My experience/thoughts on *taming* a clipped vs. flighted bird.

[GlassOnion]

I got my Budgie, Spice, in Spring of this year. I kept her flighted until summer came around when I lightly trimmed her outer two primaries due to windows being open everywhere for ventilation. (We didn't have screens.) She came to be semi-handleable bird to begin with, but when I clipped her wings, she instantly calmed down to a more 'tame' bird. She was definitely not as energetic or happy, but much more handleable. So I thought, "well, I guess people do clip for a reason when trying to tame a parent-raised bird."

Then Fall rolls along and Spice goes through a moult. I remembered how happy and joyous she was when she could fly, she would do laps around the room and chirp like a madman. I decided that even if I do lose that tameness I felt I had, Spice should regain her flight, and that I would just take it very slow. I pretty much dropped the expectation of her building a relationship with me.

When she could fly again, obviously she returned to her independent, flighty self, but a very happy bird at least. Without any expectations, I gave her treats, pet her every once in a while, eat with the birds, etc. Then about two weeks ago or so, she started making the decision to fly to my shoulder or hand and preen my skin, play with my hair, pick at my mole... Usually, she always flies to me when Apple lands on me, but I could tell that this was starting to become more than her just using me as a perch to be with Apple.

Right now, Spice is carefully preening the mole on my neck and giving me nibbles everywhere. Obviously she wouldn't be here if Apple didn't come first.. But I can definitely see a start of a relationship. A friendship that Spice chose to initiate, not one that I could've forced on her by taking away her flight and giving her no other choice.

I have to say that what we have right now is much stronger than when I could take her anywhere back when she was clipped. Much more real than forcing a friendship on a bird that doesn't want it. It's still in progress in every means, but it's a great feeling knowing that what we have is naturally built on real trust and time.

So..... to those of you who are considering a clip for 'taming' purposes, do remember that mutually respected friendship with a flighted bird is very rewarding and flattering!

Her colors in person are actually brilliant. Various shades of bright turquoise to purply blue, with a bright lemony head!

 

[TextsFromParrots]

So when she was clipped that didn't help tame her at all to get her to the point she's at now? I'm trying to understand. If she was clipped and tamed down and you bonded together, and when she was flighted you both continued that relationship on another level I'd say that it may be helpful to come folks to clip at first.

 

[GlassOnion]

I would say it didn't help much, and if it did, not enough to make much of a difference. Before she was clipped, I could still touch her everywhere, flip her on her back, grab her, etc. She just didn't like me. And then when I did clip her, she still didn't like me. It's just been the last few weeks that she decided we should be friends.

The issue it seems for many people, is that 'tame', clipped birds revert to being wild when their flights grow. That's why many owners continue to clip. I let Spice go 'wild' so to speak, but she came around by herself. Her being clipped didn't make her like me more. Giving her a choice and letting her make her own decisions while flighted is how she started to trust me. I actually think that clipping may have hindered our progress, and that if I had just let her be, she would've had the confidence to come to me sooner.

What I'm saying is that we made no progress when she was clipped, and she didn't like me in our entire history together until I let her be flighted and make her own decisions.

 

[Stevo]

A relationship built on trust and mutual respect, rather than mutilation, is always going to have stronger positive bonds. Teaching a bird, by clipping it, that it needs you and depends on you, builds a relationship based on reliance - something that it may no longer need if you then allow it to be flighted.

 

[love4birds]

Rigby's not "tame" exactly, but he often chooses to fly to me and hang out with me. His favourite spot is on top of my head. It is very rewarding to have them choose to spend time with you rather than be forced

 

[ShirleyBird]

A relationship built on trust and mutual respect, rather than mutilation, is always going to have stronger positive bonds. Teaching a bird, by clipping it, that it needs you and depends on you, builds a relationship based on reliance - something that it may no longer need if you then allow it to be flighted.

I'm by no means am trying to start trouble, or be disrespectful. I think using the word mutilation is a bit strong. Its like cutting hair, it grows back and its a personal choice by the human companion. Yes my birds are clipped....not mutilated...so we agree to disagree.

 

[Stevo]

I'm by no means am trying to start trouble, or be disrespectful. I think using the word mutilation is a bit strong. Its like cutting hair, it grows back and its a personal choice by the human companion. Yes my birds are clipped....not mutilated...so we agree to disagree.

