Lonnpost about progress...

[Luna3391]

Hello all. I don't know if this is where I should post, so correct me if I'm wrong!

Daxter, our new baby Sun Conure had his first vet visit a little over a week ago, just about a week after he came home (it was the earliest I could get him in due to holidays). Come to find out the poor baby had a yeast infection, and was a little underweight.

The vet is very doubtful that he was handled as mch as the breeder claimed to my husband, which is a shame, because it makes medicating him stressful for everyone! But we're working on that. It has to be done, and he goes back for a follow up next Wednesday.

we've been lucky in the fact that he eats pellet, as long as it's colorful anyway, and hasn't been tooooooooo terribly fussy with fruits and veggies. He's all for green beans, snap peas, carrots (his second fav!), jalepeno, mango (absolute fav!) and apples so far.

Zucchini and bell pepper sometimes. Habenero peppers are a sometimes. He usually tosses them but occassionally he takes a few bites before doing so.

Leafy greens are still a no, but we're trying haha!

He doesn't mind us (mostly me) in his cage to give it quick wipe downs or switch out toys, shuffling a few inches away but mostly just watching us closely. He doesn't puff up or get aggressive. A couple times he's even hopped over onto perches I'm still trying to secure! He doesn't mind when I play with his bell, and will even come over and play with the other side of it occassionally, making sure to keep it between us. He will take foods from us through the bars, and has now twice taken food from my hand while inside the cage (albeit, near the entrance)

He's tested my fingers out with his tongue a couple times, but only if I have it resting against the side of the cage, and usually only if he's in a hyper/playful mood. Otherwise he just looks at me like I'm dumb stays just an inch or two away.

We're trying now to coax him into being comfortable enough to come out of the door on his own, by placing some goodies (millet and seeds he enjoys) in a small fish at the end of his door. So far he's gotten sooooooooo close to coming out, but ends up dancing around the edge, poking his head out, then "nopeing" away haha.

He isn't super noisy, but a couple times a day he decides he wants to chat. Loudly. Which is to be expected! When he's chittering away, we encourage it by answering him. When he screams (usually when we get up to move to a different spot in the room or just because, it's discouraged and we stop talking to him/ ignore the behavior. It usually lasts about 60 seconds, but sometimes I think he likes to test our patience! Jokes on him though, noisy birds don't bother me! Ha! (On another note, if my husband is playing this star wars game on the phone, Daxter definitely tries to compete with the sudden sharp light saber noises and blaster sounds!)

My dog disappears into another room the second he gets loud. She is scared of the noises, unfortunately. But will come out and lay in her bed once he quiets down. She even lays her head in the tub of the shower and looks up at me when I'm in there like "mom, why did you bring this menace home!"


My biggest issue comes to medicine time. As he still will not let us handle him, we have to do what the vet suggests and towel him. We try and do it quick and easy, but have understandably taken a few war wounds. Neither of us blame him of course, but he HAS to take his medicine. We do it as gently as possible.


My only hope is that this won't cause him to distrust us indefinitely. Any suggestions?



Edit: OMG not 2 seconds after I posted this did the dummy finally climb out of his cage for the first time. He backs up as soon as he notices me notice him though! Pictures to follow!

 

[Luna3391]

The path to success!

 

[Luna3391]

He also has a bunch more toys coming in next week, as he's shown He's pretty accepting of whatever gets put in his cage.

 

[WendyN]

He is a pretty bird!

 

[Calpurnia]

Cute baby. I'd say don't sweat it too much. If you're good at bribery and have an otherwise nice relationship he should get over any grudges easily enough.

 

[Monica]

The vet is very doubtful that he was handled as mch as the breeder claimed to my husband, which is a shame, because it makes medicating him stressful for everyone! But we're working on that. It has to be done, and he goes back for a follow up next Wednesday.

How the chick is acting has nothing to do with how the breeder raised the bird. I've heard plenty of stories of people adopting aggressive birds, they get the birds home, and the birds are sweet as pie! Or the opposite, people take in a supposedly loving bird, but at their home, the bird is aggressive!

Birds aren't like dogs. They don't often like strangers because strangers are new. Stranger danger.

It's stressful for the chicks to go from a home they grew up in, then possibly into a store where there are a bunch of strange animals and people, then into a completely different environment with new people and possibly new pets.

What I'm reading is that he's scared and confused, which is completely normal.


As far as the meds go... can you mix them in organic fruit juice? Organic baby food? Mashed sweet potatoes? Banana? Cooked sweet potatoes? Honey? Greak yogurt?

