• Welcome to Avian Avenue! To view our forum with less advertisments please register with us.
    Memberships are free and it will just take a moment. Click here

KerBear, The Honeymoon is over.

Status
Not open for further replies.

ThatDarnBird

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
1,274
I don't really have any help to give but I wanted to say that I think your instincts are good. It's early days and like you said it's not going to be a quick fix but I think you're going about it the right way.:hug8:I hope your neighbors give you guys time to solve the problem. Is there a way to go about sound proofing the room she's in?
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
Anna, maybe you should contact the moderators and have the thread moved over to the Behavior Byway forum. This is a topic that concerns general parrot behavioral issues, and I believe that you will receive additional advice and more attention from the experts on KerBear's screaming there
I wouldn't know who to ask. I wouldn't want to bother anyone today. I am sure everyone is busy buying bird toys for the sale:p

I wouldn't know how to go about sound proofing a room, besides, it has windows. I don't think you can sound proof a room with windows?
 

BraveheartDogs

Cruising the avenue
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
11,119
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Real Name
Vicki
Sorry it took me so long to tell everyone. I didn't get home last night till after 10pm.

I know she isn't a dog. I believe having dealt with behavior problems in our foster dogs has given us a realistic view of this behavior in our parrot. There are usually no quick fixes, unfortunately. I think we would be a lot more frustrated if we didn't already know that fact.

She was quiet until he brought her into the office at the usual time and she suddenly realized I wasn't here. She got very loud and I came home for a quick break in between classes. I was a bit late for one class when I got back. Since it is the first week my instructor let it slide but he told the whole class (while looking at me) that he might hold quizzes at the beginning of class if people were late. No one looked very happy about that so going home during that time can't be a permanent solution.

She started screaming again about 30 minutes after I left. She wasn't "in the zone" ignoring everything but screaming. She was just screaming while she beat everything up. He popped in ear plugs and ignored it. I called, and I couldn't even hear him. She IS very loud. I have heard the macs and toos go at it in the rescue. She has them all beat. I never thought I would ever be able to say that. She is so quiet that you would never think she could make such sonic boom shrieks.

I sent him an email telling him that as soon as she paused for even a few seconds to plop her in the shower and give her a bath. She went to get a drink of water and he scooped her up in a towel and ran to the bathroom with her. She seemed quite suprised he said. She likes taking a bath so he let her get good and soaked. Then she went into her cage again and happily preened herself. She took a nap after that. She started calling for me around the time I came home from class on Monday. They tried giving her fruit, some new toys, her favorite TV show, but she had snapped back into "the zone" and nothing was registering to her. All she was paying attention to was the scream and listening for something or too something they couldn't hear. Once she reaches that state there is nothing you can do that snaps her out of it. After 2 hours of yelling my hubby turned off the lights, covered her early, and went into the back of the house and listened to the TV with headphones. After about 45 minutes she was quiet and went to sleep.

My friend came over to say that her co-worker had told her the bird made noise but she had no idea the bird could be that loud. Since my friend lives right next to us, and is the reason we have KerBear, they are not complaining. I think we now know the reason KerBear was plopped on my door step. There is no way a landlord would allow that screaming. Mrs. Spencer said she was walking her dog and could still hear our big bird two streets over. :scared2: She said at least we didn't have to worry about thieves. No one would want it after hearing all that. (actually, I didn't know any pets had been stolen till she mentioned it :eek:)

We are walking a fine line here. We have to try and distract and discourage the screaming behavior without giving attention for screaming and encouraging it.

This is so hard. Right now she is good as gold and not making a peep. She is just playing with her toys in her cage and being good as anyone could ask for. We are not upset with her. We are not angry at her. This is not in any way her fault. She might seem like she has always been here, but really she hasn't even been here more then just a few short weeks.

I just wish we could figure out the warning signs of her "in the zone" screaming fits so that they would be interrupted before they happen.

I think we will ignore all screaming while beating up toys. I just don't understand why my husband isn't as good as I am now. She never objected to being with him without me before school started. Then again, I have never been gone as long as I will be on Tue/Thur before either.

I just wish I knew more distraction techniques. New toys, a kong filled with sunbutter, TV and radio, and a bath only work for short periods of time (some don't work at all). Those were the things listed in Well Behaved Parrot.

