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Do you have full flight birds

Whats your bird(s) flight status?

  • yes, my bird(s) are full-flight

    Votes: 547 66.0%
  • No, my bird(s) are clipped

    Votes: 59 7.1%
  • Some of my birds are clipped and some arent

    Votes: 143 17.2%
  • Im considering full-flight but my bird(s) are currently clipped

    Votes: 80 9.7%

  • Total voters
    829

Dragonseer

Walking the driveway
Joined
2/29/16
Messages
234
It should be noted that cropping and docking are simply cosmetic and have no real impact on the animal's health whereas clipping a bird's wings rendering it unable to fly or only fly partially is detrimental to their physical and mental health.
It is on this point that I tend to disagree, though respectfully so.

I don't believe that cosmetic work should be done to animals, which, true, cropping/docking fall under that category. I'm guessing that, in some cases, infection and/or nerve-related damage have the potential to occur, if a surgical error is made. (Hopefully, that's very rare.) In that regard, though, cropping/docking have the potential to impact a dog's permanent health status, both physical and mental.

Declawing is awful and can potential raise health/quality of life concerns but they are minimal when compared to a bird who cannot not fly.
Declawing runs the risk of changing a cat's personality due to pain. That is, it's thought that those whose personality quickly goes from sweet to temperamental--even downright angry 24/7--likely suffer from permanent nerve pain, post-declaw. (I know a family whose young cat was sweet but became a beast within 2 weeks after declawing her; they wound up re-homing her, as she could no longer be trusted around their two children. Sad--and preventable, IMO.)

I still view clipping a bird's wings as more of a temporary situation--in that the feathers can regrow--rather than a permanent one, unless, as I've mentioned, a bird somehow becomes unwilling (or unable) to fly over time.

As my husband has pointed out to me, cropping/docking/declawing are forms of permanent disfigurement. That's not to say that I'd clip all birds' wings under any/all circumstances, but I still see surgical procedures done on pets for cosmetic reasons--or to protect one's couch from being scratched--as more severe than clipping a bird's wing feathers; feathers could grow back, should a bird's owner decide to allow his/her bird(s) full flight.
 
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Sarah13

Rollerblading along the road
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New York City
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Sarah
It is on this point that I tend to disagree, though respectfully so.

I don't believe that cosmetic work should be done to animals, which, true, cropping/docking fall under that category. I'm guessing that, in some cases, infection and/or nerve-related damage have the potential to occur, if a surgery is done improperly. (Hopefully, that's very rare.) In that respect, though, cropping/docking have the potential to impact a pet's overall health (physical and mental).



Declawing has been shown to change the personality of some cats for the worse; it's thought that those whose personality goes from sweet to temperamental--even downright angry 24/7--likely suffer from permanent nerve pain post-declaw. (I know a family whose young cat was sweet but became a beast within 2 weeks after declawing her; they wound up re-homing her, as she could no longer be trusted around their two children. Sad--and preventable, IMO.)

I still view clipping a bird's wings as more of a temporary situation, rather than a permanent one--unless, as I've mentioned, a bird somehow becomes unwilling (or unable) to fly over time.
We did agree... :) I am very aware of the negative effect these things can have on a dog or cat, especially the cat. I am also aware of declawing being a full amputation and the rare but potential complications of cropping/docking, hence my
"I do not condone cropping, docking and especially declawing..." None of my dogs or cats were/are ever cropped/docked or declawed.

Yes wings grow back so they can fly again physically and even become fairly skilled but if clipped during the crucial fledging stage, "the damage is done" from a cerebral development standpoint. A dog, for example, may not have its ears grow back like a bird's feathers but it also does not suffer nearly as profound consequences. Its cerebral, skeletal, and cardiovascular systems are not compromised by the removal of cartilage and tissues on their ears.

Even the best "clipped before but great flyer now" pales in comparison to a bird that was allowed to properly develop by fleging and remaining flighted.

Again though, I will never tell anyone what to do with their animal because that is disrespectful and I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me. I will present what science has proven but it is their decision in the end. :)
 
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BeeBop

Sprinting down the street
Joined
9/19/16
Messages
589
BeeBop is growing out his wings (they were clipped when I got him) and will be fully flighted. :)
 

Dragonseer

Walking the driveway
Joined
2/29/16
Messages
234
We did agree... :) I am very aware of the negative effect these things can have on a dog or cat, especially the cat. I am also aware of declawing being a full amputation and the rare but potential complications of cropping/docking, hence my
"I do not condone cropping, docking and especially declawing..."
I meant that we disagree on which procedures--cropping/docking/declawing or wing trimming--are more detrimental, overall. But I'm glad to know that even some vets no longer perform such surgeries. (The exception is if a cat must have a toe, or more, removed, as did our cat, who'd developed a tumor on one of his toe pads; so he essentially wound up with a single-toe declaw.)

