KerBear, The Honeymoon is over.

[Big.Green.Chicken]

I started school again on Monday. I had slowly been preparing KerBear for class like we used to prepare our foster dogs. I would leave the house for increasingly longer periods of time and I would always bring back fruit from the fruit bar at the grocery store. She responded very positively to that method. She was very happy to see me and seemed excited and looked forward to my going. She knew something good was going to happen when I got home and my hubby was home while I am gone. So she isn't alone.

The only thing that I can think was different about Monday was that I left in a hurry so my energy was a bit different and I had a full book bag. She contact called to me for HOURS according to my husband. Every dog in the neighborhood was barking. There was a knock on the door about 3 hours into her contact call fit (hubby had in earplugs and a loud stereo by this point). One of our neighbors from across the street just had heart bypass surgery and their caretaker came to knock on the door to complain because their patient couldn't sleep. We needed to shut up our animal because her patient couldn't take the stress. They live across the street 3 houses down and could hear her above their TV so she must have been loud.

I heard nothing. I came home 7 hours later and as I was driving down the street it was peaceful and quiet. I walked in the door and KerBear cried out "HELLOOOO" and I told her hello and said I missed her and gave her the fruit. She played quietly all evening. The same thing happened yesterday. I didn't leave in a hurry yesterday. I gave her new toys, I stuffed in foraging toys with her favorite brazil nuts, and I calmly and slowly walked out the door. I called out that I would see her later.
She screamed and tore her whole cage apart. She literally cracked or dismantled acrylic, bullet proof, supposedly macaw proof toys, screamed and beat around what she couldn't destroy (mostly the hanging metal chains the toys were attached. She removed all the nuts and bolts and they were everywhere. I found it a bit hard to believe that she would have been as bad as my husband claimed and so perfect with me. The evidence of her cage when I came home proved otherwise. The dog starts looking anxiously for me at the door as the same time KerBear shuts up so my husband thinks they hear the car.

I begged and cried family problems and transfered all of my classes to Tuesday and Thursday except one class I have to take at night Fri. So now I am gone from 8am to 10pm tue/thur but home every other day. My night class she will just go to bed half an hour earlier. I am going to start making her go to bed 10 minutes earlier tonight and then 20 tomorrow, and then 30 Fri.

I don't know what else to do everyone. She won't play with or acknowledge my husband. She is fixated on calling for me for hours and then she just alternately calls and trashes her cage and toys. When I get home she is perfect as can be. I left today like I was going to class and came back after two hours. I didn't give her anything special and I just told her good bye. I waited up the street to see if she would start screaming but she never did. So I drove off to the library, then went to the store and got her some fruit and got dryer sheets and came home.

I tried all the distractions it listed in "The Well Behaved Parrot" and they didn't work.

I apologize for the long post. Can anyone shed some light on this or help me?

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Is she starting the calling immediately after you leave? When you have been leaving her alone for increasing periods was your husband home? I would continue practicing the leaving for increasing periods when you off from work. Is she out the whole time when you are home? Maybe build up more time where she isn't entertained but is doing her own thing. Also, I would not load her up with fruit when you get home because then you are making your return even more reinforcing. I would give her all the great fruit when you leave so that hopefully she can learn to look forward to that when you are gone. Did your husband try and work with her at all? Like making other noises or whistles and seeing if she responded that way? I would think that if the stereo was cranked that could have made the screaming continue since it was probably very loud and no one was acknowledging her. I think that giving her lots to forage with and play with was really smart.

Oh, and I am sure that others who have dealt with this will be here to help you soon

 

[Big.Green.Chicken]

Thank you, I will try and answer all your questions. I can't express what it means to me that I can come here and get help and support.


Is she starting the calling immediately after you leave? When you have been leaving her alone for increasing periods was your husband home? I would continue practicing the leaving for increasing periods when you off from work. Is she out the whole time when you are home?

