<A Must Read for Pluckers> Giardia A Health And Plucking Nightmare!

[Saemma]

Yikes!! Thanks for sharing!!

To you and Squeaky!!

 

[Lynne]

Mercedez,
The poop varies, Squeaky's are pretty much normal I guess that is one thing that threw the vets off but the immature parasites aren't always shed and the the adults are too big and fragile and burst before they can be seen under a micorscope.
Acute chronic or recurrent diarrhea a bad odor and lots of mucus may occur with the diarrhea.
This is why a 3 day test sent to a lab is critical. Also a bird may have no symptoms and get a clean bill of health, in essence that bird could be a carrier and even with Q infect your other birds, it is scary.

Renae,
Thank you very much I hope your mom's bird is OK!

Thanks Marlene,

I am still learnig and honestly think this is a bigger problem then a lot of us realize and something that is completely overlooked when it come down to medical reasons for plucking/barbering/mutilating.

 

[Lynne]

Thanks Kristen, honestly he has been on the meds for a little over a week and is still itchy, lastnight he decided to chew on 3 tail feathers. It did not help that the vet pulled all those tail feathers out he has had a heck of a time letting them grow in. Honestly he has had this for to long and I am not sure he will make it through this, the longer they have it it seems they don't recover and can not get rid of it. If anyone even thinks their bird has this get them tested right away, DO NOT WAIT.
In birds it is not easy to detect since the little ones are not often shed and the adults break up and are very fragile and go undetected even under a microscope.

 

[akijoy]

Gosh, Ollie has barbed off all his tail feathers, and his neck area is looking a little sparse. Could this be it? Can the avian vet do the kit for me, and send it off? Also, is it contagious to other birds? I googled it, and have read about the symptoms, and Ollie doesn't exhibit any of the other symptoms listed.

 

[Lynne]

I would contact your vet and see how they check for it but a 3 day test is the best way. The littles ones don't pass and if they do they are to small to see and the adults are so fragile they break up this is why it is so hard to detect and goes undetected in fecals.

Yes your other birds can catch it, birds can even be carriers and show no symptoms so this may be a test people want to do when adding a new bird to a flock.

Each birds symptoms can vary that is why I think it went undetected in Squeaky he held/gained weight and his poops were normal, so keep that in mind. Some may just chew at their tail, some the neck where Squeaky started.

Diagnosis is determined upon the identification of cysts or trophozoites in the feces. A popular, but often unreliable diagnostic test includes multiple direct-mount smears and flotation. Three consecutive negative tests are required before the feces are considered to be negative. Fecal samples must be examined within 10 minutes or be preserved in polyvinyl alcohol and later trichrome stained for test result accuracy. The fecal trichrome stain is a fairly reliable test. For this test, 3 morning fecal samples should be taken and examined. Test result accuracy increases when samples are taken during times of stress. An antigen assay test is also available for detecting Giardia. This involves either immunofluorescene (IF) or enzyme-linked immunoabsorbent assay (ELISA).

 

[akijoy]

Thanks, Lynne. I called my avian vet and made an appointment to get Ollie checked out.

 

[Lynne]

Did they say how they test? I know Squeaky had a few fecals and it was never found. They even did a stain in the vets office, notta, now this was early on. It is really important to catch giardia before it gets a foot hold on the bird.

We all know and have heard how plucking can become a habit even if a medical reason is found and corrected.
I hope Ollie is negative but better safe then sorry with this, I would not be it the situation I am in today if this would have been caught in Squeaky sooner.
Giardia can cause neurological problems and vomitimg also, this is why I'm saying it varies so much.

 

[Billie Faye]

Lynne, Thank you so much for this thread!
I know how heart breaking this has been for you and Squeaky.
I keep telling you...one day at a time, step by step....you now know the problem and are giving the meds....it's not going to be an over night thing as you know...don't get discouraged....Keep thinking POSITIVE...

 

[Lynne]

Oh Betty,
Thank you dear, we both had our hand full this past year and made it this far.
Thanks so much for listening and all your help as always. I am sitting here tonight depressed and your words of encouragement have helped
I have to get the word out about this, like I said better safe then sorry in a case like this. I just knew this was not a boredom or behavioral problem.