A dog, for example, may not have its ears grow back like a bird's feathers but it also does not suffer nearly as profound consequences. Its cerebral, skeletal, and cardiovascular systems are not compromised by the removal of cartilage and tissues on their ears.
I also am against the risk of putting a pet under anesthesia for cosmetic reasons--which is a much greater, though one-time, risk than trimming flight feathers. (Again, solely my opinion, I realize.) One never knows if an animal may have an underlying health issue that is compounded by anesthesia. (I was a wreck when my rabbits were anesthetized for their spay surgeries and when my cat was knocked out for an double endoscopy and foot surgery, two separate events.)

Again though, I will never tell anyone what to do with their animal because that is disrespectful and I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me. I will present what science has proven if asked but it is their decision in. :)
Ditto. :D
 

Sarah13

Rollerblading along the road
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9/30/13
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2,643
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New York City
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Sarah
I meant that we disagree on which procedures--cropping/docking/declawing or wing trimming--are more detrimental, overall. But I'm glad to know that even some vets no longer perform such surgeries. (The exception is if a cat must have a toe, or more, removed, as did our cat, who'd developed a tumor on one of his toe pads; so he essentially wound up with a single-toe declaw.)
Ooooh, haha, I see. Then I totally agree about the clipping being safer than a surgical procedure on a dog or cat. Sorry I misunderstood. :hilarious:
I thought you were referring to the resulting effects...not the actual procedures themselves. Yeah, clipping is practically painless like nails and hair and doesn't really have any risks (not counting freak accidents with blood feathers/handling the bird and clipping improperly/overstressed bird with heart conditions etc etc) :p

I've seen that declawing is actually going up to be potentially banned in the US like it is in so many other countries. I don't if cropping/docking is going that way or not with the AKC and such having such a strong hold on things.
:faint:
Anesthetizing a dog or cat can be risky but birds are especially terrifying as their risk goes through the roof compared to dogs and cats. I'm so glad I haven't had to do that with my GW although the B&G was and I wasn't thrilled. It wasn't my decision at the time though as both of them are adopted rehomes.

I hope your cat is okay too! Yikes! Tumors are scary business.
:hug8:
 

Dragonseer

Walking the driveway
Joined
2/29/16
Messages
234
Ooooh, haha, I see. Then I totally agree about the clipping being safer than a surgical procedure on a dog or cat. Sorry I misunderstood. :hilarious:
I thought you were referring to the resulting effects...not the actual procedures themselves. Yeah, clipping is practically painless like nails and hair and doesn't really have any risks (not counting freak accidents with blood feathers/handling the bird and clipping improperly/overstressed bird with heart conditions etc etc) :p
Actually, I was referring to both the surgical procedures and their permanence as being potentially more dangerous. Granted, there are many dogs and cats that seem fine after such procedures; still, I lean more strongly against them than wing trimming, as I believe that bird owners primarily clip their birds' wings for their (the birds') safety. There may be people who do so for other reasons, but I'm guessing that cosmetics isn't one of them.

I've seen that declawing is actually going up to be potentially banned in the US like it is in so many other countries. I don't if cropping/docking is going that way or not with the AKC and such having such a strong hold on things.
It will be interesting to see how the powers that be rule on these issues....

Anesthetizing a dog or cat can be risky but birds are especially terrifying as their risk goes through the roof compared to dogs and cats. I'm so glad I haven't had to do that with my GW although the B&G was and I wasn't thrilled.
Anesthesia is extremely risky with rabbits, as well. I had to have our three (RIP) knocked out a number of times for various medical procedures, besides the two girls' spays. Had a minor heart attack every...single...time.

I hope your cat is okay too! Yikes! Tumors are scary business.
We lost him on 10/30/13 due to non-tumor-related complications. He'd developed a neurological symptom on top of ongoing digestive woes and diagnostics didn't pinpoint a single issue, which was beyond frustrating and disheartening.
 

animallover9

Walking the driveway
Joined
6/6/16
Messages
244
Location
Nebraska
My cockatiels are all fully flighted but are failing at recall training. 3/4 of my budgies are horribly clipped right now but they were like that before I got them. I have no plans to clip them once there feathers grow back out. My one flighted budgie is not tame so her being flighted makes things a little complicated but I would never want to get her clipped since I know how much she loves to fly all around.
 