My husband works from home. He is always here. She has slowly been spending increasing periods of time in her new large cage. She does spend hours out on her playgym in our office above my desk. My husband tried to get her to step up on the basket at the regular time. It was like she was "In the zone" he said and she was just concentrating on calling and listening. She didn't see anything else. If she was a dog I would say this was separation anxiety and that she needed something to distract and redirect her behavior. That is what I was trying to do with the food and toys before I left.

Did your husband try and work with her at all? Like making other noises or whistles and seeing if she responded that way? I would think that if the stereo was cranked that could have made the screaming continue since it was probably very loud and no one was acknowledging her. I think that giving her lots to forage with and play with was really smart.



Yes. It was about 10 minutes after I left that she suddenly started screaming. At first she would pause and listen and he would do our little whistle at her. (We have been starting to teach her our own personal contact call so she wouldn't ever learn to scream for attention. She normally uses it. Other then the fish episode she hasn't screamed) She got increasingly louder and more frantic until by the time an hour passed she was screaming non-stop. He tried to get her to step up, eat, anything. She just acted like she couldn't even see him. She just stood there screaming. He decided he might be encouraging the behavior by giving her attention so at 1.5 hours he put in earplugs, at 2 hours he walked outside. All the dogs were barking and there are other birds in the neighborhood. He said he thought he heard conures screaming. He turned the stereo up at 3 hours with some of her favorite music to try and distract her. No reaction. He then turned on music he liked to help relax him. The neighbors were complaining. The kids had started coming home from school and our neighbors started coming home from work. It was obvious the loud noises making the dogs bark were coming from our house. People won't complain about loud music until 10pm, but they will complain about barking dogs and screaming birds. Unfortunately, our stereo can't cover up her yells according to him.

Yesterday she started yelling at the same time, but after 3 hours of screaming she started beating up her toys very loudly as she alternated calling...beat up a toy...call...destroy something...call loudly...knock over the lamp with a piece of acrylic macaw bell..scream for 5 minutes then destroy something for 20 minutes. My husband said it was better then her constant screaming. When you got a break from the yelling your nerves had a chance to relax a bit before her next match. If you knew you were going to get a break you were not tempted to tape her beak shut (of COURSE he was kidding when he said that, and he would NEVER advocate doing such a thing or do it himself, he was just frustrated by that point to anyone who might be wondering!)

 

[BraveheartDogs]

That's good, then the screaming went down some yesterday with lots of toys to beat up and destroy. I think you should continue to leave lots for her to do like you did. I'll bet it will be even better the next time.

 

[Archiesmom]

Wow, that sounds a little bit...crazy. Her vocal capacity must be quite impressive. Your poor husband lol. I hope you can get something figured out with her...when Ella is screaming for Paul, I either try to ignore the scream, or answer her contact call for a few mins until she gets distracted by something else.

 

[lamagdalena]

that does sound crazy! or either your neighbors were exaggerating. My sunny Tequila when she does her loud call I can hear her outside but very muffled, nothing to disrupt the neighbors over. Or do you live in town homes perchance?

Poor Kerbear she must be worried about you when your gone. I have no advice

 

[ThatDarnBird]

I don't know much about anything. lol Could you tape your personal contact call for her so your husband can play it now and again? She needs to get used to your absence but maybe that little comfort would help her do that.

 

[BamaBirdMom]

One good point Vicki made is to reinforce your leaving more than when you return. It sounds like you've really thought through this and you're in the right track to modify her behavior. If she knows that she gets good stuff when you leave like new food and toys it will help. I have a poodle with a really bad case of separation anxiety, so I've been through this. One thing I can add is to make sure when you return not to show her attention right away. Enter quietly, respond when she calls to you, but very calmly. Don't make a beeline right for her, but go through your ritual, like putting your things away and checking the mail,etc. Be casual, and then 'notice' her. 'oh, by the way, high there, Ker-Bear'! She won't think that you're coming back just for her.
Has your husband tried covering her cage
with a dark cloth when she screams? If his timing is good, he could reinforce her quiet times by removing the cover, and
popping it back on if she gets loud.

 

[JLcribber]

How much time do you spend with her before you leave. Try filling that attention tank more before you leave so she doesn't have to wait all day before getting that attention. Get up earlier than you have to if that's what it takes.

