fly. I like that he tried to come up with something to keep a parrot flighted, but there are much better ways to take a flighted parrot outside. If you arent going to allow them to fly, I'd rather have them in a travel cage of some sort anyway.

I would still love to have an enclosed area outside large enough to really fly around in, but until then the only flying my guys will do is inside

 

[Tangle Elf]

I was thinking exactly this.

Particularly with something like the Aviator harness, it is designed so the bird can fly in it (still attached to a leash of some sort). Jesses are intended to keep the bird with the handler, and the leash removed for the bird to fly. So certainly they are not being used in the same way anyhow, since the intent of this is only to keep the bird with you. I can not imagine having a parrot take off with this attached to its legs and hitting the end of the leash (which, obviously is there to keep the bird with you). I know he didnt say that was what this was intended for, but still - its bound to happen, particularly on a bird that is allowed to fly. I like that he tried to come up with something to keep a parrot flighted, but there are much better ways to take a flighted parrot outside. If you arent going to allow them to fly, I'd rather have them in a travel cage of some sort anyway.

I would still love to have an enclosed area outside large enough to really fly around in, but until then the only flying my guys will do is inside

I see it only being a viable option as a back up to keep birds that aren't flighted with the owner. I wouldn't expect a long tether allowing them to build up momentum. It's possibly a viable option if it was properly engineered, but it would take a lot of research and an engineer to consider the force and how much of that can be absorbed by the material used. I doubt there's a big enough market for it to be worth the research to any company. Especially when the avian community in general seems uninterested in the idea.

 

[Bokkapooh]

From my experience, if you have a parrot in Jesses, and that can fly, they control their force on the Jesses. This was true with both Bokka and Gra. I taught Gra how to be recall flight trained by using Jesses. Bokka preferred the Jesses over the aviator and I used the Jesses for a good two solid years before Bokka became "ok" with the aviator. He always preferred the Jesses. I remember when Bokka took flight for the first time in an aviator. It recoiled on him, he hit the ground and got pulled back 6 ft. His body and tail feathers all facing forward. Took him a while to like it. With the Jesses and using the flight line that's made for the aviator, he NEVER, nor Gra, ever had a problem, and they flew hard and far on a 40 ft flit line and extended leash. I love the aviator, but if I could go back, I would continue to do as I did and continue to use them over the aviator(and I think the aviator is top line harness for birds). Now, my living birds don't know the Jesses, so I don't use them. This is just my experience, I have pics of Gra in her Jesses

I think the anti jesses comes from the anti chaining parrots to perches. I would never chain a parrot to a perch. But I'm pro Jesses for large birds.

 

[Love My Zons]

I see it only being a viable option as a back up to keep birds that aren't flighted with the owner. I wouldn't expect a long tether allowing them to build up momentum. It's possibly a viable option if it was properly engineered, but it would take a lot of research and an engineer to consider the force and how much of that can be absorbed by the material used. I doubt there's a big enough market for it to be worth the research to any company. Especially when the avian community in general seems uninterested in the idea.

Many birds will react differently outside and if spooked will try to fly off regardless if they are flighted. Even ones that will flap and fall can suffer adverse effects from being held by your feet.

It is the un-educated avian community that will fail with this by the way it is marketed that is what you need to worry about!

 

[Birdlover]

The thought of a bird jumping off dangling by its legs flapping and struggling because its held to you by a leash attached to its legs makes me feel sick.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Yup, BOP are physiologically different to Parrots and have legs built to withstand the forces. This is a quick way to injure a parrot.

The difference in force between a bird trying to fly off with its foot held and a bird that reaches the end of it's tether is monumental.

Sheer craziness and a return to the dark, dark ages. Mercedez, I thought you were more progressive than this

I'm just different and have done things according to my birds likings. Now do you have proof of flighted parrots in true jesses that have caused injury? Or are we going off of fear here? Making things sound like facts that aren't true? Solid proof. Anyone? Seems like all this stems from the anger and fear and overall dislike of seeing a parrot chained. A chained parrot is not a jessed parrot.

 

[Kathy N]

Again, I would like to call your attention to this thread:http://forums.avianavenue.com/african-grey-alley/62497-question-about-flying.html?highlight=jesses

Marc is an accident waiting happen and has many times already!

Just thought the above bore repeating.

Also. a vet keeping a parrot from taking off by holding it's feet, is a different thing from a bird making the leap and experiencing a jerk at the end of a leash. The vet is keeping the bird on his hand, the bird has no momentum. It hasn't gone anywhere.

While I would love my birds to be able to go outside with me, I'm sorry, I'll always err on the side of caution. There has to be a safer way. The thought of them getting hurt, or flying off lost, into that big sky, because of my stupidity and lack of foresight makes me cringe. It's my nightmare.

 

[Tangle Elf]

Just thought the above bore repeating.

I couldn't find anything in that thread about injuries. I was just wondering if there are documented cases of injuries.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Im just very curious about these injuries everyone is bringing up. They never, at all, happened with either Bokka and Gra. I can see possible injuries to little birds. But large birds? I just can't see it, or any mishap happening from them. They never did with my two soul mates. My mind can make up fears and horrors, but it doesn't mean it happened, or will or even could happen. I don't understand the point of saying negative things about something unless its been proven unsafe.

 

[TextsFromParrots]

People are bringing it up with knowledge of avian anatomy and how jesses work and what the likely result will be at a bird launching itself and being stopped by them suddenly in midair. There likely won't be injuries seen until there's a large pool of birds using them. Two birds doesn't a scientific study make. At the moment they aren't used popularly because other safer options have been developed.