Dragonseer

Walking the driveway
Joined
2/29/16
Messages
234
My cockatiels are all fully flighted but are failing at recall training.
Perhaps they're pretending to fail. ;)

I really like your birds' names, btw--especially Raiden, Phoenix and Loki. Very nice. :D

3/4 of my budgies are horribly clipped right now but they were like that before I got them. I have no plans to clip them once there feathers grow back out. My one flighted budgie is not tame so her being flighted makes things a little complicated but I would never want to get her clipped since I know how much she loves to fly all around.
I've a feeling that where there's a will, there's a way; your untamed girl and you will come to some sort of an arrangement that works.
 
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Dragonseer

Walking the driveway
Joined
2/29/16
Messages
234
Same! I love Norse mythology.
It always seems, though, like there are many animal species walking around with the name Loki. I guess that's because so many of them can be considered tricksters. :D
 

Sarah13

Rollerblading along the road
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New York City
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Sarah
It always seems, though, like there are many animal species walking around with the name Loki. I guess that's because so many of them can be considered tricksters. :D
No joke there! So many Lokis and a fair number of Odins.
 

SandraK

Ripping up the road
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Almost all of my birds are full flighted. Some I have clipped every now and then because they develope attitudes and chase down less aggressive fids (liek the tiels). A very few don't fly because of handicaps or old untreated injuries from before they came to me; their wings are not clipped which, for the most part, allows them to glide to the floor instead of falling.

And while I have a Loki she was mate to Beni until they decided to split up and picked other partners.
 

scoobdoo63

Jogging around the block
Joined
2/25/15
Messages
713
Real Name
laurie
I let mine grow his wings out and he became a danger to himself. When the phone rang he got spooked and flew into Windows..every single time! It's not even loud. I turn the ringer way down and the other phone is gutted..my cell phone does not have ringer type rings.. it's songs.. everyone of my contacts has a song set to them, unidentified numbers have sayings or songs..something about rings spook him. I have had cats all my life, I'm 52 now.. every indoor cat I have had and I'd say that would be about all except 3 that were outside here declawed and fixed if they going to indoors. One for hormonal issues, don't want males spraying in my house or females going in heat howling all the time..if they happen to get out boom kittens! It happened to me..no one wants kittens anymore! If they are going to be indoors then they get declawed.. no matter how many scratch post you have a cat is going to claw things up, a kitten is going to be hyper and climb stuff..my cats were fine, never had any troubles. They recovered very quickly
 

CStone

Jogging around the block
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8/15/14
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635
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Illinois
Speaking as someone who clipped for "safety reasons" for many years, I have to say that my bird is much safer now that he has all of his feathers and has learned how to fly. Like many others who clip, I was concerned for one of my birds because he would get startled and take off and promptly crash into a wall, often injuring himself. I feared he would one day hit his head so hard that it would kill him, which was a real possibility. After much research, which included reading articles on this website, I decided to stop clipping. There were more crashes with me chasing behind hoping to soften the blow, but after a few months, he started to get the hang of steering. Then, he got the hang of landing. He still has problems landing on surfaces he has never tried to land on, but now after circling a couple times, he can do it. He NEVER crashes anymore. I can't stress that enough. He used to ALWAYS crash and now he NEVER does. If I'm reading his leg band correctly, he had been clipped for 9 years. 9 years!(including when he was with me) And he still learned how to fly! It also improved his attitude. All that time he was a sweet bird who was only crabby because he couldn't fly. It's a shame it took at least 3 owners to uncover his sweetness.

Apologies to those who have heard Coco's story several times for having to hear it yet again. ;)

IMO, clipping may not be permanent, but it is every bit as debilitating as an ear/tail crop or declaw, maybe even more so considering how much birds rely on flight. I do understand that there are circumstances that require clipping, but I feel it should only be used as a last resort.
 

Owned By Birds

Meeting neighbors
Joined
1/30/14
Messages
55
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Sara
Speaking as someone who clipped for "safety reasons" for many years, I have to say that my bird is much safer now that he has all of his feathers and has learned how to fly. Like many others who clip, I was concerned for one of my birds because he would get startled and take off and promptly crash into a wall, often injuring himself. I feared he would one day hit his head so hard that it would kill him, which was a real possibility. After much research, which included reading articles on this website, I decided to stop clipping. There were more crashes with me chasing behind hoping to soften the blow, but after a few months, he started to get the hang of steering. Then, he got the hang of landing. He still has problems landing on surfaces he has never tried to land on, but now after circling a couple times, he can do it. He NEVER crashes anymore. I can't stress that enough. He used to ALWAYS crash and now he NEVER does. If I'm reading his leg band correctly, he had been clipped for 9 years. 9 years!(including when he was with me) And he still learned how to fly! It also improved his attitude. All that time he was a sweet bird who was only crabby because he couldn't fly. It's a shame it took at least 3 owners to uncover his sweetness.