We're trying now to coax him into being comfortable enough to come out of the door on his own, by placing some goodies (millet and seeds he enjoys) in a small fish at the end of his door. So far he's gotten sooooooooo close to coming out, but ends up dancing around the edge, poking his head out, then "nopeing" away haha.

You could be asking too much too soon.

Better to place the dish next to the door and get him used to eating there. Then open the door and have him get used to eating with the door open. Then try outside of the cage. This may take days, if not weeks, but should not be rushed.

When he screams (usually when we get up to move to a different spot in the room or just because, it's discouraged and we stop talking to him/ ignore the behavior.

Ignoring a behavior isn't necessarily the best thing to do.

Can you try telling him where you are going before you get up and as you get up?

Can you offer a treat at this time?

A foraging activity instead?


What can he do instead of screaming, and how can you encourage that alternate behavior?

 

[Luna3391]

Monica, thanks so much for taking the time to reply and for offering some advice/suggestions. I appreciate it! I've noticed a few of your replies to others, and it all seems super solid!

You could be asking too much too soon.

Better to place the dish next to the door and get him used to eating there. Then open the door and have him get used to eating with the door open. Then try outside of the cage. This may take days, if not weeks, but should not be rushed.

The only reason we started leaving the door open with the food out was because he seemed to have no problems eating, regardless of where the dishes were placed. He doesn't care if they are up by his perches, by the door, or on the floor of the cage. Food is food to him. He has been coming out now, but hasn't adventured anywhere other than standing on the door (or on the dish we placed out for him) to eat or take in the rest of the room. He watches us pretty carefully, and at first he'd back away if we looked at him, but now he stays for a bit and will chitter chat with me. If I get up for whatever reason, he'll retreat back into the cage, but otherwise, he seems content to sit there. This is fine with me, of course... I want him to be comfortable. I know it could take a long time for him to feel secure.

As far as the meds go... can you mix them in organic fruit juice? Organic baby food? Mashed sweet potatoes? Banana? Cooked sweet potatoes? Honey? Greak yogurt?

He seems to dislike anything "mushy" like that. After reading your suggestion, I tried a bit of Greek yogurt, as well as making him little birdy fruit smoothies, so to speak, and he turns his little beak up to them. He has to have the medicine every night, and we've been giving it to him Via syringe at the Vet's orders. Do you have any other idea's that might work? Going by how much he has left, he still needs the medicine for another 4 days or so.

Ignoring a behavior isn't necessarily the best thing to do.

Can you try telling him where you are going before you get up and as you get up?

Can you offer a treat at this time?

A foraging activity instead?


What can he do instead of screaming, and how can you encourage that alternate behavior?

This is where It seems like I get conflicted advice. We purchased a few books on birds/parrots, as well as a Sun conure specific book. One of them mentioned ignoring undesired screaming, and then giving positive reinforcement/a treat when he stops or moves on to a more desired activity.. A few people on here have mentioned that as well... but others have said not to. Do you have any personal suggestions that have worked for you?

I also want to stress that he isn't an overly screechy bird... I knew before hand that Sun Conures could be loud and proud and too much for some people's ear drums. Personally, I don't think he's all that loud, but as a kid, I grew up with an African Grey in the house that talked and squawked all day long with us! I also warned my husband of this as well, when we first started talking about getting a bird. He's pretty chatty for a few hours of the day, here and there, and his 'screamo' moments usually don't even last a minute.

We actually announce ourselves before coming into the room as not to startle him, because of where his cage needs to be placed to avoid heat vents in the winter. We don't want to come around the corner suddenly on him. We can try letting him know when we're about to move as well. He doesn't scream every time, mostly when he's already in a hyper state (playing with his toys or darting around his cage. He seems to enjoy hanging upside down on his rope perch and flapping as hard as he can as well.


He gets covered at night, from about 9pm, until I get up to get ready for work at 730. I always gently speak to him as I'm covering, and uncovering, and he always scoots over to the side I stand on in the mornings. He's against a wall, and I leave the back, and far side of his cage covered to give him a "corner" if he wants it. This was per advice from both the vet, and a book, but I'm open to suggestions if this seems like a bad idea.


My experience with baby birds is a bit out of the norm, I suppose. My parents bought the Grey as an egg, and made daily visits to the breeder to see him/learn how to hand feed and handle him. He's still with my parents/sister, and even though he never liked being handled by me/touched by me much, he still gets excited to see me when I visit. He knows if I'm there, we get to play the mimic game (he makes a whistle, and I imitate it. If I get it right, he bobs up and down excitedly and tries another. He makes them higher pitched/more difficult for me to mimic as he goes, and once I can't imitate the sound he gets excited and actually makes laughing sounds.) If he's in a good mood, I even get the honor of giving him a head scratch, haha.

