Incredibly Aggressive Conure. Help? (Sad update post # 102)

[sootling]

@Zara , @Ripshod

 

[EgoLobster]

Can u talk to ur parents because on this case it seems like ur sister seems very bent on keeping things as is, why did she get the conure to begin with? And what’s his name?

I have but they say it’s not really my business and that they’ll step in if they’re worried the bird is in genuine danger.
She got the conure from a love of birds. She’s very fond of them. We’ve owned parakeets before and she did have Ari, who died. She has 2 more parakeets right now she’s breeding, Tessaract and Jellybean, and then there’s the conure, Sassafras.
She always wanted a parrot, more specifically what I believe is called a ringneck and one called a hyacinth macaw? But she wanted a conure to begin with because of JaidenAnimations, who has a conure as well. She is very informed with birds and what happened with Ari happened before she studied to get a conure.
She has assured me the snuggle hut is ‘safe’ and that we’ve had it for 2 years now with No issues.
im doing all I can to convince her but she’s not listening to me. I can maybe convince her on the snuggle hut, is there anything else I should try to convince her to do to lower his aggression?

 

[EgoLobster]

I’m going to try to get more detailed photos of the cage and surrounding area.

 

[MR. Mango]

Take him out more, because 1hr is a relatively low time for a conure and provide foraging toys, tho I have know birds who completely loose all aggression after losing the tent but ig it’s her choice and she can’t be forced

 

[sootling]

toys and training to keep him happy

 

[MR. Mango]

Plus I don’t recommend breeding parrots, there’s a lot that can go wrong even with experienced breeders @Zara @Macawnutz @BrianB

 

[EgoLobster]

Better photos from my phone, including one of Sassy who was quick to bang his beak against the bars when I approached, plus the breeding cage and regular cage for the Parakeets

 

[Shezbug]

Please do not post pictures of a bird or set up that is not yours unless you have permission to do so- a description is fine.

Can you tell your parents that you and many others feel and believe that animal cruelty and or neglect under their roof is the business of all who live in the house and ask them to help you help your sister make this situation better.

The bird needs a regularly cleaned cage (once a week is not enough for good health), fresh water at least once a day, appropriate toys, and only safe items in their environment.

I have my fingers crossed that you can make some changes for this poor bird that benefit both him and your sister. The behaviour being described is very possibly being exaggerated by the happy hut- which are serious hormone triggers as well as being one of the most deadly bird toys that greedy non caring toy companies sell a tonne of because little fluffy birdies look so cute in a mini tent! Go figure

 

[EgoLobster]

Please do not post pictures of a bird or set up that is not yours unless you have permission to do so- a description is fine.

Can you tell your parents that you and many others feel and believe that animal cruelty and or neglect under their roof is the business of all who live in the house and ask them to help you help your sister make this situation better.

The bird needs a regularly cleaned cage (once a week is not enough for good health), fresh water at least once a day, appropriate toys, and only safe items in their environment.

I have my fingers crossed that you can make some changes for this poor bird that benefit both him and your sister. The behaviour being described is very possibly being exaggerated by the happy hut- which are serious hormone triggers as well as being one of the most deadly bird toys that greedy non caring toy companies sell a tonne of because little fluffy birdies look so cute in a mini tent! Go figure

i gotcha. Sorry.

I talked to my mother and she shook her head and said to talk to my sister about it. She doesn’t want anything to do with the bird.

how often does Sassy’s cage need cleaning?

Ive talked to my sister about the happy hut and even after showing her the sites and pictures she called it “a lot of bs“ and said that the hut is perfectly safe and nobody talking about it has any credentials.

I am willing to give out my discord tag if that’s allowed and pull people into a group to talk with my sister on discord, because I don’t think relaying this info is working. I think someone needs to tell her one on one. She said people who own macaws and budgies “don’t understand” that things are different for conures and that you need to own a conure to know what you’re talking about. Even then, I have a feeling you’d need serious credentials in the bird field to get through to her.

she doesn’t know this thread exists and would not be kind if she knew it did. I’m posting it because I’m genuinely worried for Sassy’s health.

 

[Shezbug]

I don’t think chasing your sister onto a discord server will be appropriate nor helpful.

I am sorry she feels she can’t learn anything from others- most of us here will admit we don’t know everything and we are also happy to admit we learn new things all the time from all sorts of people including other bird owners new and old.
If she knows everything already or more than anyone here does (in her mind and heart) then nothing that any of us have to say will change her mind as she’s not open to learning anything new as it will mean she’s been wrong about other things.
I just seriously hope she’s one of the lucky owners who have no physical injuries from the happy hut.
Would she be open to you spending more time providing what the bird should have? That may be something she will allow if it means she can play video games for longer and n mg sure laugh at you for getting harassed by her bird.
My birds and most other peoples birds get their cages cleaned daily as well as clean water and fresh food daily, out of cage time and interactions are also daily.

