ABV positive, very sick

[MommyBird]

Im so sorry

Is there any reason why you're not gavage feeding her?

When I was a bird groomer at the local bird store, I was uncomfortable toweling macaws at first. They flap and kick and bite and scream too. But after a while, it got better. Make sure you know how to towel correctly, so its not so hard on you

I asked at the vet to teach me gavage feeding and they said no, it was too dangerous for her.
She is very hard to both hold and feed alone and I am alone. The vet and tech together always have a time with her when they do nails.
It is very hard to get the towel on correctly and she just claws and squirms it away and then tries to curl backwards into a little ball.

 

[MommyBird]

The only way I convinced a reluctant bird to take meds was to cut a little square of bread and spread peanut butter on it, then turn the bread over and soak with medicine, then fold the medicine side in, leaving peanut butter flavor on outside. It is messy but it did work. If the bird is not at all interested in ANY food, I'm not sure this would work however.

So very, very sorry.

I can keep control long enough to pop the meds in, but it is the syringe feeding that fails.
She is odd about taking food from hand or if something strange is in her dish.
Pray for the meds to work and combat inflamation fast so maybe she will eat.

 

[Ziggymon]

I am so very sorry. You and your flock are in my heart.

 

[zuzanqa]

I am so sorry to hear this Debbie. A big hug for you and Chico and dear Polly. What a week.
I wish I had some advice. Could you board her the vets for a couple days so they feed her?
Really sorry. Will be thinking of you

 

[roxynoodle]

You know you have my support

I just thought of something else since your vet does Lafeber. Merlin is also eating these prescription Nutri-An cakes. At first she really wasn't interested and then after a few days they became her second favorite thing besides the formula. They are for birds eating at least a little and are high in protein to help them recover any muscle they lost/are losing from not eating enough.

 

[tozie12]

have you considered an avistraint? basically a parrot strait jacket.

AviStraint Large <BR>Avian Restraint Jacket


as far as feeding, when i used to give caleb meds i mixed it with warm babyfood. apple carrot or something high in vit A to help boost the immune system.


i'm so sorry you're going though this.



2013 has really just sucked. .... alot.

 

[Vegemite]

OMG, I am so very sorry to be reading this. My heart goes out to you, Chico and Polly. Many hugs and prayers coming your way

 

[Hankmacaw]

Debbie, I am so sorry that you are facing this monster. My very best to Chico and Polly.

I had good luck with almond butter and Harrison's Mash blended with Papaya and digestive enzymes with Hank. That was all he was eating and all that was keeping him alive. He was super easy to syringe feed, but maybe Polly will eat it one way or the other.

There really isn't enough research on PDD and there won't be until the money is available. Not the best of years - I agree.

 

[Birdlover]

So sorry Debbie It certainly is rough with a bird that is that upset by toweling. Hopefully with some time on the meds she will be more interested in food. Keeping you and your birds in my thoughts

 

[macawsmom]

Chico and Polly have tested positive for ABV.
Since other tests have ruled out other diseases, and xrays show some inflammation of proventriculus, the vet is saying PDD for them both, and Monday I started on Metacam and some Lafeber's Emeraid Omnivore food supplement.

As you can imagine I am just devastated beyond anything, and frightened for the rest of my flock. They do not have direct contact (they are kept on different floors and I have hot water radiator heating and no AC) but I certainly could have been a vector.
As to how Chico and Polly got it in the first place, I have no clue. I am very very aware and careful and their only exposure I can imagine is at the vet's. The vet believes Chico always had it but something unknown finally triggered it to PDD. I guess it is moot.

There just is not enough information about this disease and how to keep birds safe from it.