 

[akijoy]

I'm going to be armed with your information so if he doesn't have a good plan, I can suggest what you've tried.
'
I start losing my confidence in some of these avian vets, that don't seem to know what to do. I hope this vet visit will be productive. I don't want my bird to be a guinea pig either, getting lots of treatments that may not help. I asked if they have had much success in helping pluckers and the answers were vague. When I asked what kind of treatments they have used, they said some sprays, and also some medication, but when I asked what, they said it was like tranquilizers to calm them. I don't think that solves the problem at all, and I certainly don't want him to be doped up.

Óllie has new feathers coming in, and he has not plucked those out. Maybe going to the vet will make things worse. I am notorious for not wanting to go (even for myself) because I don't have much faith in them. I know that's terrible to say, but sometimes the problem just gets compounded, or a new problem worse problem arises.

Did they say how they test? I know Squeaky had a few fecals and it was never found. They even did a stain in the vets office, notta, now this was early on. It is really important to catch giardia before it gets a foot hold on the bird.

We all know and have heard how plucking can become a habit even if a medical reason is found and corrected.
I hope Ollie is negative but better safe then sorry with this, I would not be it the situation I am in today if this would have been caught in Squeaky sooner.
Giardia can cause neurological problems and vomitimg also, this is why I'm saying it varies so much.

 

[Lynne]

I understand what your saying and from another woman who's bird has this she told me stress can make the plucking worse.


It cost me over 110.00 for everything.
The kit which is 4.95, 43.00 for the lab and since I overnighted mine another 65.00 shipping to the lab in CA.


In the other sticky here posted by John it states it is thought that 75% of cockatiels carry this parasite, it's a sticky here written by Pamela Clark.
How many have tiels here on the board and how many here have birds that were purchaced from stores or breeders that had tiels?
Food for thought.

 

[hotfoot jackson]

THANK YOU I saw this on another site and posted the info you were so kind to provide to another site again...it has proved very helpful to my friends in Britain...once again I hope your little Squeeky heals fast and well.

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

at Lynne's request I merged information on Giardia sites in the first post

 

[4Z Birds]

75% of cockatiels carry this parasite
How many have tiels here on the board and how many here have birds that were purchaced from stores or breeders that had tiels?
Food for thought.

Scary thought...

One of the vets that I use agrees with this. Since I am occasionally asked to take in and rehome cockatiels, he suggested that I dose any new arrivals with metronidazole for two weeks.

May I ask what medication you were given? I've read that ronidazole is more effective against giardia, but my vet doesn't use it.

Thanks Kristen, honestly he has been on the meds for a little over a week and is still itchy, lastnight he decided to chew on 3 tail feathers. It did not help that the vet pulled all those tail feathers out he has had a heck of a time letting them grow in.

Ow...I hate when vets do that. It seems like it would make a bird feel even more miserable. I've yet to hear of a bird that the procedure has helped (other than in the case of a broken blood feather).


Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to pull this information together! You're awesome!

 

[Lynne]

hotfoot jackson,
Thank you, if you or any friends have any questions please feel free to ask away, Squeaky and I tank you for your kind words.


4Z Birds,
Thank you for more less confirming this about cockatiels, it really is a scary thought that this could be going on undected in a lot of birds. I just wish someone would publish more recent information, since a lot of people seem to think that because their birds don't have all the symptoms, because they own bigger birds
or maybe because they have a single bird this does not apply to them. I also think vets need to be re-educated about thiis, at least the 5 I saw.

Honestly I ordered the Ronidazole before the test results were in and did the stronger dosage as recommened for the smaller birds (I knew) without any change. Squeaky is now on his 9th day of Metronidazole, I am so afraid this went undetected for so long he may not recover this is why I would like to make people aware of how big of a problem this can be and why just as in any disease/condition early detection is key.
So is proper disinfecting of every surface which is a nightmare for me since my bird is fully flighted, any idea how many surfaces he has been in contact with...stagering.
The vet pulled my little ones tail feathers because some of them looked over due for a molt...ugh.
Thank you for taking the time to respond and for confirming what I am saying about this being a very underdiagnosised problem and that a staggering amount of cockatiels do indeed carry this parasite.
If you know of any vet willing to work with me I am looking for one, I am also thinking about Callin Debbie back over at Bird Safe for an interview now that I have the results, their lab and trying to contact Pamela Clark and talking to her about her plucking artilce she has wriiten so everyone can be brought up to date and we can be on the same page so to say.
The vet I am dealing with is lacking in support for me, the very well know vet I took Squeaky to wont talk to me so I am really out here on a limb on my own, sad. I feel the vets know know they were wrong so I am swinging in the wind at his expense.