If she won’t join here and be open to learning new things then maybe you can stay and provide the things she’s not? I can see that you’re posting as the situation is one you feel is wrong and can bettered- you can make some positive differences for the bird if you can manage a way around your sister

 

[Shezbug]

@EgoLobster i think you’ll find getting people to contact or chat to your sister in discord about something she’d rather avoid could be as against their terms and conditions as it is against AA’s to recruit people from here.
It’s a crappy spot you’re in but let’s see if we can offer you some advice on things you could possibly do to better the situation
Your heart is in the right place!

 

[EgoLobster]

@EgoLobster i think you’ll find getting people to contact or chat to your sister in discord about something she’d rather avoid could be as against their terms and conditions as it is against AA’s to recruit people from here.
It’s a crappy spot you’re in but let’s see if we can offer you some advice on things you could possibly do to better the situation
Your heart is in the right place!

I understand that, my bad. I didnt know.
I agree, any advice y'all have is very welcome. I want to make sure Sassy is safe and happy.

 

[MR. Mango]

I have a conure if that counts as credentials and the pictures I sent were from vet offices and the link was from a very well known bird trainer/“experts” website

 

[sootling]

I have a conure if that counts as credentials and the pictures I sent were from vet offices and the link was from a very well known bird trainer/“experts” website

I can vouch for the “expert” i learned almost everything, from training, to the right diet from them

 

[sootling]

@EgoLobster
Your heart is in the right place!

Yes

 

[Pat H]

@Tazlima

Vet says he’s healthy ): his quiet spot is his cage. I dont know if he’s clipped but he is able to fly up to windows that are at eye-level for us and look outside. We have a towel we drape over his cage at 9 every night and then take it off in the morning. He stays in his cage mostly. I’ll try to ask my sister for a picture later of his cage but that’s his safe spot. No matter where he is he’s aggressive. If he’s in his cage, he shrieks and bangs his head against the cage. if he’s out, he used to be a lot calmer around my sister but is now biting everyone and won’t stop.

When Sassy was little she used to let him figure things out on his own, just letting him explore and enjoy his freedom. He liked being on her bed a lot with her, and looking at her phone. They cuddled a lot, and I do remember her being taught to do step up training by pushing on his belly at first but learned it wasn’t a great option and instead let him choose when to hop onto her.

Nobody annoyed or frightened Sassy. We were very careful with him.

@BirbOwner

Thank you for all the tips! We’ve tried training in more neutral territories and my sister would instruct us not to react when bitten. As a matter of fact, Sassy began to mimic whenever we’d cry out in pain, then bite us again before that.

My sister will sometimes open his cage door and let him do whatever he felt like, and the first thing he’d do is fly out and start attacking us. He never used to be this way. He was always somewhat unhappy when I was there but never flew at me and started attacking me or her before.

She did used to hand-feed sassy various fruits and veggies, but he’s stopped accepting those from our hands and will just attack instead.

I‘ll rely all this to her in the hopes that maybe we can try something again for a better result!

@MR. Mango

Me and my sister don’t particularly have a fantastic relationship so i only have an older video of Sassy as she doesn’t like pictures being taken of him anymore. It’s on IFunny but it’s got a pretty clear view of the top of his cage and I’m whistling to him and he’s bobbing his head with the tune. He used to do this with me a lot.
It’s a lot larger than what it appears in the video, you could probably fit a scarlet macaw and a half in there (size reference. Not sure the actual size of the cage in standard terms.)

Sassy the Green-Cheek/Black-Cap hybrid Conure! - )

Sassy the Green-Cheek/Black-Cap hybrid Conure!

ifunny.co

Video link to me interacting with Sassy. He has lots of toys, a few perches, and a sleeping hut in his cage as well as his food dish and water tube.

Good sized cage for Sassy [green cheek conure]-- NO WHERE NEAR BIG ENOUGH for a Scarlet and a half... the appropriate size for a macaw would be at least 3'Dx5'Wx5'H... Just my opinion tho...

 

[Sylvi_]

In regards to educating your sister on sleeping huts, here’s a popular video where the dangers are discussed at around the 10 minute mark.
Particularly with regards to Sassy’s aggression, the hut may be exasperating the problem.

Like others have said - your heart is truly in the right place here but if she’s not open to learning how to improve his care, you may be talking to a brick wall.

Some people, especially younger, believe they have the right answer to any question and couldn’t be misinformed.
Unfortunately that doesn’t bode well for the younger person or any animals they have under their care, as constant learning is part of the job description and a fact of life.

Our animal’s rely on us for more than just basic care to keep them alive like food and water, they deserve the opportunity to blossom and thrive - with daily stimulation and environmental enrichment.
I’d start with adding a wider variety of toys to keep Sassy busy and happier. Softer materials are great for green cheeks!