Happy to agree to disagree. Any bird, clipped, is temporarily handicapped. It's ability to fly has been mutilated, albeit short or long-term. A strong word perhaps but used for emphasis to get across that a relationship with a bird can be so much more richer if built upon the tennets of trust, respect and choice.

 

[Ariahna]

This is a very good discussion Anita, and I agree with you. The moderator of an IRN board I used to visit constantly gave out the advice that clipping helped with the taming process. I managed to tame PJ while he was fully flighted, and I really enjoyed watching him develop trust and initiate interaction with me on his terms. In my opinion, all clipping does is make catching the bird easier so you can employ some form of training technique other than positive reinforcement.

 

[jmfleish]

I have to agree that, sometimes a clip *may* help make a bird more dependent on you, therefore, seem like it's easier to "tame" the bird, there is nothing like having a bird who has the choice to be with you come to you. All of my birds are also flighted, although Clancy CAG cannot fly because he has a fused wing...oops, Amarillo is currently clipped but can fly short distances if she puts her mind to it. Kishka RB2 was my first bird that was never really clipped. He did come clipped with two flights on each wing but it didn't really slow him down at all. He's constantly coming to me and it's his choice, although sometimes I wish he would just go play! LOL!

I also agree with Steve that clipping a bird is handicapping that bird...mutilation is kind of strong, but it also does seem to fit. It isn't like cutting hair and they just grow back. When you clip a bird's wings, you are stopping it from doing the one thing it's whole body was designed to do and that is fly. You are making it much more reliant on you. I totally get that some people do have to clip birds and I'm not going to say it's a bad thing, but I defintely think it does put the bird at a disadvantage on so many levels.

 

[LivingFiction]

Having worked with both mutilated, and handicapped individuals I also take exception to applying that term to a measured process of modification to achieve an intended purpose with a bird's best interest in mind.

And to qualify that statement I'll have to speak to considerations in regard to a birds best interest.

I'm raising two boys. Boys need to play, they need to run, they need independence and freedom to learn, grow and experience. The best case scenario would be to live on a big farm where they could be outside and run and play all day, experiencing nature in relative safety. Or at least to have a large yard with a variety of trees and toys to build their minds and bodies. That would be ideal. But it's not my reality.

I don't live on a farm, I can't afford a farm. I don't even live in our house right now, we're in an apartment to accomodate my wife going to school. So they can't really even play outside without supervision, there are too many variables affecting their safety. I know people who believe one should never physically restrain a child, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let one run into the street. Oh, well that's different, right? No, that's restraining a child, and illustrates that I will modify my behavior and impose increased limitations to protect and keep those for whom I am responsible safe.

I'm still going back and forth on whether or not I will choose to clip the wings of my impending family addition. I've had birds clipped and unclipped, and each and every clipping decision was based on the same criteria I wil be using to make the choice ahead of me. What is in the best interest of the safety of the bird given it's current circumstances?

There will always be people who disagree with me both sides of the issue, precisely because I do not agree with either side in the absolute. I will do what is best as I see fit. That goes for every choice regarding my family. And that's the way it has to be, because there was only one time ever when I was faced with a decision that affected my family where I took the advice of someone I believed knew better than me despite the fact it went against my own judgement and conscience, and I regret it to this day.

Nobody knows my situation like I do. So I believe I am best qualified to keep every life in my stewardship safe within it.

 

[jmfleish]

Having worked with both mutilated, and handicapped individuals I also take exception to applying that term to a measured process of modification to achieve an intended purpose with a bird's best interest in mind.

And to qualify that statement I'll have to speak to considerations in regard to a birds best interest.

I'm raising two boys. Boys need to play, they need to run, they need independence and freedom to learn, grow and experience. The best case scenario would be to live on a big farm where they could be outside and run and play all day, experiencing nature in relative safety. Or at least to have a large yard with a variety of trees and toys to build their minds and bodies. That would be ideal. But it's not my reality.

I don't live on a farm, I can't afford a farm. I don't even live in our house right now, we're in an apartment to accomodate my wife going to school. So they can't really even play outside without supervision, there are too many variables affecting their safety. I know people who believe one should never physically restrain a child, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let one run into the street. Oh, well that's different, right? No, that's restraining a child, and illustrates that I will modify my behavior and impose increased limitations to protect and keep those for whom I am responsible safe.

I'm still going back and forth on whether or not I will choose to clip the wings of my impending family addition. I've had birds clipped and unclipped, and each and every clipping decision was based on the same criteria I wil be using to make the choice ahead of me. What is in the best interest of the safety of the bird given it's current circumstances?