I agree that you need to keep up that alone time whether you are home or not. If there are days you spend all day with her you are "spoiling" her in essence that needs to be undone come the days you need to leave again. Keep that schedule as consistent as possible. That means 7 days a week. Not 5. JMO

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I agree that you need to keep up that alone time whether you are home or not. If there are days you spend all day with her you are "spoiling" her in essence that needs to be undone come the days you need to leave again. Keep that schedule as consistent as possible. That means 7 days a week. Not 5. JMO

That's what I was thinking too. More on her own time even when they are there.

 

[Big.Green.Chicken]

I don't know much about anything. lol Could you tape your personal contact call for her so your husband can play it now and again? She needs to get used to your absence but maybe that little comfort would help her do that

I hadn't thought of that. We are not supposed to use cell phones in the building, but I could try and find a few minutes to go outside between classes as well.

That's what I was thinking too. More on her own time even when they are there.

We thought that we could just follow the same schedule as always. We alternate who normally lets her out and brings her into her gym. We didn't think my not being here would change that.

I am beginning to wonder if this screaming "in the zone" thing might be how she ended up here in the first place?

 

[Brigidt36]

Would it be possible to video tape her screaming and destroying her toys? And time her screaming fits and the time in between them to see if they start to lessen. I agree you shouldn't go straight to her when you come home from school. Prolong it a bit before you notice her. What about leaving her out on her playstand with your hubby after you leave. If she starts to scream she can be told 'no' and put back in her cage, getting her out again after she stops the screaming and destroying toys. Put her back each time she throws a fit. Just throwing ideas out there. I have luckily never experienced this problem (or if my birds do this while I'm at work, no neighbors have come over or called to complain).

 

[Sharpie]

Hang in there. KerBear has had one heck of a month already and all of the sudden you're going back to school. Her last home abandoned her and never came back, and you're leaving for long periods now. For better or worse, parrots, especially large ones like Amazons are smart and you're not going to fool her in any way. Training is training, but they're not dogs. Give her some time, she'll learn that you are coming back and settle back down. Keep up with the destroyable toys and distractions!

 

[Big.Green.Chicken]

OK everyone. I delayed going to class this morning till the very last minute. She has a cage full of new toys and some food but she is still a bit grumpy. She wasn't ready to wake up and have me messing with her yet. Thank heavens I had to many toys stored up from Bird.com's sales and that I had toy parts for large birds so I could make her a ton of new stuff. My Mom told me that I might try going out a different door. We have 3 doors in this house, so why go out the door right in front of her that bothers her? Tell her good bye then go out a different door. I tell her good bye and be right back when I take out the trash and stuff out another door. Here goes everyone, I hope this works, or that she is better. I really don't want all my neighbors to start hating me. Even more I don't want KerBear stressed out like she has been. Screaming like that can't be good for her. My friend suggested taking her with me once just to walk her around so she can see where I go. I don't know how well that would go over though.

Thanks for the support. I am going to go sneak out the door since I already said bye but am still in the house.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

OK everyone. I delayed going to class this morning till the very last minute. She has a cage full of new toys and some food but she is still a bit grumpy. She wasn't ready to wake up and have me messing with her yet. Thank heavens I had to many toys stored up from Bird.com's sales and that I had toy parts for large birds so I could make her a ton of new stuff. My Mom told me that I might try going out a different door. We have 3 doors in this house, so why go out the door right in front of her that bothers her? Tell her good bye then go out a different door. I tell her good bye and be right back when I take out the trash and stuff out another door. Here goes everyone, I hope this works, or that she is better. I really don't want all my neighbors to start hating me. Even more I don't want KerBear stressed out like she has been. Screaming like that can't be good for her. My friend suggested taking her with me once just to walk her around so she can see where I go. I don't know how well that would go over though.

Thanks for the support. I am going to go sneak out the door since I already said bye but am still in the house.

You might let your neighbors know that you are working on it. Make sure you record ANY progress. It might be small at first, but that's ok, every time she has longer periods of quiet or less screaming are steps in the right direction. Can't wait to hear from you later on.