My huge problem at the moment is getting some liquid food supplements into them via syringe feeding (not tube feeding).
Once I catch him and get him towelled, Chico will eat a limited amount of formula before he says he is done. (about 7-10 mls). He eats a limited amount of other foods though.
Polly however fights me with everything in her. She bites, kicks, flaps, twists. Clamps her beak shut. If I get any formula in there she refuses to swallow. she will not swallow at all. For the small amount I can get in her I have finally decided it is not worth it and so I will insist on the metacam and no more. No way she is eating enough to keep going, but I am out of ideas, and the stress of towelling her is huge. Fortunately she started out overweight so has some buffer, although her consumption of other foods has decreased greatly the past 2 days. If anybody can say how to get her to swallow....I've tried simulating the feeding bob by grabbing her beak, maybe I don't reproduce it good enough.....She's so freaked by towelling though that maybe she can't respond.

I have not been doing well, and have been to talk to a grief counselor. It was helpful, but doesn't fix the real problem.
I'm tired and can't think of more to add. And there just isn't the science to tell us much more what to do. And then there are all the moral/ethical questions that are so difficult.
But I hope I will have your kind support and compassion.

Debbie,
I am so sorry, I know how you feel. What ever you do please do not give up. With PDD they are unable to digest regular foods and they need good nutrition if they are going to survive. First talk with your vet about putting them on Celecoxib, second you will need to get them to eat and it isn't going to be easy. Try a little bit every few hours and keep trying. This is the formula that I used, what worked for me. Nutritional Psittacine Diet (Mash Diet) by Alicia McWatters and Psittacine Handfeeding Formula by Alicia McWatters You are going to have to puree their food and try to spoon or syringe it to them. They can pull through this but it is going to be a fight. I just did a write up on another forum about Avian Bornavirus, should I post it here? Good nutrition is absolutely vital in the fight against ABV and the fight will never be won with pellets, they are just to hard for them to digest and offer only partial nutrition. I am here if you need help.

 

[MommyBird]

Debbie,
I am so sorry, I know how you feel. What ever you do please do not give up. With PDD they are unable to digest regular foods and they need good nutrition if they are going to survive. First talk with your vet about putting them on Celecoxib, second you will need to get them to eat and it isn't going to be easy. Try a little bit every few hours and keep trying. This is the formula that I used, what worked for me. Nutritional Psittacine Diet (Mash Diet) by Alicia McWatters and Psittacine Handfeeding Formula by Alicia McWatters You are going to have to puree their food and try to spoon or syringe it to them. They can pull through this but it is going to be a fight. I just did a write up on another forum about Avian Bornavirus, should I post it here? Good nutrition is absolutely vital in the fight against ABV and the fight will never be won with pellets, they are just to hard for them to digest and offer only partial nutrition. I am here if you need help.

Thanks Macawsmom. I think you should start a thread with your info on ABV. We all need to learn as much as we can.

Generally I have only fed fresh foods and seeds and very few pellets. I used pellets sort of as vitamins and something for them to crunch. I think perhaps that is why they do not like the taste of the Lafeber's Omnivore formula I am trying to feed them now.

I also never ran things thru the food processor. When I went to work, I was not around to remove it in a few hours and it made me nervous, so I would feed whole raw corn cob pieces, pea pods, beans, blueberries, peppers, seeds and nuts etc. Then after work they'd get stuff like sprouts, papaya pieces, steamed carrots, cooked grains, etc that I could take out before spoiling.

So, I keep offering foods that look like "food should look" to them. Sometimes they look at me like I am a pest when I am waving it in their faces. Sometimes they look in their dishes and kinda sigh because they want to eat but don't. They eat a little bit, Polly worries me most as she is the most off food.
I am getting discouraged so thanks for your encouragement.

 

[Saemma]

Thanks Macawsmom. I think you should start a thread with your info on ABV. We all need to learn as much as we can.

Generally I have only fed fresh foods and seeds and very few pellets. I used pellets sort of as vitamins and something for them to crunch. I think perhaps that is why they do not like the taste of the Lafeber's Omnivore formula I am trying to feed them now.

I also never ran things thru the food processor. When I went to work, I was not around to remove it in a few hours and it made me nervous, so I would feed whole raw corn cob pieces, pea pods, beans, blueberries, peppers, seeds and nuts etc. Then after work they'd get stuff like sprouts, papaya pieces, steamed carrots, cooked grains, etc that I could take out before spoiling.

