How to stop an older bird from molesting a baby bird?

[LostStoner]

I have a Yellow Sided Green Cheek Conure who is 1 year and 3 months old. I adopted her from a previous owner, and just got the test results back to find out she is a female, so I now have two females, as I also have a 12 week old Cinnamon Green Cheek Conure that I just got a couple weeks ago.

I have kept them in separate cages like I'm supposed to, which unfortunately has meant that I haven't been able to just leave the older females cage open all day like I did when I first got her, so she could sit on a perch on the front of her cage, or wherever she wanted. This has caused her to scream more than she normally does unfortunately, but that's besides the point.

I also have to keep my baby locked up when they are not on me, as I've caught them going over to the others cage and fighting through the bars.

When I first got the older female she would cuddle up against my hand and use it as a sort of wall to rest against, so she could lift a leg and relax it for a bit. This happened fairly frequently without any issues, but slowly over time she got to where even without my hand wrapped around her at all, touching my hand would cause her to stick her tail up in the air, and hunker her head and chest down low to my body, since she was standing in me, and start fluttering her wings almost kinda like a heartbeat, and making this weird squeaking noise.

To me this sounded like she was being sexual stimulated, without anything other than leaning against my hand to stimulate her, so I stopped letting her do that. However I sent a video of what she did to the people I got my baby from, who didn't seem to think this was anything other than normal chattering, despite me telling them she never does this any other time, along with many other details.

Now she, and my 12 week old baby have become closer, and can play for a little bit outside of their cages with each other, without fighting.

Today I noticed that the older female (Loki) was turning around backwards to the baby (Ivy) and lifting her tail up in the air, doing the wing flutter, and making the same noises she did to mez along with rubbing her vent on, and across the baby's tail. I am fairly certain that she is sexually stimulating herself by doing this, and that it is what's she has been doing all along as I suspected, but was told no.

So now I have no clue what to do to get her to stop basically molesting, or raping her baby step sister, other than to just leave them locked in their individual cages when I'm not playing with or holding them, like when I eat or whatever that I can't have them both on me. Because if I left them out together Loki will just keep doing that to baby Ivy.

But it's driving me nutz because as I said at the begining it's making Loki scream at me even more than she ever did in the past, and baby Ivy keeps chewing and popping the bars on her cage rather than chewing any toy, or perch, or cuddle bone I've out in her cage for her to do that to. Despite being a baby she has already popped 3 individual bars of the cages welds loose, and if she keeps going then I'm afraid there won't be a cage left to keep her in.

So idk what to do. I'm at a point where I just wanna hide in my room and pretend they aren't there.


TL;DR: How do I stop a 1 year old female Green Cheek from using a 12 week old baby Green cheek to masturbate, or molesting/raping the 12 week old baby.

 

[Sylvi_]

Well, hormones are very natural for our birds. There isn’t anything inherently wrong with this situation, and your other female is now coming into maturity. IMO this is very normal but I’m by no means an expert.

The only issue I can think of is if the older cheek was taking out her frustration physically on the baby. If that was the case separation is necessary.
The advice I’d give is what most do for our hormonal birds. Increase hours of darkness (12-14 hours) for her and provide plenty of foraging opportunities/swap around toys to keep her busy and mentally stimulated.

My major concern here would be them being stuck in their cages for too long. Screaming and breaking cage bars sounds like a lot of frustration and boredom. How long do they each come out per day?

 

[LostStoner]

Well, hormones are very natural for our birds. There isn’t anything inherently wrong with this situation, and your other female is now coming into maturity. IMO this is very normal but I’m by no means an expert.

My major concern here would be them being stuck in their cages for too long. Screaming and breaking cage bars sounds like a lot of frustration and boredom. How long do they each come out per day?

Ok first how do you figure a 12 week old baby bird is coming into sexual maturity? I've never heard of anything like that. The earliest I've heard of a bird sexually maturing is around 7 months to a year old, which is where the older bird is at now. So I'm not sure where you figure a 3 month old bird is sexually mature.

They spend over half the day out with me watching tv, or just chilling with them, I will leave them on me when I do chores etc. They aren't being stuck in there for 6+ hours a day. I frequently let them out to also play on top the cage together and stuff.

The older female tends to mostly scream when louder noises are going on, like the ice maker piping ice out of the fridge, or a waterfall rushing on tv, etc stuff that just all of a sudden pops in and is louder than anything else in the show or movie has been. But she doesn't just do it once and stop, she will scream once or twice, I'll tell her to stop, and she does for like 39 seconds and then scream again, so then I warn her that this is her last warning and if she does it again she is going into time out. My version of timeout is mostly to allow her to scream as much as she wants, while seeing that it's not going to get her any attention or whatever it is she wants, and so that I don't have to hear it as loudly. I walk her back to their bedroom and out her in a travel cage I have set up and let her scream until she stops, then start a timer, and after 30 mins without screaming I'll go let her back out.

As for the baby she hasn't even tried to play with any of her toys or anything all she does is pop the wires over and over and over, the only way she stops is If I come and get her. But I also don't want to reinforce that behavior either like I don't want to reinforce the screaming.

