Chicken Litter/Bedding

[AussieBird]

I've been talking with @fashionfobie about this, but am curious to see what others have to say too.
What litter/bedding do you use for your chickens and why?
And I want to start a dicussion about the deep litter system/method. I do not do it, but still want to hear your opinions

 

[fashionfobie]

Great! I think it is smart to post this as a thread. It gives everyone new or veteran a chance to learn something potentially new.

I personally do not use the deep litter method. This method was established in industrial practices to save time/money. Broiler chickens for example will live their entire lives on the same litter. This link could be a point of information for the curious: FAQ: Deep Litter in Chicken Coops | Robert Plamondon's Rural Life

The method claims to reduce coccidiosis because the ammonia build up kills the bacteria. Meanwhile the chickens are living in a high ammonia environment. To control excessive ammonia and to assist in controlling the smell Lime is added to the litter, which is caustic to the chickens' feet if not added properly it can cause chemical burns. I am sure there are people who have success with this method, I am sure it saves them time. However it is misleading to promote this method as healthier for the birds. Chickens are a jungle bird, they live on the forest floors and roost in branches. It is only under human control that they are forced into small compartments and situated as commodity products. I believe I have an ethical obligation to allow the birds the thrive, not survive until they're retired from exhaustion or slaughtered. My hens are cleaned weekly. They scratch the ground, and most importantly don't live in their poop. Most animals avoid their waste.

Keep in mind that I am also of the opinion we shouldn't have mass industrial chicken farming. This probably gives me bias. I also don't consume chicken meat. They are my companion animals, if they give me eggs neat!, but I don't actually care. I only eat eggs from my own birds, which means sometimes I go months without eggs. They do as they will

 

[Ali]

Wow! Chickens are complicated! And that's just the flooring!

I only eat eggs from my own birds, which means sometimes I go months without eggs. They do as they will

Will you use the duck eggs (assuming you have girls?). They are so good for cakes and baking!

 

[fashionfobie]

Will you use the duck eggs (assuming you have girls?). They are so good for cakes and baking!

I will use their eggs if/when it comes

 

[FeatherMan]

I actually have two chicken coops, one for my Silkies that is small (3’ by 3.5’) and the other for my full size chickens, which is larger (8’ x 8’), and I use fine pine shavings for both. I like pine because it’s cheap, and I like the fine size because it’s most absorbent and easy to clean, IMO. I get bags from the feed store for about $8 a piece, and it takes about three bags to cover my big coop or 1/2 a bag for my small coop. I generally only need to buy maybe six to eight bags a month since my chickens free range.

I do use the deep litter method for the large coop (which is a walk in coop), but I regularly change the bedding on the small coop. However, my chickens free range from the minute I get up (usually around 9) until the sun sets, so they aren’t exactly sitting in it all day and there is WAY less poop in there than people who have attached runs get.

The big coop is super ventilated (since this is Texas and the heat is often over a hundred degrees, I built it where three of the walls turn into hardware mesh halfway up, which I cover with plastic during the few cold months we get). So much ventilation keeps it aired out and there is never any smell or ammonium build up. I do remove it once it’s been built up for about six months and add it to my compost pile, where it quickly becomes garden gold!

I really like the deep litter method for large, well ventilated coops—especially if your chickens are only in there at night—but am not such a big fan of it for small coops. My cousin keeps nine full size chickens in a TINY coop (one of those plastic things that Omelet claims can hold up to ten chickens but really should only have about three) and a small attached run, and she uses the deep litter method. Both the run and the coop are disgusting. I was incredibly confused why she thought chickens were smelly (my coops have no real smell beyond sawdust and hay) until I saw her setup, and I was like... yeah... your chickens smell because they are living in unsanitary conditions. Mine don’t because I don’t leave their crap to build up under their feet all day.

I think the problem with the deep litter method is that a lot of people do it wrong. It DOESN’T mean you use any less shavings, and it doesn’t mean you leave the coop dirty. The most important thing to remember with the deep litter method is that your coop should still look and smell clean! If there is enough poo showing that you would want to clean it, cover it up with at least two inches of fresh litter. Don’t leave the babies sitting in their poopoo! They will just end up with worms.

 

[fashionfobie]

@FeatherMan those Omelet things are a nightmare! I couldn't imagine 9 hens thriving in that.

I also let my ladies out to forage. It is beautiful to watch them do regular chicken things At my old house they were out all day, sadly at my current place we don't have a fully fenced yard so they are only out for 2 hours or so in the afternoon. I have a mixed flock of ducks and chickens, the 6 share an 18sqm run with their own houses. The duckies have a hut on grade.

I am sure part of my views on the deep litter method is seeing people do it wrong. I am a suburban chicken keeper. Many suburban chicken keepers jump into it without research. They buy "systems," like the Omelet, and stuff it full of birds. Seeing chickens trapped in their waste breaks me. Which is what you see in industry as well as poor backyard husbandry. They deserve so much better. In a suburban setting I keep few birds so regular cleaning works. I spread straw, but lately also wood shavings and sometimes cane. Though I use caution with cane it is crazy dusty!

