At my breaking point....

[Wayne361]

Well said Beth.

Wayne, much of your thinking may be sound, but you have come out of the starting gates too fast. As another member said, you need to get to know people on this forum and their history with their birds.

I am always cautious of using absolutes to explain or correct a situation - I have been training animals for over thirty years,including African elephants and steer away from absolutes - each situation is unique on some or other level, as is each animal.

I respect your opinion but I wasnt giving absolutes. Just suggestions. If anyone wants to review the thread you will see I offered up advice. I took the time and effort to sincerely attempt to help. If she takes my advice or sees another members advice as more sound really doesnt matter to me. I want the best for the bird. What she did tho was dismiss my suggestions point blank and took a holier than thou attitude by stating poking wont tame any bird. If you read closely you will see the passive aggressive nature in her tone and demeanor. I simply responded. THAT is where this thread fell off the rails. Next time somone asks for advice and are given advice they should either not reply (if it is something they dont want to persue), or be kind enough to offer a thanks. Respect has a funny way of being recipracle and vice versa.

Regards

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Putting a bird in their cage because they are fired up at the moment, is not necessarily punishment. Sometimes it is just to remove them from a situation to "cool down", this is not unreasonable and will not necessarily create a detrimental association with the cage.

This can be argued all day, training like that doesn't fix everything. There is no such thing as a step by step that will work with every bird. The way I do things here is if the bird is being unreasonable they go back to their cage. Period..

 

[Sadieladie1994]

I have reread your original post and you were concerned and hurt by Dexter's behavior. •Suggestions you got would be ones I might give. •Clicker training does work in a lot of instances and targeting is part of that. •If the animal is focused on something else they are •less likely to do the "bad" behavior. • Many animals have behaviors they enjoy doing also. •Those behaviors can be stress relievers so are helpful for them to do during stressful times, makes them comfortable thus more confident. •You don't have to do clicker training is true but in some way we do give signals to an animal...clicker training is just one organized way to help with communicating. • Posters have also been at wits end and rehomed their bird with both winning. •Rehoming is not just for us but can be a real option for a bird who might do better in a different setting and I have suggested that to some people. •Sure doesn't make the owner a bad person either as they did it for the best interest of their parrot. •

If you ask for suggestions on an open board you will get a variety of responses including those that surprise us or hit us wrong. •That does not make them poor answers. •But the other thing is you can choose what fits your situation and accept or decline! •The response may not work for your situation but others reading may find helpful information.

Bottom line is people try to help to make things better for us and our wonderful companions and I hope they keep doing that.

 

[Sadieladie1994]

Putting a bird in their cage because they are fired up at the moment, is not necessarily punishment. Sometimes it is just to remove them from a situation to "cool down", this is not unreasonable and will not necessarily create a detrimental association with the cage.

So true Vicki!

 

[cosmolove]

I respect your opinion but I wasnt giving absolutes. Just suggestions. If anyone wants to review the thread you will see I offered up advice. I took the time and effort to sincerely attempt to help. If she takes my advice or sees another members advice as more sound really doesnt matter to me. I want the best for the bird. What she did tho was dismiss my suggestions point blank and took a holier than thou attitude by stating poking wont tame any bird. If you read closely you will see the passive aggressive nature in her tone and demeanor. I simply responded. THAT is where this thread fell off the rails. Next time somone asks for advice and are given advice they should either not reply (if it is something they dont want to persue), or be kind enough to offer a thanks. Respect has a funny way of being recipracle and vice versa.

Regards

I did say thank you and that I didn't think it would work with my birds. I wasn't being passive aggressive in the least bit at first. I was just stating my opinion on why it won't work for my situation. When I told you I didn't think your way would work you got heated and again tried to slam your opinion down my throat. Ofcoarse I'm going to get mad about that. I've mentioned MANY times on MANY threads I don't mind people having a different opinion that me, that's what makes us human. Something that may work with your birds may not work with mine, only I know my birds.

Please get off your soap box and playing victim. Yes I got snippy, but I got snippy over the fact that even after I said thanks but it won't help my situation I then got slammed on how wrong I am and oh I'll take your bird if you want since this is leading up to a rehome/rescue situation blah blah blah.

Again thank you for your insight and opinions on this topic. If you have any other suggestions [other than ones you have already mentioned] by all means post away.

Please stop trying to pick fights with everyone in this thread. It's 100% unneccessary, not everyone has to agree with each other. That is perfectly fine for everyone to have their own ways of doing things.

Putting a bird in their cage because they are fired up at the moment, is not necessarily punishment. Sometimes it is just to remove them from a situation to "cool down", this is not unreasonable and will not necessarily create a detrimental association with the cage.