Apologies to those who have heard Coco's story several times for having to hear it yet again. ;)

IMO, clipping may not be permanent, but it is every bit as debilitating as an ear/tail crop or declaw, maybe even more so considering how much birds rely on flight. I do understand that there are circumstances that require clipping, but I feel it should only be used as a last resort.


I agree with this. Unless it is absolutely necessary, I refuse to clip wings. My birds have crashed several times and yeah it can be scary. But, they do learn how to control themselves in flight. My Sun Conure, Buddy, is still working on it a bit. I'll stand a few feet away from his cage and I'll call him and he will fly to me. The first few times he had trouble with landing, but now he knows exactly what to do, how high or low to fly, when to slow down, etc...
It takes practice. And I don't think it's fair to take a bird's flight away from it. They can't get the hang of it if you won't let them. If you have hand tame feather babies, practice with them. It's worked for me. And yes I understand not all birds are the same. But I believe every bird deserves to keep their feathers whole. We shouldn't take away something so beautiful.

Before Snowball passed away she would fly all the way across the house just to go see me or my mom. She never crashed. She had to fly through my room, through the kitchen, through the hall to the living room, then go into my mom's room. Those rooms were on opposite sides of the house. If they get enough practice they will get it down and not crash. Give them the chance they deserve. It's worth it. And I noticed it improves their attitudes as well. It's noticeable. And even though my feather babies know they can fly they prefer to walk and jump. Any time they get spooked and take off they land safely on something tall in the room.

Hopefully more people choose not to clip, unless of course there's some sort of serious reason they shouldn't be fully flighted. I can't really think of any reason. Unless you're not giving them the chance or you haven't bird proofed your home, then that's on you. Just saying.
 

fireball249

Strolling the yard
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Joined
10/19/14
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78
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Dallas, TX
My baby was clipped when I got her and while I cannot say it was a butcher job you could tell that she was not fledged properly prior to the clip (and it was done too short also). When she tried to fly it was more falling without style. She could just barely get to the ground without hurting herself. I was so glad when she finally molted and got her flights back in. My husband and I discussed it and decided to leave her flighted unless she proved too dangerous (flying too fast, not turning away from walls and windows, etc.) and while it took her a few weeks to get the hang of it, she has become great. We never did have to retrim (wouldn't have done a full clip but merely trimmed a couple of the feathers to just slow her down a bit). She isn't a huge flyer, she will do a couple laps around the living and dining room from time to time but she does like to fly to us in the kitchen when we have the water running in the sink :) I love having her flighted and have started trying to teach recall. She likes to cheat and just hop from her cage to me and back but I figure it is a start and we can work on distance later lol. She does go back to her cage when I tell her "cage" so I am happy with her progress!
 

alshgs

Rollerblading along the road
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2,951
All of mine are growing out their wings. Tuki is flighted and will remain that way once all his grow out. I love watching him fly and he just seems like an overall happier bird when he flies. Rio is getting some flight now that his flight wings are growing in, and we are still working with Diego on it :)
 

bumblebee

Walking the driveway
Joined
3/21/15
Messages
156
Location
Australia
All of mine are growing out their wings. Tuki is flighted and will remain that way once all his grow out. I love watching him fly and he just seems like an overall happier bird when he flies. Rio is getting some flight now that his flight wings are growing in, and we are still working with Diego on it :)
Mine too! Hazel came to us clipped, I can't wait until she grows our her beautiful wings and is able to fly around. Peanut came to us clipped as well, but we let him grow his wings out and his been flighted since. He still needs to grow a few more but he flies well enough in the meantime.

I love playing with birdy wings, they are so soft and pretty. :laugh: I love shoving my face under Peanuts wings, haha.
 

scoobdoo63

Jogging around the block
Joined
2/25/15
Messages
713
Real Name
laurie
I wish you could all see the set up of my house..very small rooms attached to other rooms and lots of windows! I tried again let them grow out he was fine ...until the phone rings he goes freaking nuts! Not taking chances. He was clipped again. He is just as happy.
 

Cynthia & Percy

cockatoo mania
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i will post again as my bird level has changed from 5 to one due to a stroke
Percy is fully flighted but has not flown in about 5 years
 
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