In your opinion, are some birds smarter then others?

[Lanka]

It just popped on my mind out of no where… obviously i know a macaw is going to be smarter than a budgie.. but for example can there be a significant difference in intelligence between two birds of same species? Or are generally some similar size species more intelligent then the other? Are for example cockatiels more intelligent than budgies, or love birds? Sometimes i see a photo of a bird and it just looks smart.. and some look, well, not so smart budgies and conures look smarter than cockatiels… i know it is a weird question but just wondering from your experience if you own multiple birds.

 

[fashionfobie]

Hello Lanka

I think it is risky to list different species against each other. I disagree with using intelligence as way to categorise species. There are problems with capabilities ethics for a similar reason. Macaws are from different climates than budgies and they are better at different kinds of problems. Budgies live in some of the toughest climate in the world, they use their social skills and team work to problem solve. Macaws navigate complex forests and cliffs and know how to integrate with varying family groups. Chickens likewise are very socially complex and use their skills to navigate the forest floor and tell their friends about dangerous predators. I think opposed to worrying about intelligence, consider the impressive way each species has come to find their way in the world. Size is definitely not a factor for intelligence. I would say that between birds in my own flock their are some with different skills. As example I have two parrotlets, one much more talented at social engagement and making friendships whilst the other is a little braver and likely to take risks. They are both parrotlets but have distinct personalities.

I know this wasn't the response you were after but I think we are at a point where we must reevaluate how we look at other species, as not one is more important than the other.

 

[Shezbug]

I think it really depends on what the bird has experienced as to how intelligent it comes across to us. I also think we have an idea about how a smarter bird may appear or react to something.
I have three different species all with very different life experiences and as dopey as any of them may come across at times (cos they all have their moments just as I do) they all honestly amaze me with the things they do that definitely show intelligence- an example:- I thought my SC2 was seriously extra dumb for quite some time but it turns out I’m the real dummy… I was positive he was sitting on his bowl (stopping me from topping it up with his food) and biting at me because he simply dislikes me but I worked out this week that he’s doing it hoping I will touch him…. I’ve learned if I give him a very careful quick neck scratch (because he is still lining me up) he will happily step off his bowl for me when I ask and let me fill it without him trying to bite me. I think he has shown clear intelligent communication that I missed!

 

[Tazlima]

Individuals are individuals. Just like humans, no two birds are identical. Different individual birds of the same species can have vastly different physical, intellectual, and emotional strengths. Some are more athletic than others, some better at keeping their cool in stressful situations, some more adventurous, some better at communication, some learn faster or retain knowledge longer, some are silly, others more dignified, some enjoy a lifetime of excellent health while others seem to have every malady under the sun, and on and on and on.

Their innate abilities may be stunted or enhanced depending on their environment, and every bird has something wonderful to offer, but the raw material... that's a little different for everybody.

 

[Zara]

Sometimes i see a photo of a bird and it just looks smart.. and some look, well, not so smart budgies and conures look smarter than cockatiels…

I would like to know how an animal ¨looks smart¨ - this in itself is not a smart opinion.

 

[Keetie!]

A very wise birdkeeper instructed me to think like a bird, instead of a human. If you step back and see what our feathered babies have to face in a home...I would be apprehensive, scared at loud noises etc. All my budgies had different likes and dislikes. Birds are so amazing to me. Hopefully, I have one soon!

 

[Momof3litt]

How are you measuring "intelligence" to be able to say that a macaw is more intelligent than a budgie? Problem solving? Trainability? Flexibility? Emotional intelligence? To evaluate an animal's intelligence against human characteristics is already introducing a bias. Humans are not even good at measuring our own intelligence, as the measurement of human intelligence has always been biased towards people who are better at taking intelligence tests, and not actually people who are more intelligent.