That is exactly what I use it for. He goes to his cage to cool off, I walk away (this time to clean up my wound lol) and then a little later when we both have had a chance to cool off then we start over.

 

[Wayne361]

I did say thank you and that I didn't think it would work with my birds. I wasn't being passive aggressive in the least bit at first. I was just stating my opinion on why it won't work for my situation. When I told you I didn't think your way would work you got heated and again tried to slam your opinion down my throat. Ofcoarse I'm going to get mad about that. I've mentioned MANY times on MANY threads I don't mind people having a different opinion that me, that's what makes us human. Something that may work with your birds may not work with mine, only I know my birds.

Please get off your soap box and playing victim. Yes I got snippy, but I got snippy over the fact that even after I said thanks but it won't help my situation I then got slammed on how wrong I am and oh I'll take your bird if you want since this is leading up to a rehome/rescue situation blah blah blah.

Again thank you for your insight and opinions on this topic. If you have any other suggestions [other than ones you have already mentioned] by all means post away.

Please stop trying to pick fights with everyone in this thread. It's 100% unneccessary, not everyone has to agree with each other. That is perfectly fine for everyone to have their own ways of doing things.



That is exactly what I use it for. He goes to his cage to cool off, I walk away (this time to clean up my wound lol) and then a little later when we both have had a chance to cool off then we start over.

If you assume I tried ramming anything down your throat then you have perception issues.

No victim card here. I take full responsibility for my actions/consequences...others not so much.

Get snippy if you want. If reflects on your personality. I truly could care less.

As for picking fights with "everybody" please get your facts straight and again you have perception issues.

Lastly I stated several times if something else works for you great. Please let the community know what you have done (in this instance and others) to benefit the forum members on the whole.

Have a great day. Good luck with your issue at hand.

 

[cosmolove]

If you assume I tried ramming anything down your throat then you have perception issues.

No victim card here. I take full responsibility for my actions/consequences...others not so much.

Get snippy if you want. If reflects on your personality. I truly could care less.

As for picking fights with "everybody" please get your facts straight and again you have perception issues.

Lastly I stated several times if something else works for you great. Please let the community know what you have done (in this instance and others) to benefit the forum members on the whole.

Have a great day. Good luck with your issue at hand.

Thank you I will be sure to share things as things continue to get better with me and Dexter

 

[InTheAir]

Hey Erica,
At the risk of sounding like I'm pushing my opinion on the unwilling, I just wanted to check that you did notice the link I posted before the ensuing choas.
I think every parrot owner should have that link in their arsenal of parrot problem solvers. It is the model that a lot of great professional behaviour consultants use.

Regards,
Claire

 

[cosmolove]

Hey Erica,
At the risk of sounding like I'm pushing my opinion on the unwilling, I just wanted to check that you did notice the link I posted before the ensuing choas.
I think every parrot owner should have that link in their arsenal of parrot problem solvers. It is the model that a lot of great professional behaviour consultants use.

Regards,
Claire

I honestly saw it and meant to read it and then chaos went on in my house (Puppy on the counter again) then chaos in the thread so it slipped my mind. I have it open right this second!

I don't think you're pushing your opinion at all, I only get mad when people cross the line you know? Either way I'm checking it out now

 

[Wayne361]

Putting a bird in their cage because they are fired up at the moment, is not necessarily punishment. Sometimes it is just to remove them from a situation to "cool down", this is not unreasonable and will not necessarily create a detrimental association with the cage.

Im almost afraid to post now Hahahaha. For the record if my opinion doesnt reflect anothers opinion thats fine. I respect all opinions even if I dont agree. If others could be so open-minded there would be greater dialogue in this world.

Now to address the above. I agree that by caging the bird it will take it out of a situation. My point is that it does little (again my opinion) to deter the situation requiring the caging. I call this a 'band-aid" approach meaning you might temporarily "fix" the problem but not addressing the underlying issue. For example if you have a nippy bird and cage as a result this wont solve the original issue of WHY the behaviour exists. Sure the bird is caged and cant physically bite you unless you come close enough, but does little in terms of solving behavioural issue. I know this is just one example but IMO parrots dont respond well to "punishment" and dont process it the same way a child can i.e. action/consequence. FAR better to determine the root of the problem and deal with it as such.
Also the cage is the birds sanctuary, or should be, and why force bird to go into a sanctuary as punishment. If and I am saying if, the bird starts viewing going into the cage as a negative thing, this just sets up another round of behaviour problems regarding caging when required/wanted by owner. How many times has someone posted saying the bird unwillingly does not want to be caged? This can stem from the bird viewing the cage in a negative light....which punishment is based around.