I called a behavorist on Craiglist and they told me to spray her with a water bottle!:omg: I hung up. Don't anyone try and argue with me either because I won't listen to you. I refuse to punish KerBear or make her afraid of water. :mad:

If anyone has any positive distractions besides food and the ones listed above I would be really grateful.
I am feeling a bit defensive right now from having to defend her to the neighbors. She isn't a bad girl at all. She is sweet and loving as anyone could want.
First, GOOD ON YOU for not listening to someone who is calling themself a behaviorist (which I am sure they aren't) and recommending punishment. It won't work you were smart not to do it. We have all sorts of wannabe dog trainers advertising their hack services on CL, very scary. Anyone who understands behavior will never recommending punishing an animal for having anxiety. Grrrrr:mad:

I hope you are keeping a log because there is some progress.

You said she didn't scream until he brought her into the office. Good! It sounds like you have a trigger, can he not bring her into the office? Maybe that is a good place to start.

I think the bath as a reinforcer for being quiet is great AND it keeps her quiet while preening for a while.

I think that the fact that she has screaming episodes where she doesn't totally zone out is good. You are smart to watch for early signs because once the animal goes limbic (or emotional) you probably won't be able to get her back and she won't be cognitive so she won't be able to learn anyway. Keep looking for early signs.

I was thinking maybe rather than you leaving the toys your husband should add some throughout the day so new toys keep coming in. And, have your tried making foraging things like nuts stuck in coffee filters stuck in wiffle balls and things like that where they are different, interesting and highly rewarding? There is a great website called www.parrotenrichment.com that has tons of great homemade foraging toys and ideas.

Another thought, might not be a good idea, but what if you didn't interact with her at all in the morning and she just stayed covered until you left and your husband uncovered her?

Finally, I would definitely get Barbara Heidenreich's books on behavior. She is fantastic. Also, Susan Friedmans www.behaviorworks.com website has some good articles. There is also a yahoogroup called ParrotBAS that has mini lessons you can take for free. They teach people how to do behavior analysis which can help solve problems. I am just taking them for continued education but you can take them if you have a specific issue with your bird as well.

Hope this helps some. I know others will be by soon to help also!
 

GG.

Enjoy the small things
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
28,652
Location
gulf coast, alabama
Real Name
GG


I wouldn't know who to ask. I wouldn't want to bother anyone today. I am sure everyone is busy buying bird toys for the sale:p

I wouldn't know how to go about sound proofing a room, besides, it has windows. I don't think you can sound proof a room with windows?
Please know that you are never a bother and we are never too busy with anything to help you.

I moved your thread to Behavior Byway; feel free to pm me anytime you need anything:)

I have been following your thread but haven't posted, you have gotten excellent advice and there is nothing that I could add except that KerBear was dropped on an angels doorstep

:hug8:
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
anna, does this sound familiar lol?
That is the noise that she made the first night. That noise has been replaced with our contact call whistle.

He is calling, but he looks calm and aware. He knows you are there, he sees what you are doing, he is just still calling. He doesn't look wild in the eyes. She isn't like that.

She stands like that, but her head is straight out, her eyes look dilated and she just screams. The noise she makes is much much louder and more, hysterical I guess is the word I am looking for.
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
I took the dog out for a walk. A lady I don't know came out of her house and gave me a Care Bear toddler bucket. She said "Here, this is for that abused bird you took in. Just a little something from us." She patted my arm and walked inside. I remember to stammer out thank you before she disappeared. (It is below zero outside and windy so she wasn't lingering). I look inside and this is what she gave us!:faint:





Those are all things from the dollar store KerBear likes (I never thought about the Care bear /KerBear thing:p) but how did she know? I have never even talked to her before. My husband eyed me funny and said it might be poisoned:huh: I just think it was nice of them. You never can tell about people. Maybe she just wanted to sleep in tomorrow?:rolleyes:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2i9jv5s.jpg
 

TITANIS

Biking along the boulevard
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
6,408
Location
Great White North
Those are all things from the dollar store KerBear likes (I never thought about the Care bear /KerBear thing:p) but how did she know? I have never even talked to her before. My husband eyed me funny and said it might be poisoned:huh: I just think it was nice of them. You never can tell about people. Maybe she just wanted to sleep in tomorrow?:rolleyes:
That's really an odd story. Don't know what to make of it. I wouldn't give anything to KerBear coming from someone you never met before, neighbor or not. Even if their intentions are genuine, you just don't know what the items might contain or have come in contact with.
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
Titanis you sound just like my husband. I will give her a thank you note or some cookies anyway, but he doesn't want me giving her that stuff either just in case. I feel bad being so suspicious.
 

akijoy

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
3,336
Location
Atlanta area
Real Name
Monica
I'm not much help. Sam Mealy is very quiet for an amazon. She rarely screams, and only calls when talked to, and is very undemanding. Mine has two other friends to "talk" to during the day, though.

