Why don't more people adopt?

[atvchick95]

With respect to the recurring theme of adoption costs:

When you buy a baby bird from a breeder, what costs has the breeder incurred with respect to the bird?

Now, when you adopt a bird from rescue, what costs has the rescue incurred? Keep in mind that many of the birds they have have come from abuse/neglect situations, some have come to them with significant health issues, and almost all of them have been housed and cared for by the rescue for much longer than a breeder has a baby or young bird.

Yes, you may be adopting a bird that has had none of those costs associated with it, but the adoption fee you are paying is helping to defray the expenses of the bird who needs $3,000 worth of vet care.

It seems to me that we human beings want what we want, and in pursuit of what we want, we treat the living beings we profess to love like any other commodity, to be bought and sold. We may love the bird (or cat or dog) whom we have purchased, just as we purchase a car that we *love*, but IMO, we can’t honestly say that we *love* birds (or cats or dogs or other animals) in general as long as we’re pursuing what we WANT, rather than doing something to alleviate the suffering of the many homeless birds (or cats or dogs or other animals) whom we could benefit. And then we justify ourselves by saying that adoption is “too hard”, or that rescuers are corrupt, or whatever it takes to make ourselves feel good about our decisions about these living, feeling, beings.

What I’m going to say next is going to be even less popular than what I just said. Not counting the budgies I had when I was a kid, I’ve been living with birds nonstop for 24 years, and the longer I live with them, the more strongly I believe this. Unlike the animals we humans have domesticated, who have, over many thousands of years, adapted as species to live life with humans, birds are wild, although we may have *tamed* some, and now breed many into captivity. No matter the lengths I go to, and even if I were rich and could build a large flight aviary of the kind found at some zoos, there is nothing I can or could do that would even begin to approximate what my birds’ lives would be if they were living the life that they should have in the wild. They will never have the joy of truly free flight; they will never have their families or a real flock of their own kind. What we, as a species, have taken from them, we can never restore. The only really humane thing we can do for them is to take the best care we can of the ones from whom we have already stolen so much, and not facilitate any more being brought into a life which is just a sad shadow of the life they should have.

have you ever bred birds? or even hand fed birds?

i spend on Food alone not counting hand feeding formula at least 300 every 2 months on all my birds

I do NOT get no where near that when I sell a bird. My budgies I sell for $10 (parent raised)
Lovebirds- hand fed $50 each
I might sell a bird once or twice every 6-8 months
I have birds getting ready to turn a year old That only cost 10.00

I'm not raising their price because they're costing me MORE money in food.

I've actually lowered every lovebird I have for sale, any where from 50 bucks down to 20 bucks lower than what they started at when they were just weaned

I had to lower every cockatiel I had for sale from 90-50 dollars lower just so they would be sold.

when I do sell them, I sure don't make anything to defray the costs of feeding them because a $10 dollar budgie isn't going to make up for the Few hundred dollars in food it has eaten in the last year its lived here.

I keep a record of everything we buy for the birds, from food, to air purifiers, Every little thing that is for the birds is recorded ,including birds i've sold and bought ( and in the last 2 years i have only bought 6 birds)
at the end of the year when I finish the records off. I am always IN THE HOLE I never come out I always Spend more than I've "made" and its not a few dollars in the hole its a few hundred dollars in the hole!

so its not just Rescues who spend a lot of money housing birds

 

[Bokkapooh]

I agree with Kelli. It depends on the breeder.

When I bred and raised baby birds in my care, I made sure that baby was raised on good handfeeding formula, and that they went home with a (PROPER size) cage if their new home doesnt have a proper sized one for them.

I educated the new home on proper bird care about pellets, seed, fresh veggies and fruits and other healthy food items.

I educated the new home on toys, and having enough toys inside the cage, types and variety of toys and perches inside the cage, and about pro flight and pro clip, and about being allowed out of their cage and to be able to exercise.

I educated the owner on vet care, too.

And golly so much more.

And you know what, each and everyone of my babies that I have raised in my home went home with 5 POUNDS(!) of pellets and/or seed, and TOYS (about 5-10 each).