OK....this is just my opinion. No soap box. No picking fights. No Im right your wrong. No hard feelings. No ramming anything down someones throat. Just open dialogue and the way MY brain works around parrot ownership. I would like to hear others opinions and most of all I respect what others have to say. If it has worked for someone in changing underlying behaviour thats awesome. I am just wondering if it is the direct result of caging or something else. I am open for honest, fun, respectful dialogue and not open to those who malign others for a differing opinion.

Wayne

 

[cosmolove]

I don't put Dexter in his cage as a punishment at all. I put him in there so he can cool off and I can cool off. I'm happy his cage is his sanctuary [hints he has a 5ft wide cage] I put him in there to calm down and then I can walk away and calm down myself. Sometimes you have to take a step back and breathe before addressing anything.

The avoiding me when it comes to caging him is a game he plays and always has played since he was young. He loves to fly around like a wild banchi. I mean its just like trying to get a kid to come inside when they are outside having fun playing. They don't usually want to come running inside.

 

[Wayne361]

I don't put Dexter in his cage as a punishment at all. I put him in there so he can cool off and I can cool off. I'm happy his cage is his sanctuary [hints he has a 5ft wide cage] I put him in there to calm down and then I can walk away and calm down myself. Sometimes you have to take a step back and breathe before addressing anything.

The avoiding me when it comes to caging him is a game he plays and always has played since he was young. He loves to fly around like a wild banchi. I mean its just like trying to get a kid to come inside when they are outside having fun playing. They don't usually want to come running inside.

Ok great post. It is a cooling off period for you to better handle the situation. Makes perfect sense to me. Sorry for any mixup previously and I didnt intend to hurt anyone. I can understand and appreciate passion when it comes to bird ownership. Maybe we are more alike then we care to admit at this point LOL

If I may say something. Do you use food management with your birds (or bird in question)? Making sure you dont overfeed etc. Not only for health reasons but in regards to behaviour modification. If you correspond feeding times with caging (bed time) I think this will put an end to the game that your bird likes to play and ease your frustration significantly. Your bird will LOVE to come to his cage because he will quickly realize his bedtime snack awaits.

Just a suggestion and something that has worked for myself and others with same issue of caging.

Wayne

 

[cosmolove]

Ok great post. It is a cooling off period for you to better handle the situation. Makes perfect sense to me. Sorry for any mixup previously and I didnt intend to hurt anyone. I can understand and appreciate passion when it comes to bird ownership. Maybe we are more alike then we care to admit at this point LOL

If I may say something. Do you use food management with your birds (or bird in question)? Making sure you dont overfeed etc. Not only for health reasons but in regards to behaviour modification. If you correspond feeding times with caging (bed time) I think this will put an end to the game that your bird likes to play and ease your frustration significantly. Your bird will LOVE to come to his cage because he will quickly realize his bedtime snack awaits.

Just a suggestion and something that has worked for myself and others with same issue of caging.

Wayne

They get measured amounts of food each day and treats right at bed time. Usually it works with Dexter but some days he'd just rather fly around like a hooligan playing hard to get.

 

[sodakat]

Im almost afraid to post now Hahahaha. For the record if my opinion doesnt reflect anothers opinion thats fine. I respect all opinions even if I dont agree. If others could be so open-minded there would be greater dialogue in this world.

Now to address the above. I agree that by caging the bird it will take it out of a situation. My point is that it does little (again my opinion) to deter the situation requiring the caging. I call this a 'band-aid" approach meaning you might temporarily "fix" the problem but not addressing the underlying issue. For example if you have a nippy bird and cage as a result this wont solve the original issue of WHY the behaviour exists. Sure the bird is caged and cant physically bite you unless you come close enough, but does little in terms of solving behavioural issue. I know this is just one example but IMO parrots dont respond well to "punishment" and dont process it the same way a child can i.e. action/consequence. FAR better to determine the root of the problem and deal with it as such.
Also the cage is the birds sanctuary, or should be, and why force bird to go into a sanctuary as punishment. If and I am saying if, the bird starts viewing going into the cage as a negative thing, this just sets up another round of behaviour problems regarding caging when required/wanted by owner. How many times has someone posted saying the bird unwillingly does not want to be caged? This can stem from the bird viewing the cage in a negative light....which punishment is based around.

OK....this is just my opinion. No soap box. No picking fights. No Im right your wrong. No hard feelings. No ramming anything down someones throat. Just open dialogue and the way MY brain works around parrot ownership. I would like to hear others opinions and most of all I respect what others have to say. If it has worked for someone in changing underlying behaviour thats awesome. I am just wondering if it is the direct result of caging or something else. I am open for honest, fun, respectful dialogue and not open to those who malign others for a differing opinion.