Obviously, this is an entirely different situation, and something completely new to me, so any advice is welcomed. Especially when it comes to gaining Daxter's trust/hand training.

Thanks again!

 

[Monica]

He seems to dislike anything "mushy" like that. After reading your suggestion, I tried a bit of Greek yogurt, as well as making him little birdy fruit smoothies, so to speak, and he turns his little beak up to them. He has to have the medicine every night, and we've been giving it to him Via syringe at the Vet's orders. Do you have any other idea's that might work? Going by how much he has left, he still needs the medicine for another 4 days or so.

You can also try organic fruit juice.... or *maybe* a grape or apple? Some even do toast.

It's usually easier to train a behavior when you don't need that behavior... i.e. taking meds.

This is where It seems like I get conflicted advice. We purchased a few books on birds/parrots, as well as a Sun conure specific book. One of them mentioned ignoring undesired screaming, and then giving positive reinforcement/a treat when he stops or moves on to a more desired activity.. A few people on here have mentioned that as well... but others have said not to. Do you have any personal suggestions that have worked for you?

People say to ignore the screaming because that's all they know to do and all that they've learned and been taught to do.

Ignoring screaming can be just as bad as ignoring a bite. It could lead to learned helplessness, more aggression, or worse behavior overall.


So lets say we ignore screaming and the bird doesn't get learned helplessness. Lets say the bird screams for 15 minutes long, then goes quiet. You go in and reward bird for being quiet. Bird may have learned that they need to scream for *at least* 15 minutes to get your attention. So the next time they scream for 15 minutes, but when you don't come, they scream for a total of 20 minutes before going quiet. In you come! Okay, so if 15 minutes of screaming doesn't work, 20 minutes does! And then you might end up with a bird screaming all day long....


If you can, it's usually best to prevent or redirect undesired behavior into something more desired. A bird can't talk or whisper while they are screaming! It's an incompatible behavior. If he learns to talk, whisper, or even whistle, you can reward these behaviors over screaming! When you see him playing with a toy, walk over and reward him by praising him or giving him a treat! He may be confused at first, but can learn to play independently without relying on you all the time! (a lot of parrots don't know how to play independently...)


One thing that I've seen help is exercise!!!! I don't mean running around or playing with toys.... I mean full on flying around! (great indoor exercises!)

I mean, if you think about it, if he was a dog instead with separation anxiety and was destroying the house, what would many trainers say? (besides crate the dog when you aren't around!) The answer would be exercise and enrichment! A tired dog is a happy dog. What do we do with birds? We clip their wings and stick them in a cage!!!! People are lead to believe that a flighted parrot can't be trained, a flighted parrot is dominant, a flighted parrot would be stuck inside their cage more often than a clipped parrot, or some other ridiculous idea.... so we are then left with birds that have no adequate way to get exercise. Exercise is not only good for the body, but also for the mind. Clipped birds also tend to have less confidence than flighted birds do.


Some things to keep in mind for Daxter, since he's currently clipped!


Here's a couple of pages that I like about screaming/ignoring a behavior! (minus the out-door flight!)

Use your words: Conditioning Sam to a new environment | Learning Parrots
Living With Parrots Cage Free: Does Ignoring Really Work?



BTW, your families grey sounds like quite the hoot!

 

[Luna3391]

Just updating to let you guys know that we managed to find a way to give him his medicine without forcing it!

It's a bit silly, but it works! He wouldn't take a fruit smoothie or anything of the like, so we tried Greek yogurt. That was also a no. We tried soaking his favorite fruit and pellets with the proper dose of medicine, and at first, it seemed to work. Unfortunately, he ended up just throwing them away.

So we got creative. We soak the pellets, then cover them in a small amount of yogurt. Add just a tiny bit of Millet... And BAM, he gobbles it all up. Doesn't throw a speck away!

Vet says he's getting better, just a few more days of medicine should do it.

He's also pretty comfortable coming outside his cage now to explore. He wants to take everything in, haha. He's had a couple little adventures where hes misjudged how far a perch or rope is and ended up on the floor... Luckily he's allowing me to pick him up with a long perch, and returning him to the cage. We're gonna give it some time, then slowly start shortening the perches we use to get him started on hand training.

His new toys came in as well, and he loves all of them. I've yet to find a toy he doesn't warm up to instantly.