Examples of some materials are balsa, thin pine, vine and finger traps or seagrass. Other popular toy options for conures are safe stainless steel bells, swings and foraging wheels.
Conures are very playful by nature and really do require a lot. And a busy beak is a happy beak!

 

[Tazlima]

Can you press the issue of the water bowl? Yes, the bird was bathing in it, but that's a GOOD thing. It means the water bowl doubled as a toy, and bathing is a great activity for birds. They get to splash around and play, and afterward they spend a lot of time preening until they're dry, and THEN they're usually tuckered out and ready for a nap. Loads of fun and physical/mental stimulation for the low-low price of a bit of water. If splashing is an issue, just put a towel around the cage to catch the excess.

Did the increased aggression start around the time the bowl was removed? The change would certainly lead to increased boredom, which can contribute to negative behavior. Even if the change didn't cause or worsen the problem, you can frame it that way to your sister.

It sounds like you're at a point with her where any suggestions coming from your quarter will just be ignored because "she knows more than you," and she's clearly defensive. I find in these situations, it can be helpful this point now, so you may have more luck if you frame it as a question and let her draw her own conclusions.

"Hey, Sis. I was just thinking. When did Sassy's behavior start to get worse?"

XYZ Answer.

"Did anything change around that time?"

Let her think of things, and really listen to her answer. She may have some good insights.

Then, as if it just crossed your mind. "Wasn't that around the time you changed the water bowl to the bottle? Do you think she misses the bowl? She did seem to like playing in it."

If she's receptive to this idea, then you might push a bit more with, "it couldn't hurt to switch it back for a while and see if things get better. At this point, any change would have to be an improvement."

Her resistance to making changes to try to solve the problem could stem from four sources (or some combination thereof).

1) she's content with how things are. - I really don't think that's it. You say she tried a bunch of different things and she's gone to the trouble of doing some research. She does seem to want what's best for her birds... she just doesn't seem to want to put in the required work.

2) She's frustrated - it sounds like she has sought answers and tried things and not had any luck, which is incredibly frustrating and disheartening when you just want your bird to be happy.

3) She's ashamed. Yes, she's neglecting her bird, but she doesn't want to admit it, because that reflects on her character, or

4) She wants to be perceived as an authority, or at least an equal, and feels like your attempts to help mean you think she's incapable of doing it herself. (15 is a tough age - you have good ideas and thoughts, and nobody will listen because you're "just a kid.").

I feel like you need to have a very gentle talk with her about what she wants for her bird. She obviously cares, and she's tried a lot of things and still failed, and that has to be so disheartening. Does that mean she's giving up? Or will she dive back in and try again?

She also needs to learn that there's no shame in accepting help. Even the wisest experts need advice sometimes, and improvement is a lifelong process. As Maya Angelou said, "I did then what I knew to do. Now that I know better, I do better."

She needs to know that you're there not as a critic, but as an ally and supporter, who shares her goals and wants to help.

 

[BrianB]

Sorry to be blunt, but this sounds like a mess in many ways. First off, the sleeping huts ARE dangerous. That's not to say that some birds can't have them and never have an issue with them. A friend and customer at the bird store I work at lost a bird recently because of one. It was his daughter's bird and they brought her in for grooming. The groomer mentioned that she was a little too thin and she needed to see a vet. They scheduled the vet appointment for a few days out, but the bird died before the appointment. When examined by the vet, it had a ball of string that had clogged the crop and was preventing food from getting through. She had been pulling threads from the back of the sleeping hut and eating them. It was out of the line of sight and no one could see it. The bird slowly starved to death because of it. When I checked mine, it was fine, but I got rid of it anyway.

Be careful of towels thrown over the cage. I know it's convenient, but it's also deadly. I had a young green cheek that was in a utility cage while it was waiting for test results. It was under an air vent so to keep it from getting chilled I put a towel over the top of the cage to block the draft and went to run an errand. In the 30 minutes or so I was gone, this bird pulled out a single thread, got it wrapped around its neck, and panicked. When I came back it was dead. Now I prefer not to cover the cages and I closed the air vent instead.

As for your sister not being willing to clean the cage, well, it says a lot. Cages have to be cleaned regularly. Dropped food attracts insects, and can quickly get moldy. If she's not willing to do regular cleaning on a small conure cage, then she will never be able to provide a good environment for her dream hyacinth macaw. If she can't handle a green cheek that is frustrated and grumpy, then imagine how an unhappy macaw will be in that environment.

After reading the whole thread, my opinion is that the best thing for the bird would be to rehome it. I don't believe the bird is thriving in the current environment, and your sister is unwilling to change. For the bird's sake, it's best if it were to move on to new owners.

 

[MR. Mango]

could someone also address the issue of her trying to breed the budgies?