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I better start a thread, about Holly

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waterfaller1

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I was on the phone a couple times with Susanne today, and also called BF about Holly. She just is not acting right, her stools are loose, and her crop has not emptied since her feeding this a.m. before 8. She stays hidden under her toys, and acts like a baby, every few seconds complaining, and shaking her wings if I am standing there. For about a couple hours this afternoon while out she appeared better, playing...but has now gone back to acting funny. Susanne and BF agree, that it is possible there is either yeast, or a low grade infection in her crop. I was given so much advice, my head got a bit foggy since I am so worried about her. I tried giving her just warm water with Bragg's ACV, but that did not go down well once she realized it was not formula, and she was choking and breathing funny, and her eyes turned red afterwards. Susanne told me to make a mix of garlic, cinnamon, ginger, and cut her formula with Gerber rice baby formula. Susanne also said, and BF agreed, that some plain yogurt could be added to the formula. My main and immediate problem is getting the crop to empty now. After giving the water and ACV, I did massage the crop gently. Should I continue doing this, or only after giving the water? I think if this situation is not better by tomorrow that I will call and take her to the CAV if I can get in.
I have to get ready, and go to a dumb Christmas party for a couple hours, but will be hitting the grocery store for the items I do not have. I just jumped out of the shower, will go get dressed, and check back before I leave. So if you can think of anything else before I go, please post it. Prayers and positive energy would help too. Thank you.
 

ncGreyBirdLady

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Oh Dear Carole:hug8:I cannot offer any better advice then You have already gotten.But Healing Thoughts are Prayers are On the Way:hug8:
 

Birdlover

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Carole that would be my guess too - an infection. Nystatin usually clears it up super fast and was always what I was given back when I had baby problems when handfeeding. I would try and get her in to the vet sooner than later - its not necessarily an emergency but it could become one if her crop isnt emptying. I had one baby that became impacted because the food had separated... you dont want something like that :(
 

Gen120

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I don't have any advice, but you and Holly are in my thoughts and prayers!
 

Jacob

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I have no advise but am sending positive thoughts to you and Holly :hug8:
 

waterfaller1

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Thanks Jill & Bonnie, Victoria, and Herdis. Have to run, I will be back on later when I get home. I will pick up the ginger from the grocer..Talk to you all later.:hug8:
 

Billie Faye

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When I was on the phone with Carole, she let me know that Holly still had food from this AM's feeding in her crop....I told her to give her ACV/with water the same temp as her formula (105º) and get that into the crop to help dissolve the food that was still there...putting more food (formula) on top of it will only cause more problems...I also am afraid of impaction of the crop and by softly rubbing the crop with the added water will help soften that food up and hopefully, she will digest it...If the food is still there by AM get to her a vet ASAP for them to extract it out of her crop.. and on to meds...pureed papaya will also do the same as the ACV at this point....this is information for people who don't have ACV on hand but could have papaya...
If anyone else has other information, please jump in here...:hug8:
 

waterfaller1

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Thanks BF!! I will read the thread again when I get back. I just checked her, and it still feels like there is something in her crop, and now she is acting like she is trying to sneeze. She also gets kind of po'd like I am hurting her when I massage the crop. Can I actually be causing her pain, or is she just being testy, not wanting to be touched there? I feel like a failure at this point.:( I tried to call the CAV after talking to you BF, but they closed early today. I will call in the a.m..
Thanks again
I really have to go now, or I will be late..:rolleyes:
 

Prince Toasty Buns

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Hi Carole,

I am worried about Holly from all you have said. I would get to your A.V. asap, if not sooner. I would have liked you to be a bit more specific with info. to get specific advice but I will assume a couple things to offer my suggestions anyway.

What exactly did you feed at 8am? And how many cc's did you feed if it was formula? How much of the crop has emptied? None at all? 50%? Approx.? I assume the formula was at the right temperature & consistency when you fed it, etc.? Sorry I do not have any other info. at my fingertips regarding Holly and I don't have the time right now to search back to learn anything about her age, history, etc......