 

[Danita]

Do you have any updates on Squeaky?

 

[Lynne]

Oh you are such a sweetheart for asking!
Hmmmm he is doing a little better but he just finished 30 days on his meds and I am not impressed, I knew it only has a 40-60% kill rate.
I am calling the vets tomorrow. I have also joined a feather picking group in which Joe and Debbie from Bird Safe are a part of and Dr. B is there also.

I posted this story on a few other forums and have gotten a ton of information on some holistic things to try as well as immune boosters. I am also working on Oxalates and Calcium binding, you would be amazed at what ratio of foods have to be fed so that the calcium does not bind and form crystals, just like us getting kidney stones,when we eat and drink to many things with oxalates in them. Oh and don't forget about the Phytates either.

I am looking at adding some flax oil and oregano oil to his diet, also Echinacea and DMZ. I had already added dried oregano but the oil maybe the way to go. Same with the booster I may switch over to DMZ and RPO.

I am learning so much I just hope it is time to help Squeaky get some quality of life back as well as mine.

So that is about it, I wish I could say he was all better but this went undetected for so long

 

[Saemma]

Oh you are such a sweetheart for asking!
Hmmmm he is doing a little better but he just finished 30 days on his meds and I am not impressed, I knew it only has a 40-60% kill rate.
I am calling the vets tomorrow. I have also joined a feather picking group in which Joe and Debbie from Bird Safe are a part of and Dr. B is there also.

I posted this story on a few other forums and have gotten a ton of information on some holistic things to try as well as immune boosters. I am also working on Oxalates and Calcium binding, you would be amazed at what ratio of foods have to be fed so that the calcium does not bind and form crystals, just like us getting kidney stones,when we eat and drink to many things with oxalates in them. Oh and don't forget about the Phytates either.

I am looking at adding some flax oil and oregano oil to his diet, also Echinacea and DMZ. I had already added dried oregano but the oil maybe the way to go. Same with the booster I may switch over to DMZ and RPO.

I am learning so much I just hope it is time to help Squeaky get some quality of life back as well as mine.

So that is about it, I wish I could say he was all better but this went undetected for so long

Squeaky could NOT ask for a better Mom. I am very impressed with your devotion and love for him.

 

[Lynne]

Squeaky could NOT ask for a better Mom. I am very impressed with your devotion and love for him.

Thank you so very much Saemma, Squeaky goes everywhere with me because I refuse to collar him and I refuse to drug him and set him in his cage to be miserable, IMO that is no quality of life. We are sitll sleeping in the recliner 7 months now OMGOSH ...Giardia thrive in stress also so it is a no win situation. We are going shopping today he loves car rides!

Of course my family is upset that I don't go places and have missed out on holidays and have even shelfed my own health issues. My choice and I will do anything I can to help him, I guess I feel guilty, I took him to the best avian vets I could find and just feel he has been let down.

I am hoping by boosting his immune system and making sure his diet is completely balanced I will be able to cut back on the medication, the meds can have severe side effects and if that happens there is no turning back, the damage would be done.

That is why I am pushing for people who have birds that either develop Polyfolliculitis, mutilate or start plucking out of the blue to have their bird tested. When bringing a new bird into the home, this should be part of the wellness check since birds can be carriers..i.e cockatiels as mentioned above.
One last thing...this is not just a small bird problem!
Thanks again I do feel so guilty some days and just you mentioning how much I am doing helps remind me that I am and have and still am.

 

[northstarhawaii]

WOW! Your ordeal sounds EXACTLY like what I am currently going through with my African Grey, Spencer. I completely understand and SO feel for your experience with Squeaky; right down to all the vet appts, the testing (blood/fecal), the mites, the cage cleanings, the 'up all nights', the EMOTIONAL rollercoaster.........more vet visits, online researching..etc,etc...I have never completely let go of the fact that he may have Giardia, even though he's had 3 tests including this advanced test - all negative. He is itchy all the time, picking out his fluff feathers under his wings, back and inner legs - I know he's not a basket case (maybe I am - LOL), but he's not...I will order the Giardia test kit from Birdsafe and I so appreciate your taking the time to share your story and I absolutely wish you and Squeaky the very, very best. I'll keep you posted with Spencer. Lots of Aloha to you and Squeaky...Debbie/Spencer