Do you have full flight birds

[Joey]

topie's wings were clipped when i first got him, but now the feathers are growing back. he can barely fly properly but he doesn't do it much anyway. tiny's wings aren't clipped. don't see any reason to. i let him outside sometimes and he would fly around like a maniac before coming back and landing on my shoulder. ^^

 

[HeatherM74]

My baby Lovebird has not been clipped and won't be. She's doing so good with flying now and I love to see her doing it.

My parakeets, 2 came clipped, 1 never was, and I'm not sure about the history of clipping with 2 of them. I'm trying to find a safe way to let them out of the flight cage to have free flight time since they aren't tame. I'm thinking about making a drape to hang over the kitchen entry (no door, just a open space), shutting the rest of the doors, then just opening the cage up to let whoever out that wants to come out to play. I want to keep them in the living room because there aren't as many places that are up high to perch, unlike my kitchen where they could get up on top of the cupboards and hide from me. I know 4 of them could be called back with Millet, but Penelope won't even take that from my hands. I just want them to enjoy flying like Twinkle does.

I do know that I'm going to let the 2 that were clipped grow their flight feathers back in and let them be.

 

[Chad]

... My conures and cockatiels have both been fully flighted before, but the conures tend to get aggressive when they are fully flighted, they get mad/bite me, so unfortantly I had to clip them (only slightly)....

Bella does this too! I wonder if it is a conure thing. It bothers me because I want to teach her recall training, but she gets really really aggressive when shes fully flighted.

 

[marian]

Hiram is full flighted however he never flies. He walks every where he has to go.

 

[Bunkybird]

I am envious to those of you that have the (safe) space to allow your birds to be fully flighted.....

 

[HeatherM74]

I am envious to those of you that have the (safe) space to allow your birds to be fully flighted.....

Mine are small. Otherwise I wouldn't yet.

 

[Stevo]

I am envious to those of you that have the (safe) space to allow your birds to be fully flighted.....

It can be a real challenge Trish. I wasnt happy with the space inside so built the outdoor area - otherwise Danny was losing out on mental stimulation and social interaction by not being able to go everywhere with me (when clipped).

 

[Sophie's Mama]

It almost seems like a taboo to have clipped birds? I find this strange, I do clip my birds as a safety factor. I have 4 children and a multitude of others running in and out of the house. I have ceiling fans that run now and then. And I have windows that I leave the curtains open so the birds can see out and whistle at the wild birds in the yard. If my birds were flighted it would be a risk to their safety to leave them out of their cages, and they very seldom are in cages, only at night. Is clipping detrimental? There just seems to be a uncomfortable undertone when someone ADMITS that they clip the wings of their domestic bird?

OK color me BAD, I decided to read all of the posts and it seems to be definitely a choice. What are the pros of having a flighted bird as opposed to a clipped bird...PS Sorry for jumping to conclusions....

 

[Stevo]

It almost seems like a taboo to have clipped birds? I find this strange, I do clip my birds as a safety factor. I have 4 children and a multitude of others running in and out of the house. I have ceiling fans that run now and then. And I have windows that I leave the curtains open so the birds can see out and whistle at the wild birds in the yard. If my birds were flighted it would be a risk to their safety to leave them out of their cages, and they very seldom are in cages, only at night. Is clipping detrimental? There just seems to be a uncomfortable undertone when someone ADMITS that they clip the wings of their domestic bird?

OK color me BAD, I decided to read all of the posts and it seems to be definitely a choice. What are the pros of having a flighted bird as opposed to a clipped bird...PS Sorry for jumping to conclusions....

There certainly shouldnt be any taboo about it - it's an individual/personal choice that the carer needs to take based on THEIR OWN personal situation. Every situation is different and there's really no basis to judge others; especially when you consider that we all can be doing things better for our birds and NONE of us are perfect.

Pros (Flight)- Exercise, Mental development (when young), Stimulation, lung work, ability for bird to get to safety. Great for building trust and a relationship with the bird/carer.

Cons (Flight) - Can be riskier to take a flighted bird outside. Restricts where/what interaction and social stimulation you may be able to provide the bird. House needs to be better bird proofed. A strongly bonded bird might never leave you alone.... lol.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Pros (Clipped) - Can enable the bird to have wider social interaction outside of the house. May be safer if door inadvertantly left open. Encourages development of the birds drumsticks (yum yum)

Cons (Clipped) - False security that a bird cant/wont escape. Forces bird underfoot around the house increasing it's danger. May lead to an unfit, overweight, bird if not managed. Can reduce trust if the bird cannot readily get away from something it doesnt like. May be harder to escape dangers.

Just a few of my thoughts.

 

[Riley's mom]

It almost seems like a taboo to have clipped birds? I find this strange, I do clip my birds as a safety factor. I have 4 children and a multitude of others running in and out of the house. I have ceiling fans that run now and then. And I have windows that I leave the curtains open so the birds can see out and whistle at the wild birds in the yard. If my birds were flighted it would be a risk to their safety to leave them out of their cages, and they very seldom are in cages, only at night. Is clipping detrimental? There just seems to be a uncomfortable undertone when someone ADMITS that they clip the wings of their domestic bird?