There will always be people who disagree with me both sides of the issue, precisely because I do not agree with either side in the absolute. I will do what is best as I see fit. That goes for every choice regarding my family. And that's the way it has to be, because there was only one time ever when I was faced with a decision that affected my family where I took the advice of someone I believed knew better than me despite the fact it went against my own judgement and conscience, and I regret it to this day.

Nobody knows my situation like I do. So I believe I am best qualified to keep every life in my stewardship safe within it.

I do agree with you and I think that clipping is a very individual choice, but I still think that you are handicapping a bird by taking away it's flight. It's not meant to say it's good, bad, or indifferent, but it is a handicap. Birds are meant to fly and that is what they do the most, fly. The example of stopping your sons from running in the street is not the same as clipping a bird. Birds are healthier when they can fly. Their heart beats better when they are in flight, the air they breathe is circulated through their body better in flight. Everything about a bird is designed for flight. Now, if you wanted to tie your sons' legs together so they had to hobble around, it might be more similar to clipping a bird's wings.

Like I mentioned previously, I do understand that some people will need to clip a bird's wings for various reasons, but to say it isn't detrimental to the bird as a whole would be lying.

 

[Ariahna]

Having worked with both mutilated, and handicapped individuals I also take exception to applying that term to a measured process of modification to achieve an intended purpose with a bird's best interest in mind.

And to qualify that statement I'll have to speak to considerations in regard to a birds best interest.

I'm raising two boys. Boys need to play, they need to run, they need independence and freedom to learn, grow and experience. The best case scenario would be to live on a big farm where they could be outside and run and play all day, experiencing nature in relative safety. Or at least to have a large yard with a variety of trees and toys to build their minds and bodies. That would be ideal. But it's not my reality.

I don't live on a farm, I can't afford a farm. I don't even live in our house right now, we're in an apartment to accomodate my wife going to school. So they can't really even play outside without supervision, there are too many variables affecting their safety. I know people who believe one should never physically restrain a child, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let one run into the street. Oh, well that's different, right? No, that's restraining a child, and illustrates that I will modify my behavior and impose increased limitations to protect and keep those for whom I am responsible safe.

I'm still going back and forth on whether or not I will choose to clip the wings of my impending family addition. I've had birds clipped and unclipped, and each and every clipping decision was based on the same criteria I wil be using to make the choice ahead of me. What is in the best interest of the safety of the bird given it's current circumstances?

There will always be people who disagree with me both sides of the issue, precisely because I do not agree with either side in the absolute. I will do what is best as I see fit. That goes for every choice regarding my family. And that's the way it has to be, because there was only one time ever when I was faced with a decision that affected my family where I took the advice of someone I believed knew better than me despite the fact it went against my own judgement and conscience, and I regret it to this day.

Nobody knows my situation like I do. So I believe I am best qualified to keep every life in my stewardship safe within it.

I read the OP to pertain to "taming" birds. I agree that when we are discussing safety issues there are far more variables to consider, and that comes down to individual bird behavior and the environment in which the bird lives. I had read stories where a bird is aggressive, and dive-bombing or attacking family members or house guests, and I would definitely support clipping to ensure the safety of everyone involved. I even agreed to clip PJ when we thought he had a virus that he could spread to the other birds (he doesn't), so there are definitely valid reasons for clipping a bird to ensure their safety and that of others, I just don't think "taming" is one of them.

 

[GlassOnion]

I don't think clipping really solves anything, for any problem. I do think that it gives the 'illusion' of a solution because the bird has disabled mobility.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I prefer working with flighted birds. They have a choice and it shows how much trust they have in you when they choose to fly away from you or not.

 

[Coco's Momma]

Naturally, there are very strong opinions on both sides of the 'wing' on this one. Lots of people get annoyed at me for saying this, but when people say it is easier to 'tame' a clipped bird (as if 'tame' is a once and for all event as opposed to the process of building a relationship...), I say that it is "also easier to get your kid to do his homework if you tie him to his chair."

The objective in changing behavior is to choose the least obtrusive method that is least likely to have a detrimental affect on the relationship that we are trying to build with the bird over time. And that does not happen over night. Tieing a kid to his chair might result in more homework getting done, but it will not have a positive affect on the relationship between child and person tieing up child.

 

[patdbunny]

I think taming and flight are two separate issues.

