Lynne
Strolling the yard
- Joined
- 10/16/09
- Messages
- 120
- Real Name
- Lynne
This could go under health or stay here, your choice. I do have a ton of information and links.
Where to start, I guess I could by saying that a few weeks ago I took matters into my own hands and sent in a 3 day test for Giardia to a lab in CA, it was confirmed that Squeaky has Giardia, the road to diagnosis has been long, frustrating and at times so heartbreaking.
Rewinding back to August of 2009, I'll make this as short as possible, belive me a lot has been left out.
I had noticed Squeaky starting to pace in his cage, something he has never done, he also started to scratch at the base of his neck and where his wings come together, I knew right away something was not right. I then decided to cover his cage with a light colored sheet and place a light colored pillow case in the bottom of his cage over night to check for mites, nothing showed up.
I took Squeaky to a local non avain vet, his exam went well, poops normal, weight normal, he was treated for mites topically, there are mites that can live in the quills and under the skin, so he was treated as a precaution. Another thing I did was to take his cage apart put everything in the tub and poured boiling water on everything that could be saved and threw away what could not. Needless to say, this did not solve our problem.
I then asked around and checked as to who was the best avian vet that I could get him to. The vet that kept coming up is in Tampa, an almost 2 an a half our round trip each way, with my back, neck and shoulders and the medications I take for them made the drive a very difficult one but I managed.
The vet we saw is a D.V.M., Diplomate ABVP - Avian, very well known and has written books on avain dermatology, a few of you here know who this is. After a brief exam she informed me Squeaky had CUD (Chronic Ulcerative Dermititis) I was dedvastated, I inquired as to the treatment and to my dismay there is not a lot that can be done (mostly supportive care). I inquired about human medications and was told many have been tried without success. Another thing I was told was that some of his tail feathers looked over due for a molt so about 4 were pulled, this was on a Wednesday.
On Friday (2 days later) I got a call at home from this vet and was told that she may have jumped to a conclusion about the CUD so I made another appointment and went back for another visit.
On this visit he was literally put under a microscope and checked over (checking for mites and skin condition) once again more tail feathers were pulled and I was told to place him and his cage on my screened in back porch to expose him to sights, sounds, humidity etc. HUH? WTH? So OK I did take him out there a few times with my supervision but nothing changed. Now he was left with a total of only 2 tail feathers and as they started to grow in he was chewing them down to nubs, I was devastated!
Fast forward a bit, there is another vet locally, old school, so we went on a number of visits with this vet. I was told to bath Squeaky every day, to use the Soother ointment and to add an anti-histamine to his water, still no change.We then had feathers pulled and sent off to a lab to check for bacteria or fungal growth, none detected.
By this time Squeaky started looking pretty ragged, he was over preening and his skin was becoming red and inflammed, so I started a food elmination diet. I was also reading everything I could on plucking causes and symptoms he was exhibiting, I came across an article on Avianweb.com there right in front of me was a picture of a lovebird showing the places Squeaky had advanced to picking and scratching, I printed all of this out including the picture but the vet did not belive me.
It was right about this time I also found polyfolliculitis on his neck and have since found one spot on his tail, one of the things that can cause polyfolliculitis is Giardia!
Ok so now I decided to go back to Tampa to the vet Squeaky first saw when I got him, this vet was also a D.V.M., Diplomate ABVP - Avian and studied under the other avian vet in Tampa, he recommended a biopsy and purchasing "Captive Foraging" by M. Scott Echols, DVM, Dipl ABVP. I explained to the vet Squeaky was always provided with such things and had given all this up to itch and scratch 24/7. I brought up Giardia plus the fact he had now developed polyfolliculitis but I swear these vets wear blinders.
So once again back to a local vet, this time to the same practice as the first one I had tried but a different vet. Upon Squeaky's exam she stated this was classic Giardia symptoms and gave me the medication for treatment.
Squeaky is now into his first week and I am seeing improvement only time will tell.
I never collared Squeaky due to the fact that I knew something was making him so itchy and besides when I did try to collar him he never gave up trying to get it off.
Since the polyfolliculitis was on his neck this made it also difficult, no wonder it almost drove him insane.