I personally would want to get that crop emptied first and rinsed out before giving any formula or other food. Then I would want to administer some Nystatin if you had some. I can't comment on the other things you have tried to give Holly already or want to give her later (like the mix Susanne suggested) as I have not ever used them myself. Since you probably do not have the experience in emptying the crop, the A.V. will need to do that if it is still stagnant. If the infection (if there is one) is localized to the crop or wherever the Nystatin can contact it, then that should hopefully be enough of a med. However if it has gotten into the bird's system then a systemic med like Fluconazole will be needed to be injected by the A.V. etc...... Holly may also be partially dehydrated by now so the A.V. will probably also need to give her an injection of electrolytes. If you go to the vet, you might want him/her to show you how to do this yourself in the future = to give Sub-Q injections just under the skin in the right places at the right dose.

The reaction of Holly's that you described after giving her the ACV and warm water may have been due to her getting some of it into her windpipe. Hopefully the choking etc. was just a temp. reaction and not too much damage was done.

You can continue massaging the crop but very very gently with very little water (if there is room for water, without her aspirating). Could be very risky. I say that because I still do not know how full the crop actually is?

Hoping those prayers & positive energy will help but I really wish you did not have to go to the party, as the vet visit would be best done now.

Best of luck to you & Holly.

Note: Came back to edit on that there were no responses to Carole when I started my post. I had to get up during the composition of my post to tend to another important matter and came back to finish the post. After posting, I see others have posted also.

Carole, I believe the A.V has an answering service and can be reached at any hr. for an emergency. Probably would even go into the office and have you come in with Holly if he feels it necessary (any hr. I would think). Of course you will probably get a hefty bill for an emergency call. Sometimes they will even go to your house. Well again, best of luck.





I was on the phone a couple times with Susanne today, and also called BF about Holly. She just is not acting right, her stools are loose, and her crop has not emptied since her feeding this a.m. before 8. She stays hidden under her toys, and acts like a baby, every few seconds complaining, and shaking her wings if I am standing there. For about a couple hours this afternoon while out she appeared better, playing...but has now gone back to acting funny. Susanne and BF agree, that it is possible there is either yeast, or a low grade infection in her crop. I was given so much advice, my head got a bit foggy since I am so worried about her. I tried giving her just warm water with Bragg's ACV, but that did not go down well once she realized it was not formula, and she was choking and breathing funny, and her eyes turned red afterwards. Susanne told me to make a mix of garlic, cinnamon, ginger, and cut her formula with Gerber rice baby formula. Susanne also said, and BF agreed, that some plain yogurt could be added to the formula. My main and immediate problem is getting the crop to empty now. After giving the water and ACV, I did massage the crop gently. Should I continue doing this, or only after giving the water? I think if this situation is not better by tomorrow that I will call and take her to the CAV if I can get in.
I have to get ready, and go to a dumb Christmas party for a couple hours, but will be hitting the grocery store for the items I do not have. I just jumped out of the shower, will go get dressed, and check back before I leave. So if you can think of anything else before I go, please post it. Prayers and positive energy would help too. Thank you.
 
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srtiels

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Carole,

Here is a link that show/explains several things discussed. Even though for tiels, it can be useful towards any bird: Sour and Slow Crop Remedies - Just Cockatiels!

The rice cereal is to lower the protein content of the formula. The watery dropping can be either from stress or from excess protien, or how the body (kidneys) are dealing with protein.

What brand of formula are you using? There is one brand that is known to settle during shipment, thus the contents in the bag are not evenly distributed. The top portion of the bag is low in nutrient content, and the farther you go thru the bag the denser the nutrient content. When nutrient content is reduced they are constantly hungry, and when the bird gets an overload it can be fussy, and/or organs can be affected. I make it a practice to dump my bags/brands of formula, stir and mix the contents. Place a days worth of the powdered formula in a container, and when that batch is used up, shake and refill. This way I know the nutrients are well mixed in the powdered formula.