 

[LivingFiction]

I do agree with you and I think that clipping is a very individual choice, but I still think that you are handicapping a bird by taking away it's FREEDOM. It's not meant to say it's good, bad, or indifferent, but it is a handicap. Birds are meant to BE FREE and that is what they do the most, ENJOY THEIR FREEDOM. The example of stopping your sons from running in the street is not the same as KEEPING A BIRD CAPTIVE. Birds are healthier when they ARE FREE. Their heart beats better when they are FREE, the air they breathe is circulated through their body better in FREEDOM. Everything about a bird is designed for FREEDOM. Now, if you wanted to tie your sons' legs together so they had to hobble around, it might be more similar to KEEPING A BIRD CAPTIVE.

Like I mentioned previously, I do understand that some people will need to HAVE BIRDS AS PETS for various reasons, but to say it isn't detrimental to the bird as a whole would be lying.

*Edits in CAPS

Alright, so let's agree that we are not choosing what may be best for the absolute positive best for the bird in a perfect world. I agree, but since we are dealing with an imperfect foundation, let's allow for imperfect solutions to creating the best possible situation for our feathered family members.

I did not mean to hijack this thread, it's true, the OP was referencing this practice in relation to taming. I think I was responding to the intentionally volatile word choice of mutilation, which I feel is an inappropriate use of the word. It is absolutely possible to improperly or excessively clip a birds wings, which would absolutely be a mutilation, but at mindful, purposeful choice, even one that may be limiting in a particular area, when done appropriately to the circumstances, is not a mutilation.

In regard to clipping to tame. I generally chose to clip birds that were not tame, largely because it enabled me to take better care of them. Even my very wild quaker got just as much out of cage time as the rest of the flock who were not clipped, because I didn't have to worry about her flying around and attacking anyone, or hurting herself. She did increase in her willingness to be handled, and some of that may have had to do with her dependence on me.

I think to disregard the value of clipping your budgie is an error. Birds have good memories, the fact that you established yourself as someone who would take care of your bird, and a safe person was not likely forgotten when the wings grew in. I imagine the newfound freedom was exciting, and took the place of it's desire for your attention for a time, but the relationship you established remained, even if it were expressed differently. I love my parents, but my relationship with them is very different now that I am no longer dependent on them. I'm also not running around looking for seniors to be friends with. My friendship with them is founded upon the bonds we developed while I was dependent.

And before anyone gets upset, I don't believe captive birds are bad, clearly, I'm here

The same statements could be said about raising a child in anyplace where pollution is present and they are unable to run and explore unsupervised. I don't think the lack of one's ability to provide the "perfect" environment means they shouldn't reproduce.

 

[Jally]

After working with both, I prefer the flighted. Like everyone said, it's their choice to be with you or to fly away. I kinda think along the lines of 2 people calling an animal to see which person the animal likes the best and that animal choosing you. So rewarding!

 

[ShirleyBird]

Just to clarify when I compared it go cutting hair I meant it as it grows back so its not permanent. It doesn't disfigure the bird. As to another response made abt it being natural for them to fly, ect. Isn't it also natural for them to be free? Should they not be caged?Owned at all? I mean if we want to get into what is naturally best. I just think this is a personal choice and should be respected as such. No one should make the other side feel bad or as if they are wrong for making that choice. No one is right because if that's the case we would not be owning birds at all or teaching them tricks or to talk because none of that is natural for them.

 

[amsue0222]

I read the OP to pertain to "taming" birds. I agree that when we are discussing safety issues there are far more variables to consider, and that comes down to individual bird behavior and the environment in which the bird lives. I had read stories where a bird is aggressive, and dive-bombing or attacking family members or house guests, and I would definitely support clipping to ensure the safety of everyone involved. I even agreed to clip PJ when we thought he had a virus that he could spread to the other birds (he doesn't), so there are definitely valid reasons for clipping a bird to ensure their safety and that of others, I just don't think "taming" is one of them.

I totaly agree with this statement- Having dealt with a bird that you loved very much that was attacking your children when the children were minding their own business- I clipped my Quaker for her safety and the safety of my children ( my 5 year old now has a big scar on her back from when my sweet Gabby decided that it was going to be fun to see how loud she could make a little girl scream) It was either that or have to keep her locked up in a cage all day- which I do not agree with. It does help - the bird loses some of it's audacity and courage - which sometimes can be a good thing for the longevity of the family relationship. It was much less stressful on me to have the bird clipped- She appeared happy hanging out in the livingroom with the family but was not brave enough to fly after her arch enemy (my 5 year old).