I do not recommend this to anyone but for the last 5 months I have slept with him in the recliner otherwise he more then likely would have self mutilated. He came close several times due to his tail.
This poor guy has been on Soother spray, ointment, Rescue Remedy, diazepam, been treated for mites, bathed in aloe and GSE due to him chewing off tail feathers, the list goes on and on and on. There were a ton of other things tried on this poor bird and yes Squeaky did become hormonal about the same time but I know him and I knew this was not hormonal, this was not boredom.
Now where did the Giardia come from? I have done extensive research with conflicting ideas about Giardia.
If you have a bird that starts plucking or picking/itching any where, or have a rescue or rehome that does I highly recommend the 3 day test where the vials are sent off to a lab.
Squeaky had been checked a few times in the vets offices and nothing found. None of the avian vets did a fecal.
Giardia can be easily missed since most vets can not afford the high powered microscopes powerful enough to see the Giardia. Also Giardia is not passed everytime.
We still have a long way to go and I would not say we are out of the woods yet, Giardia robs the birds of nutrients and can cause malnutrition. His poops are still good and so is his weight, I have no idea how we managed this but we did. I have always given him the best of foods and have always kept his cage and toys extremely clean. He is not the same bird he was, I hope one day he will be and I have not been able to find out if the polyfolliculitis will resolve itself.
I could write a book on what I have learned if you have any questions please ask or PM me I can provide a ton of information. I suspect there are a lot of birds out there dealing with this and are misdiagnosed like Squeaky was and by some of the best avian vets.
Squeaky had been not one but two of the best vets in FL if not the USA. Don't take it for granted that plucking/mutilating or itching is a behavioral or a hormonal problem, please have your bird tested, the kit, the lab and over night shipping costs about 100.00.
I dare to just guess that between vets, tests, foods, medications and what not's I have spent well in excess over 2500.00 but that is a moot point, what hurts the most is the suffering Squeaky has been put through, as well as myself.
To those of you that have been there to support me and help Squeaky, bless your hearts, we never would have made it this far without you!
Giardia web sites for more information.
Symptoms vary bird to bird and your bird might not exhibit every symptom. Birds may not even pluck, they can be carriers (just as with other diseases) so when adding a new flock member you may want to have the bird tested.
Giardia robs birds system of nutrition since they reside in the upper GI tract so they may have poor feathering. That is why I feel this maybe overlooked in so many cases, there are a lot of variables.
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/giardia.html
http://www.avianweb.com/giardia.html
I wanted to add this information taken from the web site John posted since I spoke to Debbie (several times and at great length) over at Bird Safe about Giardia. This was one of the reasons I decided to run my own test after 5 vets.
In some cases, a bird’s behavior when picking and the areas of the body upon which he feather picks will suggest further testing. For example, a bird that acts “itchy” and “agitated,” who interrupts eating and playing with toys to pull out feathers, or who vocalizes when removing feathers, should have a Giardia test. Giardia is an intestinal parasite that appears to be more common among parrots than has been thought in the past.
(Not all birds will vocalize and nor will all birds start off agitated and itchy)
Joe and Debbie Arbogast have, in cooperation with their veterinarian and a reputable laboratory, been offering a Giardia screening clinic at their website, www.birdsafe.com, now for over a year. Their motivation for doing so has come from their own experiences with feather picking birds that suffered from giardiasis. Mr. Arbogast, having recently compiled the figures from the last year, has found that approximately 18% of feather picking birds tested through this clinic had positive test results. This figure is even higher for conures. Further, since false negative results are common, it would appear that the incidence might be even higher than these figures reflect.
It has long been believed within the veterinary community that larger parrots rarely have Giardia, although it has been acknowledged for some time now that approximately 75% of cockatiels carry this parasite. It is also quite common in budgerigars, lovebirds and Grey-cheeked Parakeets. Because of Mr. Arbogast’s work, I have become convinced that any feather picking bird should have a fecal trichrome test, wherein the owner collects the samples over the course of three consecutive days.
Where to start, I guess I could by saying that a few weeks ago I took matters into my own hands and sent in a 3 day test for Giardia to a lab in CA, it was confirmed that Squeaky has Giardia, the road to diagnosis has been long, frustrating and at times so heartbreaking.