Wayne

It can depend on the situation. For instance, I keep Eclectus in a flock setting. Their instincts control their actions in many cases, especially with their interaction with each other. What I might do if I lived along with one or two Eclectus aren't as useful when two adult females are trying to kill one another. Do you think either of them will station at this point?

There are limits to behavior modification. Sometimes physically modifying their surroundings makes more sense. Caging a raging female is the right thing to do at the moment. It difuses the situation and elminates bloodshed. I also own a bird net, although I seldom use it. Safety is priority one for me.

 

[Wayne361]

They get measured amounts of food each day and treats right at bed time. Usually it works with Dexter but some days he'd just rather fly around like a hooligan playing hard to get.

I would stop the chasing all together on those unwilling nights. Dont give him the satisfaction. Turn the tables so to speak. You control when he goes in not him. Withholding food should be motivation enough if food management is implemented. Maybe space out the feeding times more to increase motivation to go back to cage?

As others have said, I dont know you, your parrots so please let me ask you another question. Is this bird flight trained to do recall to hand on command? Mine will come to me EVERY time I call him cause he is conditioned to know good things happen when he comes to my hand on cue. Either treats, head scratches, beginning of training, play time etc. Oscar has to fly to my hand on cue before i put him in the cage. This does a couple things. One, continually using positive reenforcement in terms of recall training and two, I control when he goes into the cage (willingly of course since his evening meal awaits). Maybe recall training might help in your situation. Maybe not. Just throwing things out there.

Wayne

 

[cosmolove]

I would stop the chasing all together on those unwilling nights. Dont give him the satisfaction. Turn the tables so to speak. You control when he goes in not him. Withholding food should be motivation enough if food management is implemented. Maybe space out the feeding times more to increase motivation to go back to cage?

As others have said, I dont know you, your parrots so please let me ask you another question. Is this bird flight trained to do recall to hand on command? Mine will come to me EVERY time I call him cause he is conditioned to know good things happen when he comes to my hand on cue. Either treats, head scratches, beginning of training, play time etc. Oscar has to fly to my hand on cue before i put him in the cage. This does a couple things. One, continually using positive reenforcement in terms of recall training and two, I control when he goes into the cage (willingly of course since his evening meal awaits). Maybe recall training might help in your situation. Maybe not. Just throwing things out there.

Wayne

Walking away he just sees his victory and makes it that much harder later.

I won't withhold food for them to listen. I have a friend that use to do that with one of her macaws and I really just don't agree with it. Just my opinion tho, I just can't do it to them. I wouldn't ever consider doing this to my child so I could never do this to my birds.

 

[Wayne361]

It can depend on the situation. For instance, I keep Eclectus in a flock setting. Their instincts control their actions in many cases, especially with their interaction with each other. What I might do if I lived along with one or two Eclectus aren't as useful when two adult females are trying to kill one another. Do you think either of them will station at this point?

There are limits to behavior modification. Sometimes physically modifying their surroundings makes more sense. Caging a raging female is the right thing to do at the moment. It difuses the situation and elminates bloodshed. I also own a bird net, although I seldom use it. Safety is priority one for me.

Hi Cathy,

Multiple bird ownership isnt something I cant comment on as I havent experienced it yet and quite frankly dont have the time to offer the time that multiple birds require. (wouldnt be fair for the birds) That being said I am sure multiple bird ownership offers up its own/unique challenges of which i am sure I will encounter once time permits. I hope others can chime in here to offer their advice.

 

[sodakat]

Hi Cathy,

Multiple bird ownership isnt something I cant comment on as I havent experienced it yet and quite frankly dont have the time to offer the time that multiple birds require. (wouldnt be fair for the birds) That being said I am sure multiple bird ownership offers up its own/unique challenges of which i am sure I will encounter once time permits. I hope others can chime in here to offer their advice.

Actually, that is my point Wayne. We are all at different places in our path of being parrot owners. What works for some, does not necessarily work for another.

So even though Erica is talking about the behavior of just one bird, her household has multiple birds and dogs and people, all who affect her particular situation.

 

[mrstweet]

I occasionally go through this stage with Monkey. I call it getting too big for his britches. He'll randomly fly and attack, bite, or just be offensively onery. It's usually in the middle of the summer/hormones and a light clip does the trick. We spend extra time with him reinforcing the good stuff. Not sure if this helps you but it might.

 

[mrstweet]

Oh yes I forgot to mention usually I start with moving cage interiors, location within a room, etc.

Changing up their environment usually helps. It also teaches my guys to adapt!