A budgie is perfectly designed to live in the budgie's environment. A macaw is designed for its own environment. Both species can be trained by humans to do amazing things they don't do in the wild, which means that they have been able to learn to communicate with an alien species. As with any species, different individuals have different skills. My budgies will go on exploratory forays to my 3rd floor and then seem to get "stuck" there when evening falls. Are they just dumb or bad at navigation? Someone could interpret it that way. However, if you look at it like a bird, you see that to get back downstairs, they would have to enter what must appear to them as a dark cave (the stairwell) which may or may not have an exit (it has a turn, so that can't see the room at the end). This would be a dangerous circumstance for a small bird, especially alone. Any flock member worth their salt would make the "smart" choice and roost in the highest available space until morning. This is exactly what they choose to do. Would a macaw choose differently? Why? What calculations led to that decision?

Budgies can perform equally amazing "tricks" to macaws when trained by humans to do so, but if we are using that as a measure of intelligence, then we are missing out on so so much more that makes them each the birds that they are.

 

[Lanka]

I think it really depends on what the bird has experienced as to how intelligent it comes across to us. I also think we have an idea about how a smarter bird may appear or react to something.
I have three different species all with very different life experiences and as dopey as any of them may come across at times (cos they all have their moments just as I do) they all honestly amaze me with the things they do that definitely show intelligence- an example:- I thought my SC2 was seriously extra dumb for quite some time but it turns out I’m the real dummy… I was positive he was sitting on his bowl (stopping me from topping it up with his food) and biting at me because he simply dislikes me but I worked out this week that he’s doing it hoping I will touch him…. I’ve learned if I give him a very careful quick neck scratch (because he is still lining me up) he will happily step off his bowl for me when I ask and let me fill it without him trying to bite me. I think he has shown clear intelligent communication that I missed!

I really do like this answer and can see how what the bird experienced before reflects on how we perceive them , intelligence wise.

 

[Lanka]

I would like to know how an animal ¨looks smart¨ - this in itself is not a smart opinion.

Well same as people do, you can tell most people , it has been scientifically proven thta you can tell the intelligence of an individual from looking into their eyes. And that had never failed me. When i hire a new person, the first impression i have regarding their intelligence just from looking at their expression always proved to be true. Plus if you add some observing…

 

[FeatheredM]

I'm going to have to Say yes, i've got two bonded budgies and i can tell My sprinkles is alot smarter(no offence Quierido) she caught on to training much more faster, she even learned to step up by watching me train Quierido! But it deos not make her more special, just more different. It's not just in training, it's in other stuff to. But Quierido has got some special traits sprinkles deosn't. If you are comparing speices by speices though, i don't think some are smarter than others

 

[Dona]

I had a unrelated pair of caiques. It was so fun to compare them, same age, from same breeder. Night and day. My female was far more inquisitive and nervy. She checked out everything and could pick the lock of their cage. But she never learned any words and her trick whistles were very slow and a little off key. My male was sweet and easy going, following his girl where ever she went, but he could speak and his trick whistles were clear and in context. Who was smarter? No idea, but they did concentrate on different skills.

 

[tka]

When i hire a new person, the first impression i have regarding their intelligence just from looking at their expression always proved to be true. Plus if you add some observing…

That approach leaves you wide open to unconscious bias and if you admit to hiring based on that, any reputable company will send you to HR so fast your head would spin.

Have you understood the issues raised here?

1) As a humans, we have a poor insight into avian intelligence. We try to judge them by human standards rather than recognising the way that they are adapted to figuring out how to survive as a bird. The simple actions of take off, flight and landing involve far more mental calculations than you or I are capable of making. A flighted bird is capable of changing direction and height mid-flight, swerving rapidly and almost hovering. Having that kind of control over one's body is an exceptional skill that no human can match.

2) Different species of bird are adapted to different environments. These different environments call for different strategies to survive. Survival may be found in establishing and nurturing connections in a large flock. Survival may be found in creating a solid pair-bond that will last for decades. Survival may be found in being able to fly for vast distances, alert to any potential food source. Survival may be found in learning how to exploit a new food source. Survival may be found in remembering and looking back. Survival may be found in anticipating, planning and looking forward.