Rewinding back to August of 2009, I'll make this as short as possible, belive me a lot has been left out.
I had noticed Squeaky starting to pace in his cage, something he has never done, he also started to scratch at the base of his neck and where his wings come together, I knew right away something was not right. I then decided to cover his cage with a light colored sheet and place a light colored pillow case in the bottom of his cage over night to check for mites, nothing showed up.
I took Squeaky to a local non avain vet, his exam went well, poops normal, weight normal, he was treated for mites topically, there are mites that can live in the quills and under the skin, so he was treated as a precaution. Another thing I did was to take his cage apart put everything in the tub and poured boiling water on everything that could be saved and threw away what could not. Needless to say, this did not solve our problem.
I then asked around and checked as to who was the best avian vet that I could get him to. The vet that kept coming up is in Tampa, an almost 2 an a half our round trip each way, with my back, neck and shoulders and the medications I take for them made the drive a very difficult one but I managed.
The vet we saw is a D.V.M., Diplomate ABVP - Avian, very well known and has written books on avain dermatology, a few of you here know who this is. After a brief exam she informed me Squeaky had CUD (Chronic Ulcerative Dermititis) I was dedvastated, I inquired as to the treatment and to my dismay there is not a lot that can be done (mostly supportive care). I inquired about human medications and was told many have been tried without success. Another thing I was told was that some of his tail feathers looked over due for a molt so about 4 were pulled, this was on a Wednesday.
On Friday (2 days later) I got a call at home from this vet and was told that she may have jumped to a conclusion about the CUD so I made another appointment and went back for another visit.
On this visit he was literally put under a microscope and checked over (checking for mites and skin condition) once again more tail feathers were pulled and I was told to place him and his cage on my screened in back porch to expose him to sights, sounds, humidity etc. HUH? WTH? So OK I did take him out there a few times with my supervision but nothing changed. Now he was left with a total of only 2 tail feathers and as they started to grow in he was chewing them down to nubs, I was devastated!
Fast forward a bit, there is another vet locally, old school, so we went on a number of visits with this vet. I was told to bath Squeaky every day, to use the Soother ointment and to add an anti-histamine to his water, still no change.We then had feathers pulled and sent off to a lab to check for bacteria or fungal growth, none detected.
By this time Squeaky started looking pretty ragged, he was over preening and his skin was becoming red and inflammed, so I started a food elmination diet. I was also reading everything I could on plucking causes and symptoms he was exhibiting, I came across an article on Avianweb.com there right in front of me was a picture of a lovebird showing the places Squeaky had advanced to picking and scratching, I printed all of this out including the picture but the vet did not belive me.
It was right about this time I also found polyfolliculitis on his neck and have since found one spot on his tail, one of the things that can cause polyfolliculitis is Giardia!
Ok so now I decided to go back to Tampa to the vet Squeaky first saw when I got him, this vet was also a D.V.M., Diplomate ABVP - Avian and studied under the other avian vet in Tampa, he recommended a biopsy and purchasing "Captive Foraging" by M. Scott Echols, DVM, Dipl ABVP. I explained to the vet Squeaky was always provided with such things and had given all this up to itch and scratch 24/7. I brought up Giardia plus the fact he had now developed polyfolliculitis but I swear these vets wear blinders.
So once again back to a local vet, this time to the same practice as the first one I had tried but a different vet. Upon Squeaky's exam she stated this was classic Giardia symptoms and gave me the medication for treatment.
Squeaky is now into his first week and I am seeing improvement only time will tell.
I never collared Squeaky due to the fact that I knew something was making him so itchy and besides when I did try to collar him he never gave up trying to get it off.
Since the polyfolliculitis was on his neck this made it also difficult, no wonder it almost drove him insane.
I do not recommend this to anyone but for the last 5 months I have slept with him in the recliner otherwise he more then likely would have self mutilated. He came close several times due to his tail.