What is her weight? How does she feel on either side of the keelbone. If you have a scales weigh her every few hours. When a bacteria or yeast goes systemic a bird will suddenly start dropping weight and with a big bird this could be a few grams per hour. How much is being fed per feeding?

If yeast is suspected in the crop it will adhere to the inside of the crop tissue. Normal crop tissue is thin. Depending on the bird between the thickness of a kleenex tissue to a paper towel when pressed bettween your fingers. If the crop feels thickened this could be yyeast.

IF you have to go to the vet, I woulkd ask him to show how to tube feed, and also how to do Sub-Q fluids, because if she is not digesting well she can also be digesting. But I have found that many times fluid therapy (Sub-Q) can get the GI tract moving...which is important to move along food that has been lying in the GI tract.
 
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BraveheartDogs

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I was on the phone a couple times with Susanne today, and also called BF about Holly. She just is not acting right, her stools are loose, and her crop has not emptied since her feeding this a.m. before 8. She stays hidden under her toys, and acts like a baby, every few seconds complaining, and shaking her wings if I am standing there. For about a couple hours this afternoon while out she appeared better, playing...but has now gone back to acting funny. Susanne and BF agree, that it is possible there is either yeast, or a low grade infection in her crop. I was given so much advice, my head got a bit foggy since I am so worried about her. I tried giving her just warm water with Bragg's ACV, but that did not go down well once she realized it was not formula, and she was choking and breathing funny, and her eyes turned red afterwards. Susanne told me to make a mix of garlic, cinnamon, ginger, and cut her formula with Gerber rice baby formula. Susanne also said, and BF agreed, that some plain yogurt could be added to the formula. My main and immediate problem is getting the crop to empty now. After giving the water and ACV, I did massage the crop gently. Should I continue doing this, or only after giving the water? I think if this situation is not better by tomorrow that I will call and take her to the CAV if I can get in.
I have to get ready, and go to a dumb Christmas party for a couple hours, but will be hitting the grocery store for the items I do not have. I just jumped out of the shower, will go get dressed, and check back before I leave. So if you can think of anything else before I go, please post it. Prayers and positive energy would help too. Thank you.
I"m sorry to hear about Holly. I am sending good vibes from here:hug8:
 

rockoko

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:eek: I'm so sorry to hear about Holly! :hug8:
 

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I am hoping Holly will be alright. :hug5:
 

srtiels

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I personally would want to get that crop emptied first and rinsed out before giving any formula or other food.
--------------------------------

I agree. If you don't know how to empty a crop the vet can show you.

Here are some things I have used. A larger bird would use the 14 Fr. size. The catheters can be found at a Medical supply. Some places, if you explain what you need, they will sell them to you. Some places may want a prescription, which the vet can write for a catheter.
 

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Billie Faye

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I personally would want to get that crop emptied first and rinsed out before giving any formula or other food.
--------------------------------

I agree. If you don't know how to empty a crop the vet can show you.

Here are some things I have used. A larger bird would use the 14 Fr. size. The catheters can be found at a Medical supply. Some places, if you explain what you need, they will sell them to you. Some places may want a prescription, which the vet can write for a catheter.
Great Post!!!!!!!
I was taught by the plastic tubing for fish tanks! I like this much better!!!!!!:hug8:
 

I am my birds Mom

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I hope all will be ok with Holly...you both are in our prayer!
 

srtiels

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I was taught by the plastic tubing for fish tanks! I like this much better!!!!!!:hug8:
----------------------------------------------------------

The red catheter is so much safer. It is softer, and if the edges are rounded as shown in the one illus no risk of an injuries that could be fatal. A friend used the fish tank tubing and lacerated some tiels throat, and they bled out.

Here are some illus, of what can go wrong. In the 2nd illus, a lady flew down from GA with the tiel hidden in her purse for me to show her what I was trying to tell her the problem was over the internet.
 

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akijoy

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Oh, Carole. I will be praying for you and your Holly. :hug8:
 
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