A macaw, used to lush forests, could not survive in the arid deserts of Australia where cockatiels thrive.

Individuals may also different in terms of skills. A species needs the birds who seek out novelty to identify new foods, roosting sites and so on - but those birds are also more likely to die as a result of their curiosity. Flocks need the birds who are alert and wary to act as sentinels and keep the flock safe, but these birds may be too highly-strung to survive on their own. Flocks need the birds that are good communicators and friendly and easy-going to maintain the social connections within the flock. Are any of these birds stupid or less intelligent? Not at all - and the flock has room for different roles.

Intelligence - and identifying intelligence in humans, birds and other animals - is a vastly complicated subject and you would do well to be open-minded about it.

 

[Momof3litt]

Well same as people do, you can tell most people , it has been scientifically proven thta you can tell the intelligence of an individual from looking into their eyes.

No, it hasn't.

There is some recent research that shows a possible correlation between resting pupil size and memory capacity, which has been reported in the popular media as "bigger pupils mean you're smart!" but like much of pop science reporting, that is far from the truth. There is no scientific consensus in the area, which would be the closest you could come to "truth".

 

[Lanka]

That approach leaves you wide open to unconscious bias and if you admit to hiring based on that, any reputable company will send you to HR so fast your head would spin.

Have you understood the issues raised here?

1) As a humans, we have a poor insight into avian intelligence. We try to judge them by human standards rather than recognising the way that they are adapted to figuring out how to survive as a bird. The simple actions of take off, flight and landing involve far more mental calculations than you or I are capable of making. A flighted bird is capable of changing direction and height mid-flight, swerving rapidly and almost hovering. Having that kind of control over one's body is an exceptional skill that no human can match.

2) Different species of bird are adapted to different environments. These different environments call for different strategies to survive. Survival may be found in establishing and nurturing connections in a large flock. Survival may be found in creating a solid pair-bond that will last for decades. Survival may be found in being able to fly for vast distances, alert to any potential food source. Survival may be found in learning how to exploit a new food source. Survival may be found in remembering and looking back. Survival may be found in anticipating, planning and looking forward.

A macaw, used to lush forests, could not survive in the arid deserts of Australia where cockatiels thrive.

Individuals may also different in terms of skills. A species needs the birds who seek out novelty to identify new foods, roosting sites and so on - but those birds are also more likely to die as a result of their curiosity. Flocks need the birds who are alert and wary to act as sentinels and keep the flock safe, but these birds may be too highly-strung to survive on their own. Flocks need the birds that are good communicators and friendly and easy-going to maintain the social connections within the flock. Are any of these birds stupid or less intelligent? Not at all - and the flock has room for different roles.

Intelligence - and identifying intelligence in humans, birds and other animals - is a vastly complicated subject and you would do well to be open-minded about it.

I never said I don’t hire people base on my impression on their intelligence, i do, but my first impression always is right. And it is scientifically proven.
I just asked a question as i was curious as someone who has only one bird. It was not my intention to provoke or insult anyone .
I’ve met very intelligent ‘unskilled’ workers and i met not so intelligent people with a lot of school who compensate with hard work. It only made sense to me that it might be the case with birds. With dogs it certainly is.

 

[fashionfobie]

With dogs it certainly is.

Dogs are all the same species that have been selectively bred for human desired traits. Parrots and birds are unique species in the mode you are asking. There are 350+ parrots, they are different from each other like dog vs fox, not dog vs dog.

And the dog "intelligence" rating has little to do with actual problem solving. It has more to do with obedience. It isn't marked on actual intelligence, but attentiveness to a human handler. It is based on repetitions and responsiveness. Breeds that excel at training are not more intelligent. It is flawed that they named this ranking with the word intelligence when they mean ease of trainability.