This poor guy has been on Soother spray, ointment, Rescue Remedy, diazepam, been treated for mites, bathed in aloe and GSE due to him chewing off tail feathers, the list goes on and on and on. There were a ton of other things tried on this poor bird and yes Squeaky did become hormonal about the same time but I know him and I knew this was not hormonal, this was not boredom.
Now where did the Giardia come from? I have done extensive research with conflicting ideas about Giardia.
- You do not have to have Giardia just because your bird does, I doubt anyone knows how many strains there are.
- Could he of had it this since birth, could the stress of hormones have brought it out?
- Water? I am on city but give him filtered, you can still have Giardia on city water. Now he gets boiled water.
- What veggies Squeaky does eat always got washed in hot water and cleaned, so be very careful. How can you clean in between every nook of a veggie like broccoli? From what I have read, high temperatures, boiling is needed to kill the cysts.
If you have a bird that starts plucking or picking/itching any where, or have a rescue or rehome that does I highly recommend the 3 day test where the vials are sent off to a lab.
Squeaky had been checked a few times in the vets offices and nothing found. None of the avian vets did a fecal.
Giardia can be easily missed since most vets can not afford the high powered microscopes powerful enough to see the Giardia. Also Giardia is not passed everytime.
We still have a long way to go and I would not say we are out of the woods yet, Giardia robs the birds of nutrients and can cause malnutrition. His poops are still good and so is his weight, I have no idea how we managed this but we did. I have always given him the best of foods and have always kept his cage and toys extremely clean. He is not the same bird he was, I hope one day he will be and I have not been able to find out if the polyfolliculitis will resolve itself.
I could write a book on what I have learned if you have any questions please ask or PM me I can provide a ton of information. I suspect there are a lot of birds out there dealing with this and are misdiagnosed like Squeaky was and by some of the best avian vets.
Squeaky had been not one but two of the best vets in FL if not the USA. Don't take it for granted that plucking/mutilating or itching is a behavioral or a hormonal problem, please have your bird tested, the kit, the lab and over night shipping costs about 100.00.
I dare to just guess that between vets, tests, foods, medications and what not's I have spent well in excess over 2500.00 but that is a moot point, what hurts the most is the suffering Squeaky has been put through, as well as myself.
To those of you that have been there to support me and help Squeaky, bless your hearts, we never would have made it this far without you!
Giardia web sites for more information.
Symptoms vary bird to bird and your bird might not exhibit every symptom. Birds may not even pluck, they can be carriers (just as with other diseases) so when adding a new flock member you may want to have the bird tested.
Giardia robs birds system of nutrition since they reside in the upper GI tract so they may have poor feathering. That is why I feel this maybe overlooked in so many cases, there are a lot of variables.
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/giardia.html
http://www.avianweb.com/giardia.html
I wanted to add this information taken from the web site John posted since I spoke to Debbie (several times and at great length) over at Bird Safe about Giardia. This was one of the reasons I decided to run my own test after 5 vets.
In some cases, a bird’s behavior when picking and the areas of the body upon which he feather picks will suggest further testing. For example, a bird that acts “itchy” and “agitated,” who interrupts eating and playing with toys to pull out feathers, or who vocalizes when removing feathers, should have a Giardia test. Giardia is an intestinal parasite that appears to be more common among parrots than has been thought in the past.
(Not all birds will vocalize and nor will all birds start off agitated and itchy)
Joe and Debbie Arbogast have, in cooperation with their veterinarian and a reputable laboratory, been offering a Giardia screening clinic at their website, www.birdsafe.com, now for over a year. Their motivation for doing so has come from their own experiences with feather picking birds that suffered from giardiasis. Mr. Arbogast, having recently compiled the figures from the last year, has found that approximately 18% of feather picking birds tested through this clinic had positive test results. This figure is even higher for conures. Further, since false negative results are common, it would appear that the incidence might be even higher than these figures reflect.
It has long been believed within the veterinary community that larger parrots rarely have Giardia, although it has been acknowledged for some time now that approximately 75% of cockatiels carry this parasite. It is also quite common in budgerigars, lovebirds and Grey-cheeked Parakeets. Because of Mr. Arbogast’s work, I have become convinced that any feather picking bird should have a fecal trichrome test, wherein the owner collects the samples over the course of three consecutive days.
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