Even though deep litter can work great when done correctly, like your larger coop, I think people should get well informed on how that system works before they jump into it. It is still an unnatural way for chickens to live, all the houses we keep them in are. Can you link the source that helped you set up your large run @FeatherMan ? Maybe it can help someone coming to the forum with how your system works, and what they can do

 

[FeatherMan]

@FeatherMan those Omelet things are a nightmare! I couldn't imagine 9 hens thriving in that.

It is horrible. Sadly, I don’t think she really cares much about the well being of the chickens, just how many eggs she can get. I may try to integrate some ladies she has that aren’t laying into my flock since she plans to cull them but not eat them. They aren’t that old (they should still be laying at least moderately), so I suspect it’s the conditions they are being kept in affecting their health. Though I’d probably take them to the vet first, because I’m worried her Flock is sick from the way they look.

Can you link the source that helped you set up your large run @FeatherMan ? Maybe it can help someone coming to the forum with how your system works, and what they can do

I wish I could! Unfortunately, I just picked up how I keep chickens from my great grandpa, people I know, and trying various things I’ve read. Experience has just led me to the way I do things now. Talk to me in two years, and something will probably have changed in how I keep my farm animals! It always seems to as the years go by!

 

[AussieBird]

Thanks for all the replies!
I really did think there would be a way that deep litter could be used, but it wouldn't work for me.
The backstory of why I have chickens and I want to improve they lives.
My family has raised chickens for eggs, meat, and some showing before I was born and the job was past to different kids till it stopped with me. I'm still the one mostly in charge and I want change the way I do somethings. I own four silkies (+five chicks atm), three barnevelders, fifteen buff Sussex, and one fizzle rooster.
Bedding is the first thing because we moved cages to a nice grassy spot, but now grass is gone and ground is getting compacted. The buffs get the most foraging because they need a bigger cage and I don't like to leave them in their small one.
I am just starting to figure out a system to forage them all regularly, but I only allow one rooster out at any time.
Next thing will probably be diet, but I will start a different thread for that.
Ok, I am done writing this book now.

 

[fashionfobie]

Depending on your roosters and your set up they could be out together. Roosters in wide open spaces don't fight to the death, they may squabble but it isn't always dramatic. A lot of times one will turn tail and give up just from the hackle display of the larger bird. They are most likely to fight when in close proximity or when there is a poor hen/roo ratio. If you have them out foraging they may never fight. Each bird has a unique personality. Silkie are also know to be sorta "tough" guys! So definitely don't just do what I am saying if it doesn't work for your flock. I am only suggesting if you haven't tried it before. Roosters aren't always at each other throats, I knew 6 boys who were always out together and they even roosted in a row, they were buddies. They lived in a bachelor group and there weren't ladies to fight over.

This sanctuary works to rehab ex-cockfighting chickens. Rooster Rehab | Eastern Shore Sanctuary & Education Center

You may enjoy learning about how they approach rooster keeping. Roosters used in cockfighting are highly manipulate by people. They are bred with heightened aggression and dubbed, cut and caged. It is a difficult life and the birds are extremely aggressive. It isn't their fault that they are from a system of abuse

I love chickens, so any excuse to mumble on about them is perfect! I enjoyed your, "book," @AussieBird and I look forward to more of them!

 

[FeatherMan]

@AussieBird I definitely second Natalie with the fact that you can keep roosters together. If they’ve never been together, introduce them slowly, say by placing them in cages next to each other in an area neither would consider their territory and letting them get to know one another through the bars. As long as I kept about a 5:1 ratio of hens to roosters, I have never had any problems with roosters fighting. When I do, it’s usually a rooster that has a particularly aggressive temperament, which you probably don’t want in your flock, anyway. It’s always a balance, finding roosters that are tough enough that they protect their hens but friendly enough that they treat their ladies like a gentleman. But definitely try integrating them! You may be surprised at the results! My Wyandotte rooster was placed in the silkie coop at five weeks for awhile, and he still likes to curl up with them now and then.

 

[AussieBird]

I know it may work, but the though of letting my silkies near Thor (buff rooster) is scary, he's probably three if not four times their size. And yes @FeatherMan we never keep any rooster that is aggessive, for my safety and the safety of children we often have at our house.

I love chickens, so any excuse to mumble on about them is perfect! I enjoyed your, "book," @AussieBird and I look forward to more of them!

That was probably the longest message I ever wrote here. As soon as I sort the cages out expect a chicken thread, I will introduce you to the flock.

 

[AussieBird]

Oh, I forgot to mention rooster are kept with the hens of their breed when breeding, but I think I am done with hatching for the time being so mixing should be fine for now.

 

[AussieBird]

@BirdWorld you said you had chicken, join our conversation.