OK color me BAD, I decided to read all of the posts and it seems to be definitely a choice. What are the pros of having a flighted bird as opposed to a clipped bird...PS Sorry for jumping to conclusions....

It really is a personal choice. I personally clip all of my birds and do not plan to change the practice. My birds are just as happy and healthy as any other birds. It is a safety issue for me as well.

 

[Birdlover]

It almost seems like a taboo to have clipped birds? I find this strange, I do clip my birds as a safety factor. I have 4 children and a multitude of others running in and out of the house. I have ceiling fans that run now and then. And I have windows that I leave the curtains open so the birds can see out and whistle at the wild birds in the yard. If my birds were flighted it would be a risk to their safety to leave them out of their cages, and they very seldom are in cages, only at night. Is clipping detrimental? There just seems to be a uncomfortable undertone when someone ADMITS that they clip the wings of their domestic bird?

OK color me BAD, I decided to read all of the posts and it seems to be definitely a choice. What are the pros of having a flighted bird as opposed to a clipped bird...PS Sorry for jumping to conclusions....

Well, the poll is probably somewhat skewed in the sense that this section of the forum was set up for people that are interested in or have flighted birds. The original intent was to be a place to get ideas and learn how to live with a flighted parrot - though really the same practices in most cases should be applied clipped or flighted. Things like keeping birds safe from other pets, open doors, ceiling fans - all these things can pose a problem wether they are clipped or not.

These are two great places to read about flight vs clipping:

Should you clip your parrot

The Parrot University at Hartman Aviary

There has been a few discussions on clip vs flight here also, here is the main one:
http://forums.avianavenue.com/airport/5484-clipping-not.html

Many of the reasons people give for clipping, really are not much (if at all) safer than keeping a bird unclipped. I do not understand "clipping for safety" - does that make one who leaves their birds flighted unsafe? No. Bird-proofing the home is much safer than clipping wings, but either way, one must consider the home and make sure that it is safe. Because you clip a bird does not make present dangers safe (sometimes they actually become more dangerous).

A bird can still escape clipped, and taking a clipped bird outside without restraint or training is a big risk. They can still fly a great distance, especially if they are properly clipped. They shouldnt hit the ground like a brick if they try to fly, but be able to glide. Clipping is supposed to take away the vertical lift, but still allow a safe glide down.

Flying into things in the home (the stove, windows, getting attacked by another pet, ceiling fans) are all things one must still consider and make safe for the bird wether it is clipped or not. They are actually at a greater risk when they dont have their natural means of maneuverability/escape from these situations.

I keep my birds unclipped. Unfortunately not all of them can fly, for either being clipped at too early of an age (didnt learn properly) or being clipped so long they have basically formed a habit of not flying.

It is a personal choice, but I feel many birds are clipped more because "thats what we have always done" than because the true pros and cons have been considered When considering the bird, I think they are happier (that doesnt mean a clipped bird isnt happy) and better off with unclipped wings than clipped. Safety shouldnt be dismissed just because a bird is clipped. No matter the decision, the home should be made safe for all the reasons one would cite for clipping.

 

[AkCrimson]

It's not always about convenience. My family lost a conure when I was a child because he wasn't fully clipped. Our house was bird proofed and we were cautious. However, we had a guest who didn't understand the importance of the house rules. The Sunnie was startled, and took off. Despite all the precautions taken. I've come to the realization that first and foremost my responsibility to my birds is health and safety. Happiness and mental stability comes after that.

It's definitely a choice. No one should be made to feel ashamed for making a choice they feel right for their birds. When you do research this subject, be sure to read more than one article, as most of them tend to be biased and lean towards one side or the other. Every situation is different, there is not one blanket answer for each and every person.

I've got two clipped birds, and one unclipped.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Well, the poll is probably somewhat skewed in the sense that this section of the forum was set up for people that are interested in or have flighted birds. The original intent was to be a place to get ideas and learn how to live with a flighted parrot - though really the same practices in most cases should be applied clipped or flighted. Things like keeping birds safe from other pets, open doors, ceiling fans - all these things can pose a problem wether they are clipped or not.

These are two great places to read about flight vs clipping:

Should you clip your parrot

The Parrot University at Hartman Aviary

There has been a few discussions on clip vs flight here also, here is the main one:
http://forums.avianavenue.com/airport/5484-clipping-not.html

Many of the reasons people give for clipping, really are not much (if at all) safer than keeping a bird unclipped. I do not understand "clipping for safety" - does that make one who leaves their birds flighted unsafe? No. Bird-proofing the home is much safer than clipping wings, but either way, one must consider the home and make sure that it is safe. Because you clip a bird does not make present dangers safe (sometimes they actually become more dangerous).

A bird can still escape clipped, and taking a clipped bird outside without restraint or training is a big risk. They can still fly a great distance, especially if they are properly clipped. They shouldnt hit the ground like a brick if they try to fly, but be able to glide. Clipping is supposed to take away the vertical lift, but still allow a safe glide down.

Flying into things in the home (the stove, windows, getting attacked by another pet, ceiling fans) are all things one must still consider and make safe for the bird wether it is clipped or not. They are actually at a greater risk when they dont have their natural means of maneuverability/escape from these situations.