 

[Sharpie]

How did it go today?

 

[BraveheartDogs]

How did it go today?

I am dying to know too!

 

[Babybreau]

me too!!

 

[Big.Green.Chicken]

Sorry it took me so long to tell everyone. I didn't get home last night till after 10pm.

I know she isn't a dog. I believe having dealt with behavior problems in our foster dogs has given us a realistic view of this behavior in our parrot. There are usually no quick fixes, unfortunately. I think we would be a lot more frustrated if we didn't already know that fact.

She was quiet until he brought her into the office at the usual time and she suddenly realized I wasn't here. She got very loud and I came home for a quick break in between classes. I was a bit late for one class when I got back. Since it is the first week my instructor let it slide but he told the whole class (while looking at me) that he might hold quizzes at the beginning of class if people were late. No one looked very happy about that so going home during that time can't be a permanent solution.

She started screaming again about 30 minutes after I left. She wasn't "in the zone" ignoring everything but screaming. She was just screaming while she beat everything up. He popped in ear plugs and ignored it. I called, and I couldn't even hear him. She IS very loud. I have heard the macs and toos go at it in the rescue. She has them all beat. I never thought I would ever be able to say that. She is so quiet that you would never think she could make such sonic boom shrieks.

I sent him an email telling him that as soon as she paused for even a few seconds to plop her in the shower and give her a bath. She went to get a drink of water and he scooped her up in a towel and ran to the bathroom with her. She seemed quite suprised he said. She likes taking a bath so he let her get good and soaked. Then she went into her cage again and happily preened herself. She took a nap after that. She started calling for me around the time I came home from class on Monday. They tried giving her fruit, some new toys, her favorite TV show, but she had snapped back into "the zone" and nothing was registering to her. All she was paying attention to was the scream and listening for something or too something they couldn't hear. Once she reaches that state there is nothing you can do that snaps her out of it. After 2 hours of yelling my hubby turned off the lights, covered her early, and went into the back of the house and listened to the TV with headphones. After about 45 minutes she was quiet and went to sleep.

My friend came over to say that her co-worker had told her the bird made noise but she had no idea the bird could be that loud. Since my friend lives right next to us, and is the reason we have KerBear, they are not complaining. I think we now know the reason KerBear was plopped on my door step. There is no way a landlord would allow that screaming. Mrs. Spencer said she was walking her dog and could still hear our big bird two streets over. She said at least we didn't have to worry about thieves. No one would want it after hearing all that. (actually, I didn't know any pets had been stolen till she mentioned it )

We are walking a fine line here. We have to try and distract and discourage the screaming behavior without giving attention for screaming and encouraging it.

This is so hard. Right now she is good as gold and not making a peep. She is just playing with her toys in her cage and being good as anyone could ask for. We are not upset with her. We are not angry at her. This is not in any way her fault. She might seem like she has always been here, but really she hasn't even been here more then just a few short weeks.

I just wish we could figure out the warning signs of her "in the zone" screaming fits so that they would be interrupted before they happen.

I think we will ignore all screaming while beating up toys. I just don't understand why my husband isn't as good as I am now. She never objected to being with him without me before school started. Then again, I have never been gone as long as I will be on Tue/Thur before either.

I just wish I knew more distraction techniques. New toys, a kong filled with sunbutter, TV and radio, and a bath only work for short periods of time (some don't work at all). Those were the things listed in Well Behaved Parrot.

I called a behavorist on Craiglist and they told me to spray her with a water bottle! I hung up. Don't anyone try and argue with me either because I won't listen to you. I refuse to punish KerBear or make her afraid of water.

If anyone has any positive distractions besides food and the ones listed above I would be really grateful.
I am feeling a bit defensive right now from having to defend her to the neighbors. She isn't a bad girl at all. She is sweet and loving as anyone could want.

 

[TITANIS]

Anna, maybe you should contact the moderators and have the thread moved over to the Behavior Byway forum. This is a topic that concerns general parrot behavioral issues, and I believe that you will receive additional advice and more attention from the experts on KerBear's screaming there.