 

[BirdWorld]

I've been talking with @fashionfobie about this, but am curious to see what others have to say too.
What litter/bedding do you use for your chickens and why?
And I want to start a dicussion about the deep litter system/method. I do not do it, but still want to hear your opinions

I don’t use deep litter, instead I have hay in the coop, which I clean out and replace frequently, and the run has dirt and wood chips. I do let the chooks out to forage for a few hours a day, but I make sure they are supervised during that time due to having hawks and foxes in my area. Their coop is actually in the run, so they are free to roam in it whenever.

@AussieBird I definitely second Natalie with the fact that you can keep roosters together. If they’ve never been together, introduce them slowly, say by placing them in cages next to each other in an area neither would consider their territory and letting them get to know one another through the bars. As long as I kept about a 5:1 ratio of hens to roosters, I have never had any problems with roosters fighting. When I do, it’s usually a rooster that has a particularly aggressive temperament, which you probably don’t want in your flock, anyway. It’s always a balance, finding roosters that are tough enough that they protect their hens but friendly enough that they treat their ladies like a gentleman. But definitely try integrating them! You may be surprised at the results! My Wyandotte rooster was placed in the silkie coop at five weeks for awhile, and he still likes to curl up with them now and then.

I can’t say much on this topic, since I don’t have roosters, but I rescued two of my hens from a farm where the roosters there were pecking them half to death! This was Cinnamon when I first got her, and that’s Ginger in the back.

 

[fashionfobie]

I can’t say much on this topic, since I don’t have roosters, but I rescued two of my hens from a farm where the roosters there were pecking them half to death! This was Cinnamon when I first got her, and that’s Ginger in the back. View attachment 356523

Awe Poor Cinnamon Hens can be pretty nasty to each other too, especially if they don't have space. They can even cannibalize each other, why do you think they cut their beaks when they stuff them in battery cages? Poor birds.

If chickens have the space they need this type of harm is less frequent. Over mounting can be a problem, as your Cinnamon experienced, though if the sex ratio was better and they had ample space it may have been less sever. Keep your eyes on your two plucked birds. Hens can pick at the red/pink they see on flockmates, especially a new member who is still finding her place on the pecking order. If either of them bleed the hens will peck them even more.. trigger warning for the next sentences. -This was not my flock. This keeper had far too many birds for their space... I have seen hens actually rip open a new flock member. She had exposed skin and everyone picked and pecked, eventually leading to an open wound. Hens are attracted to the red colour and start pecking at the new flockmate's wound and it just escalates. It is horrific. I don't wish it on anyone. Though since hens are attracted to red/ blood / wounds/ keep a close eye on your two.

 

[BirdWorld]

-This was not my flock. This keeper had far too many birds for their space... I have seen hens actually rip open a new flock member. She had exposed skin and everyone picked and pecked, eventually leading to an open wound. Hens are attracted to the red colour and start pecking at the new flockmate's wound and it just escalates. It is horrific. I don't wish it on anyone. Though since hens are attracted to red/ blood / wounds/ keep a close eye on your two.

That’s horrible! I did keep them apart when I first got them, and thank goodness nothing bad happened. I did keep an eye on them for that while, and now they have healed nicely. At least, until Cinnamon got sick recently (I posted a thread about that) and, Ginger actually has been looking pretty patchy recently... that might just be molting.

 

[fashionfobie]

Ginger actually has been looking pretty patchy recently... that might just be molting.

Fingers crossed it is molting. When my T-Rex molts, she drops many feathers at once. One time should walked up and fluffed out next to me and a circle of fallen feather surrounded us. It was like she was a cartoon character!

 

[AussieBird]

One of my silkies got a sore under her tail and the other hen pecked it till it bled. I removed her and cleaned it up, after a day or two I made the mistake of putting her back. I had to do everything all over again, now she fully healed and back with her friends.
Over-crowding can cause so many problems. Which brings me to a question I wanted to ask. How much space per chicken do you suggest?

 

[BirdWorld]

How much space per chicken do you suggest?

As much as possible

 

[fashionfobie]

That is a bit of a tricky question. Clearly their roosting area can be smaller, I used to have 6 next boxes for my 3 hens, but they never even used one side so we removed some and now have 3 nest boxes. In the winter all 3 cuddle into a single box, they are very close knit group! During the day when they are active, they need as much space as you can give. I have a 18 sqm run which is a full height space (3 chickens and 3 ducks), and there is room so the birds can get away from the group and relax alone if they so choose. I still feel that 18 sqm is not enough, they get to free range the yard for a few hours. They get bored in the run and look forward to their time out. I am not sure what the best minimum is, most of the literature on that is the absolute minimum for efficient eggs / broiler production. Clearly those are not appropriate for lifelong healthy thriving birds. My partner and I don't need many eggs. We keep a small flock so that we know each bird can receive medical care. 6 birds needing the vet is far less than 30, if you know what I mean.

I say what is the most you can give. Try and give them that, or keep fewer birds.

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