I keep my birds unclipped. Unfortunately not all of them can fly, for either being clipped at too early of an age (didnt learn properly) or being clipped so long they have basically formed a habit of not flying.

It is a personal choice, but I feel many birds are clipped more because "thats what we have always done" than because the true pros and cons have been considered When considering the bird, I think they are happier (that doesnt mean a clipped bird isnt happy) and better off with unclipped wings than clipped. Safety shouldnt be dismissed just because a bird is clipped. No matter the decision, the home should be made safe for all the reasons one would cite for clipping.

Great post Jill! Wonderfully said!

 

[Faen]

My birds are all clipped and always will be. I'll add to this later maybe.

 

[Riley's mom]

My birds are all clipped and always will be. I'll add to this later maybe.

Mine are too!!!!

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

My birds are all clipped and always will be. I'll add to this later maybe.

Will be interesting to hear (when you are ready - "maybe"), why exactly you say: "..... and always will be".

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

"............. However, we had a guest who didn't understand the importance of the house rules. The Sunnie was startled, and took off. Despite all the precautions taken. I've come to the realization that first and foremost my responsibility to my birds is health and safety. Happiness and mental stability comes after that................"

Maybe all precautions were not taken or the bird would not have escaped (IMO)?

All guests in my home must & will understand the importance of the house rules. Otherwise, either they will not be allowed in my home for any length of time or if for some reason I have to have them inside my home temporarily, my birds will be kept safely locked in cages until the guests leave.

Mental stability and happiness does affect health and a bird's cardiovascular system, etc. works best fully flighted. I don't think that can be logically argued against?

 

[Riley's mom]

It's not always about convenience. My family lost a conure when I was a child because he wasn't fully clipped. Our house was bird proofed and we were cautious. However, we had a guest who didn't understand the importance of the house rules. The Sunnie was startled, and took off. Despite all the precautions taken. I've come to the realization that first and foremost my responsibility to my birds is health and safety. Happiness and mental stability comes after that.

It's definitely a choice. No one should be made to feel ashamed for making a choice they feel right for their birds. When you do research this subject, be sure to read more than one article, as most of them tend to be biased and lean towards one side or the other. Every situation is different, there is not one blanket answer for each and every person.

I've got two clipped birds, and one unclipped.

Good post!!!

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Good post!!!

So I am curious Cindy, why are your birds currently clipped? Will they always remain clipped?

Another comment I meant to make to the post you feel was so good:

No one (IMO) is "made to feel ashamed" for clipping their birds if they currently think it is right in their situation. I don't feel it is the simple intent of any person who is against clipping to shame anyone but instead it is our intent to try our best (some do it better than others, agreed) to educate thru personal experience and by providing links (like Jill did, therefore I have no need to) to studies and testimonials from bird keepers and researchers who have discovered that it is in fact best for birds (physically, psycologically and physiologically) to be fully flighted and housed in safe accomodations, to enjoy all they were meant to be - short of free flighted up in the wild blue yonder. I don't see how that can be common-sensely or logically argued against. If so, I am listening?

Sure, some bird keepers have more precautions to take than other keepers which of course takes more time than some of them may honestly have or desire to make, that is understood. So maybe fairer for those keepers to just admit that or that they honestly do not have or cannot borrow the funds to currently construct safe areas or safety proof areas of their homes, etc. ... Maybe they should say that they do understand that most all birds are truly better off in all ways fully flighted and that they will work towards eventually providing their flock members what they were meant to have - rather than carrying a chip on some of their shoulders because maybe THEY themselves feel ashamed for clipping their birds - NOT "made to feel ashamed". How can one shame someone who is proud of what they do?

Anyway, my post here is not meant to upset anyone or try & "shame" anyone, I am just trying to understand why everyone (everywhere) does not diligently work towards making full flight safe for those birds in their flock that are capable of it (asap) instead of either simply arguing against it or making excuses for why they are not doing it or standing firm simply because they may feel that no one is going to tell them what to do. Isn't that what adolescents do. Aren't we as adults willing to always do our best to adopt a better way of doing things, if not the best way.

Sorry to anyone who feels I should have taken the time to try & sugar-coat my words to please you. Sorry if I also rambled a bit, only got a couple hrs. sleep last night. ... All of us are passionate about something or other in our lives and this clipping issue is and always will remain one of the issues that causes me concern. After all the debates, arguements, discussions, articles, studies, first-hand experiences, etc. etc. etc., - yr. after yr. - I am amazed that there are still people who will sit there and argue for clipping or that birds are safer/better off clipped. Just not so and that is not a simple matter of opinion.

Yea, yea, we all know it is a "personal choice". Why do people keep saying that!!!!! No one is going to go over to anyone's house and bonk them over the head because they are clipping their birds. Yes, it is a personal choice (duh) but is it the best choice or a better choice. That is the question and all the studies have shown that it is not the best choice for any bird but more the most convienent choice or least expensive choice for their keeper.

I better go get some coffee now or maybe better something colder to cool me off some.

 

[yvette]

My grey is clipped.