How much hope is there for birds with heart disease?

[AGS]

He saw the vet for a recheck today, his lungs sound completely clear now.

 

[AGS]

Now the only issue is he has a weird smell coming from his mouth. It’s not there constantly but gets stronger after he eats or drinks which worries me. It doesn’t smell bad really, I thought maybe it was from his medicine (his new bottle of benazepril is banana flavored but smells like chemicals, and the antibiotic didn’t smell great either). But it doesn’t smell exactly like any of his medications. I don’t know what it is unless the antibiotic caused a yeast/fungal infection in his crop. It’s just concerning that it smells stronger after he eats (but isn’t the smell of his food). I didn’t mention it to the vet because I only noticed it yesterday but honestly just thought it was the medicine. Today I noticed it after we got home so I checked the medicine but none smell exactly like that. Unless it’s the smell of them mixing together.

 

[Hankmacaw]

The smell of a fungal infection is sour - usually very definite. I have an idea that is smell from all of the meds.

 

[Kassiani]

I'm so glad his lungs are now clear!

 

[AGS]

I did a virtual visit today because even on the isoxsuprine, benazepril, and pentoxifylline, he’s not really improving. He’s been on the pentoxifylline for almost 4 weeks now, although it can take up to 8 weeks to fully work, we most likely would have seen some improvements by now. I thought maybe he was slightly getting better but it’s hard to say. Every time he goes to the vet it ruins things because it zaps all of his energy.

He is going to see a cardiologist for an ultrasound of his heart. There isn’t really anything else to try for the atherosclerosis but it’s possible he has some kind of heart defect or other heart disease (that might have even caused the atherosclerosis considering he doesn’t have high cholesterol like you would usually see). If that’s the case then there are other medications that could help.

I just hate seeing him suffer. If I could somehow have the disease instead of him I would take it in a heartbeat. And I feel so bad that he still wants to play and whistle but just doesn’t have the energy.

 

[Kassiani]

When have they scheduled the ultrasound, or have you not heard yet? Could the vet give you something to give him to relax him ahead of leaving for the procedure?

 

[AGS]

I have to call to schedule it today, but they said it’s usually not for 4-6 weeks since it’s a specialist. I can ask but I don’t think they can. She said they don’t usually sedate them or anything because it can mess with the results.

 

[AGS]

Every time Widget seems to be getting better something comes up that really lowers his energy. He showed some improvements but then aspirated his medicine, then he saw the vet two times after that which both take a while for him to recover. Then he seemed to be doing better and was whistling for the first time in a while but then broke a blood feather.

He seems to be doing decent though. Not as bad as he used to be for sure.

And I’m waiting to hear back from the vet about the ultrasound/echocardiogram. Turns out Dr. Drigger’s office has one vet that comes in that could possibly do it sooner. The other specialists won’t be until April or July.

 

[Kassiani]

I hope you’re able to see the cardiologist munch sooner! I hope he’s comfortable and things will go well for you both!

 

[Greylady1966]

Hopefully you can have it done sooner. Hope it goes well.

 

[Kassiani]

*much sooner, lol. Autocorrect!

 

[AGS]

Unfortunately it’s not until May but he is on a cancellation list. I guess the other vet who is able to do it sooner is not actually a cardiologist and more focuses on abdominal ultrasounds. It’s very possible he has some kind of other heart disease/defect that actually caused the atherosclerosis. He doesn’t have high cholesterol that commonly causes it. It is strange that the isoxsuprine only barely helped and the pentoxifylline showed no improvement whatsoever when they are commonly used for atherosclerosis. But the benazepril is used a lot for other heart disease, not just atherosclerosis, and that’s what he showed the most improvement on.

Also @Hankmacaw or anyone else, do you know anything about beta blockers? I was reading they are used for heart problems and sometimes atherosclerosis in birds combined with the benazepril/ACE inhibitor. I was going to ask about it next time he goes to the vet but figured I’d ask here in the mean time.

 

[Kassiani]

Oh, geez! I hope an appointment opens up sooner!

 

[Hankmacaw]

Jasper was on all of these medications except the ISOXSUPRINE. She had high blood pressure and the Sildenafil worked best to lower her blood pressure. She did not have high lipids/cholesterol. She was never given a combination of heart drugs.

Enalipril is an ACE inhibitor
Sildenafil is an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor, a depressant)
Benazipril is an ACE inhibitor
Isoxsuprine is a BETA blocker

Jasper's heart and circulatory issues were caused by a high fat, highly inadequate diet during the first six years of her life. When she was given to me at 6 1/2 year of age, she had significant blockage in her aortic chambers and congestive heart failure. The lack of adequate circulation caused the atherosclerosis.

I will mention that she had an echocardiogram and the results were very disappointing in that no information was gained.

 

[AGS]

He did try sildenafil too but it didn’t do anything for him strangely. I don’t know what his diet was like before I got him though I don’t think it was all seeds because he ate pellets from day one and we didn’t have to do anything to get him to eat them. I know he didn’t get much exercise and still doesn’t because he was clipped. He can fly now but just chooses not to because he’s used to being carried when he wants to go somewhere. At this point I think flying might be too much for him. He used to fly when he got scared of something but now even when he’s scared he will just hide rather than flying.

Do you know any other tests that can be done? Dr. Driggers mentioned a CT scan however he did say it’s risky for Widget because he would need to be sedated. I’m terrified of that because my brother‘s bird was a similar size (sun conure) and died from anesthesia. She was sick at the time and Widget is even more weak than she was. Even the vets don‘t know how bad he is because he seems more alert at the vet because he thinks he's fighting for his life. At home he just lays there and doesn’t get up much when he’s at one of his low points like right now.

 

[AGS]

Widget had some matted feathers from the medicine and one fell out today. It was actually a clump of multiple feathers. Now there’s a bump where it used to be. The feather was bothering him a lot so now he’s a lot calmer but his face is itchy. I don’t know if its from the bump or just because there are a bunch of pin feathers growing in now (one even bled slightly when the matted feather fell out). Any possibility the bump is just swelling from the irritation or is it most likely infected? The feather was also causing his skin to be pulled up, so would it be okay to watch it for a couple days to see if it heals?

 

[Kassiani]

Is the area just raised or does it look red compared to the skin next to it? Does it feel warmer than the rest of his skin? If there are pin feathers, that could absolutely be why it is itchy for him.

 

[AGS]

It looks red now but he has also been scraping it against a little piece of wood on his branch to scratch the itch. I will try to stop him from now on, since it didn’t look red yesterday. It seems the skin may also be pretty dry. I can’t currently check if it’s warm but I will ASAP.

 

[AGS]

Nope it’s not warm at all. I also can’t really tell if maybe it’s just his normal face shape, since I’ve never seen him bald in that spot.

 

[Kassiani]

Can you bring him into the bathroom with you while you shower to see if the steam would help his dry skin and the pin itches?