They both have toys and plenty of stuff in their cage to keep them occupied for the little ammount of time that they are in there while I'm eating, but they choose not to.

I really would love to allow them to both be out all the time freely, but until just the last couple days they had been Fighting, so I had to keep them separated. So it was nice to see them getting along, I thought yay I might get to leave the doors open now, but then the older bird Loki started using the baby to masturbate, and the baby has no idea what is going on, she is just standing there like yay I have a friend. Not being at all involved in what Loki is doing to her.

Because she isn't sexually mature yet, and won't be for a while, I would rather the older female not be using the baby to masturbate.

That's why I posted.

 

[Sylvi_]

Ok first how do you figure a 12 week old baby bird is coming into sexual maturity?

I referred to your older female there, should of specified.
Again, I’m not an expert on these things just putting forward what advice I’ve used for my cockatiel who has bouts of hormonal behavior and my previous GCC.

I’ll tag one of our Conure experts who may have some more insight. @webchirp

 

[LostStoner]

I referred to your older female there, should of specified.@webchirp

Ah! Ok that makes more sense for sure!

I was all kinds of confused lol, but yes I know the older female is in the sexual maturity age, which is why I believe she is doing what she is doing.

I know I joke about her being a lesbian, or a molester or pedophile, but while I may just be joking, in a sense that is kinda what's going on, and my baby is my baby, so I have special feelings for her, over the other female which I adopted after she was already a year old, in fact I just got the older female on Jan 23rd.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that during the sexual maturity stage the whole hormones situation isn't just seasonal type deal, and is more of a constant thing instead for however long it takes them to go all the way through sexual maturity... Kinda like a teenager going through puberty.

But idk. I just don't like the idea of her doing that to my little baby who is still a goofy little baby, and doesn't know what's up ya know.

 

[webchirp]

The babies will often mimic adults so while the baby could display hormonal behaviors, she likely isn't having a case of hormones. All this is natural and you just need to distract her. If a cheek is popping cage bars, it's time for a different cage. Flood the cage with toys and wherever she is popping bars, place a toy. You can also shift cages around the room to shake things up a bit. I know a friend had to switch cages with a hormonal Hahn's every day to keep her occupied. They get bored and look for ways to self gratify. Don't think too hard on the whole human issues with ages here. They don't see things as we do. I think you might want to take the hormonal gal to the vet for a lupron shot though. Hormones are rough on them. You kinda have to feel for her...she wants to mate and have babies but her only option is a young one. Just imagine how you would feel in her situation.

 

[LostStoner]

The babies will often mimic adults so while the baby could display hormonal behaviors, she likely isn't having a case of hormones. All this is natural and you just need to distract her. If a cheek is popping cage bars, it's time for a different cage. Flood the cage with toys and wherever she is popping bars, place a toy. You can also shift cages around the room to shake things up a bit. I know a friend had to switch cages with a hormonal Hahn's every day to keep her occupied. They get bored and look for ways to self gratify. Don't think too hard on the whole human issues with ages here. They don't see things as we do. I think you might want to take the hormonal gal to the vet for a lupron shot though. Hormones are rough on them. You kinda have to feel for her...she wants to mate and have babies but her only option is a young one. Just imagine how you would feel in her situation.

I believe you are confused. I don't think, and never said that I thought the baby (Ivy) is experiencing hormones, she also isn't mimicking the 1 year old female (Loki).

Also Ivy, the baby, is the one one who has popped some bars loose, not Loki the 1 year old. However I don't think it's from, or has anything to do with force, the cage she is arrived from the company with some slight damage, the top has a couple bends in it, and just putting it together I myself found one weld that wasn't secure, so I used some small zip ties to make sure everything stays stretched and secure where it needs to be so she can't get out.

So I think it's a situation where this one cage is kind of a Lemon so to speak, or had shoddy or crummy craftsmanship. The place I purchased it from thought doesn't want to have anything to do with fixing, or replacing parts, they would rather have me send it back to them, so they can charge my credit account for return shipping, and then have me order another one, so they can also charge me for shipping the new one to me. Plus I would be without a cage in the interim between the two items shipping around.

I also don't think baby Ivy is chewing on, or popping her cage bars because she is bored, I believe it's because she wants out/wants me. As soon as I get up, she will stop and come to the door thinking I'm going to let her out. I have tried to distract her with one of those crunchy stick treats, and she had it shredded in two days down to the plastic core, but most of it was on the bottom of her cage, or the floor around her cage, I'm sure she ate some, but not most.

I can't possibly leave her out all day long, or hold her all day long either because when I do let her out, she won't just sit and chill like Loki will, she will fly to me, as their cages aren't but 3 feet away from my chair, to be with me.

As I said previously I don't want them on me when I'm eating. There are times when Ivy is fine in her cage, she will chill, or she will eat her food, but once she is done eating, or decides she doesn't want to sit and chill, she will start in with chewing on and popping her cage bars. Plus she has a BUNCH of toys in there, but she won't even touch them, they have absolutely no chew marks on them, I never hear her ringing the bells or anything like that. She either sits and chills doing nothing, or eats, or washes her head in her water bowl, or is chewing on and popping her cage bars.