And dogs ranked low on the list can still be trained. It is also flawed because some dogs who do poor on that ranking have been selectively bred to be independent and make smart choices whilst working alone, this is especially the case with sighthounds. They need to be able to make independent choices far from their human handlers. They get ranked low, but they are smart dogs. Retrieving dogs get ranked higher but these dogs have been bred to work directly next to their human handler, it is a very different skill set.

Intelligence is a poorly way to look at other species, especially when you are evaluating them based off poorly test built by humans. If you would like to know more about the more current philosophies that are finally breaking with 18th century Cartesian dualities, you may like Vinciane Despret along with some others. I will share a link to a great discussion about Amotz Zahavi's research.

The Dance of the Arabian Babbler

A groundbreaking reflection on the process by which one arrives at an ethological theory

www.upress.umn.edu

 

[fashionfobie]

And if you prefer video content you may enjoy .

 

[Wardy]

I have 2 GCC one stepped up after a month the other is still a work in progress after 4 months. Does stepping up after a month make Mojo more inteligent ? Or does it make KiKi more inteligent as she is being more measured and cautious ?

I wonder if when there preening each other and chirruping away are they are discussing who is more inteligent me or my wife

Isnt the inteligence of all animals driven by instinct ?
Is there food,water any threats...

 

[flyzipper]

When i hire a new person, the first impression i have regarding their intelligence just from looking at their expression always proved to be true.

Confirmation bias is a thing -- it's human nature to think the choice you made is the best one (it doesn't make it so).
The road not taken is unknowable -- it's impossible to know the person you hired is better than the one you passed by (because you passed them by).

 

[fashionfobie]

Isnt the inteligence of all animals driven by instinct ?
Is there food,water any threats...

Instinct as a term should be carefully considered too. Humans have instinct they are less aware of and they can make choices based on these things unintelligently. As example, humans have been found to have far better smell than previously thought. Humans can determine compatibility of a partner from their smell. The human however isn't aware of this, they are more on the lines of "I love the way so-and-so smells." It is a preference. The instinct of the smell is not intelligently reflected on in a way that one understands why they like how so-and-so smells. Though you may intelligently reflect on what to make for dinner, how you will orgainse your chopping tasks, the cooking tasks and the serving tasks which lead to enjoying your meal. In my view intelligence is more about intention. Instinct can be unintelligent and intelligent. Young human babies and puppies will paddle in water on instinct. Humans will also turn the wheel of their car to avoid a collision. Both unintelligent (the paddling) and the intelligent (the turning of a wheel) come from some instinct around self-preservation. I think instinct is more abstract and vague. Yes organisms want food, water, and self-preservation; but this is made more complicated when altruism is considered. When a parent places themselves in harms way to save their child in one way they are instinctively protecting genes, but at the point of action the human isn't thinking about genes they are responding to an altruistic emotional driver that they love their child.

 

[Wardy]

Instinct as a term should be carefully considered too. Humans have instinct they are less aware of and they can make choices based on these things unintelligently. As example, humans have been found to have far better smell than previously thought. Humans can determine compatibility of a partner from their smell. The human however isn't aware of this, they are more on the lines of "I love the way so-and-so smells." It is a preference. The instinct of the smell is not intelligently reflected on in a way that one understands why they like how so-and-so smells. Though you may intelligently reflect on what to make for dinner, how you will orgainse your chopping tasks, the cooking tasks and the serving tasks which lead to enjoying your meal. In my view intelligence is more about intention. Instinct can be unintelligent and intelligent. Young human babies and puppies will paddle in water on instinct. Humans will also turn the wheel of their car to avoid a collision. Both unintelligent (the paddling) and the intelligent (the turning of a wheel) come from some instinct around self-preservation. I think instinct is more abstract and vague. Yes organisms want food, water, and self-preservation; but this is made more complicated when altruism is considered. When a parent places themselves in harms way to save their child in one way they are instinctively protecting genes, but at the point of action the human isn't thinking about genes they are responding to an altruistic emotional driver that they love their child.

Interesting