Maybe Kerbear would like another bird as company?!?!? My guys may not be bosom buddies, but they do enjoy each other.
 

TITANIS

Biking along the boulevard
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
6,408
Location
Great White North
Titanis you sound just like my husband. I will give her a thank you note or some cookies anyway, but he doesn't want me giving her that stuff either just in case. I feel bad being so suspicious.
I was debating whether to post my sentiments or not. I just find it very weird and too out of the blue. I'm looking out for your best interests and you have nothing to lose in being cautious. KerBear won't miss those items, I'm certain of that. :)
 

TITANIS

Biking along the boulevard
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
6,408
Location
Great White North
Maybe Kerbear would like another bird as company?!?!? My guys may not be bosom buddies, but they do enjoy each other.
I was thinking of the same thing earlier today, but didn't mention it. It can help a lot especially if a bird is alone for long periods, or its favorite person is gone regularly from the home. There are down sides to this not the least of which is double the expenses of owning one bird. If you can afford a second bird and have the time, space etc., it might be something to consider down the road.
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
Maybe Kerbear would like another bird as company
KerBear would need a bird close to her size. We were expecting a conure and not an amazon when we got her.

I feel guilty saying she can't have a bird friend. On the other hand, she isn't used to having one.

KerBear travels in car with us (in her parrot pak). Two large birds are more then we could comfortably handle. I think screaming birds (if the other bird picked it up) are more then my neighbors could handle.
 

Big.Green.Chicken

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Spotlight Award
Joined
12/26/09
Messages
1,695
Real Name
Anna
I caught her in the act when I got home.

Here is a pic I snapped before I left just because I happened to think she looked cute.



I go outside and walk to my friends. I could hear her screaming. I came home and the camera was still on the microwave so I snapped a few photos quick so you could see what she looks like.


She doesn't notice me.


She sees me taking pictures.



She stops screeching.

Now she is calm as can be and playing with toys again. See what I mean about her not looking the same as the other mealy when it was yelling? She doesn't look calm at all while she is screaming.
I wasn't even gone that long this time. I didn't take the car either. :confused:
 

akijoy

Rollerblading along the road
Avenue Veteran
Mayor of the Avenue
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
3,336
Location
Atlanta area
Real Name
Monica
Gee. I don't know what to say. She looks like a totally different bird from the first picture! Do you think these issues were what made the previous owners give up on her? I hope a solution can be worked out.

Have you tried a babble ball for her? Mine LOVES her babble ball, and it keeps her entertained for hours.
 
Last edited:

JLcribber

@cockatoojohn
Avenue Veteran
Celebirdy of the Month
Mayor of the Avenue
Avenue Spotlight Award
Shutterbugs' Best
Avenue Concierge
Joined
10/16/09
Messages
22,621
Location
Alberta, Canada
Real Name
John
It can take months to break a screaming habit and that's only if your consistent 100% of the time in not rewarding the behavior and getting her used to a routine that she can learn and get ti know.

It took me over a year to break Tika of his screaming behavior and I was consistent about not rewarding the behavior.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 

TITANIS

Biking along the boulevard
Joined
10/17/09
Messages
6,408
Location
Great White North
I have to admit that KerBear is stunning. Anna, do you know anything about KerBear's history in her former home? Some information about her life prior to arriving at your place might shed some light on her behavior. What John posted is true. It can take an iron-willed determination to break a habit that your bird has long ingrained.

The second pic looks to me like she's very frightened. Charlie in the other video you make reference to was probably just contact calling in Mealy fashion. KerBear's reaction here appears more of high alarm. Parrot psychology is very complex and there have been books written on their behavior in captivity. It could take some time but things will get better. :)

Monica's mentioning of the babble ball reminds me of this video...

 

Jadie

Rollerblading along the road
Joined
11/17/09
Messages
1,143
Location
Montreal, Quebec Canada
Real Name
Jade
Your right she's not calling how Charlie does...she does look really scared almost frantic looking:confused: Titanis and John have given really good info and advice. It would really help if you can find out a bit about her past. Don't feel discouraged it can be worked on, it'll take time, patience and earplugs...although I know it's hard with the neighbors involved. We're working with my ringneck right now who is a big screamer ...and has really bad separation anxiety..it's working, slowly but surely. By just not paying attention to the screaming, we don't even look at him and praising him the moment he's quiet again. It also helps to have some sort of routine. You guys seem to be doing a great job already. She is very gorgeous:heart:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top