So, I keep offering foods that look like "food should look" to them. Sometimes they look at me like I am a pest when I am waving it in their faces. Sometimes they look in their dishes and kinda sigh because they want to eat but don't. They eat a little bit, Polly worries me most as she is the most off food.
I am getting discouraged so thanks for your encouragement.

Perhaps they'd be more encouraged if you offered mashed warm food from a spoon? I know some parrots tend to be better eaters when sat with and spoon fed.

 

[MommyBird]

Oh, I did ask my vet why Metacam and not Celebrex and she said that now they think Metacam is better.
I am trying to check this out with the pdd group and a second-opinion vet (who is off today I think and didn't return my call yesterday).
Anyone here know for sure?

 

[zuzanqa]

to poor Polly, and Chico.

 

[MommyBird]

Chico will eat something he likes from a spoon, we did that at the start of trying to feed, but he stopped wanting to do that.
Polly has always been odd about even taking things from hands (she goes "snakey-head" and lunges) and always runs away from spoons as far and fast as she can, even when she sees Chico eating from it.

 

[Macawnutz]

Debbie your babies and you are in my prayers.

 

[roxynoodle]

Oh, I did ask my vet why Metacam and not Celebrex and she said that now they think Metacam is better.
I am trying to check this out with the pdd group and a second-opinion vet (who is off today I think and didn't return my call yesterday).
Anyone here know for sure?

Well, I shared with you Dr. O's opinion that Celebrex is considered the better one She was pretty distressed when I asked her about Metacam about a year ago as a person with a macaw who is ABV positive was prescribed Metacam instead by her vet. I can ask again for you to see if anything has changed that she is aware of. It didn't sound like her opinion was species specific either.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I am so sorry.

 

[suncoast]

Debbie, I haven't ignored you or forgot about you, I just wanted to sit and mull over this one, and after spending yesterday and last night pondering, I came to the conclusion that I got nothing I can offer you as far as practical advise. This is a great weight on your shoulders and it's going to be a tough one to carry. You and they are also going through a learning curve, which in and of itself is stressful. Just the hygiene requirements are daunting. I'm grateful that Macawmom came on to help. What I can tell you is that I will be praying for you and your babies. I also think that you should have a heart to heart with them, explain why you want them to eat and how important it is, and also ask them to let you know when they've had enough of the meds, the vet, the stress, etc., There comes a time when quality of life trumps quantity. They need to feel your love and there should be times when you guys can just sit and "be" without a struggle. And there are some healing energy meditations you can do. I posted this on the Sat the budgie's thread and I will share it here as well. Hold your hands up palms together about 1/2" to 1" apart. In about 30 seconds to a minute you should be able to feel the energy. Once you can recognize what it's supposed to feel like you can do the same thing to your babies. Hold your hand or hands 1/2" to 1" above the spot that needs healing, don't touch them, then focus all your love and healing attention on that area. It can't hurt them, and I can tell you that love is the most powerful force in the Universe. We are here for you.

Ginger

 

[Bokkapooh]

I asked at the vet to teach me gavage feeding and they said no, it was too dangerous for her.
She is very hard to both hold and feed alone and I am alone. The vet and tech together always have a time with her when they do nails.
It is very hard to get the towel on correctly and she just claws and squirms it away and then tries to curl backwards into a little ball.

She should be easy to towel if you do it snuggly. I'm surprised your vet has trouble with this (I'm not saying this as a "diss" on you). If you properly towel a bird. Thsy cannot move. Kinda like a mentally crazy person in those white jackets. The towel needs to be snug but not suffocating. So if she is able to squirm, she isn't snug enough. But take care when doing this if you're unsure as you can make it too tight.

Tube feeding is really easy once you know how to do it and can restrain snuggly.

I just worry that if you aren't able to tube feed her how is she getting enough to eat.