And when the new owners came here, we discussed it too. They saw how my birds lived with their cages stacked with toys and playstands to be on and very healthy diet! And all of my babies I raised were abundance weaned too.

Ofcourse I put a lot more energy into raising baby birds than I was getting back for it, but this was a hobby for me, when I did breed and raise baby birds.

Ofcourse many breeders are NOT like this and most of them are all about the money and they dont care at all about their birds. And worst yet, they dont seem to really care about their BREEDER birds either(horribly small aviary or cage with only pine branches and NO toys or variety of diet).

 

[Birdasaurus]

And then we justify ourselves by saying that adoption is “too hard”, or that rescuers are corrupt, or whatever it takes to make ourselves feel good about our decisions about these living, feeling, beings.

However some "rescues" ARE corrupt, and you can't judge people for saying that truth. I don't think it's fair to tell someone that they're justifying themselves in getting what they want because they've actually been turned down by the only rescue in their area for a ridiculous reason (the "too hard" ones) or don't trust the people running it. I wouldn't want to feed into a crappy rescue/broker anymore than I'd want to a crappy breeder or store.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Originally Posted by Ziggymon
And then we justify ourselves by saying that adoption is “too hard”, or that rescuers are corrupt, or whatever it takes to make ourselves feel good about our decisions about these living, feeling, beings.

There are some horrible parrot "rescues"/"sanctuaries" out there, many are hoarders and house their birds in HORRIBLE conditions.

Perhaps if you read all the posts, you'll see what many of these horrible rescues are about.

 

[Ziggymon]

I don't dispute that hobbyist breeders may well put more into their baby birds than they recoup. That doesn't change the fact that they're putting more birds into a "market" where there are already many birds without a home.

I also don't dispute that there are hoarders and others masquerading as "rescues", and that those people should be shut down instead of in any way encouraged to carry on.

The fact is that, apart from the inadequacy of even the best home that I addressed in my prior post, we are dealing with long lived animals here. Even if the initial sale is to a *good* home, the likelihood is that any given bird will not remain in that home all its life. I started the poll about how long people had their birds after hearing from a rescue worker that the large parrots are generally surredered at the ten year mark. If you look at that poll, you'll see that, even here, which is filled by knowlegeable and well intentioned individuals, few have had a particular bird for more than ten years. I know everone intends to keep their birds, but I'm also seeing a lot of rehoming stories.

What is also interesting is that I'm not seeing mention of many birds who are living to the life expectancy given for their particular species.

 

[Bokkapooh]

I don't dispute that hobbyist breeders may well put more into their baby birds than they recoup. That doesn't change the fact that they're putting more birds into a "market" where there are already many birds without a home.

That belief is what got me out of the breeding business. And knowing that even my babies that went into great homes, homes that were educated people(!) might be rehomed.

However, we cannot take away breeders. Just like we cant take away other things, as people will then begin to claim even more so "my rights are being taken away". But what we can do is press for Animal Welfare to improve and making sure breeders take utmost care of the babies as well as their breeding birds. And that only people who pass written tests or take a class, should ever take on a parrot or any animal. And make sure them people are educated and can properly take care of the birds or animals they take on. So we wouldnt have an over population problem.

 

[Allessa]

If i knew back then what i know now, mine wouldve all been rescues/rehomes. I got many of mine as babies because at the time i was looking the babies were the only ones available. Once ive set my mind into wanting a breed..im pretty impatient about it.

Most of mine came from private breeders. Couple were rehomes. Like many here, i tried one rescue, and they about died when they seen how many birds i have. (I have 9 now, but at the time i think i had 12) so they probably looked at me like some kind of bird hoarder. After that i was afraid to try another rescue. I guess i can see it from their eyes, but to just quickly turn down what wouldve been a wonderful forever home for the bird is just unfair. Another issue one had was that i rent. Apparently that wasnt a "stable" enough home for a parrot.

 

[Birdasaurus]

I started the poll about how long people had their birds after hearing from a rescue worker that the large parrots are generally surredered at the ten year mark. If you look at that poll, you'll see that, even here, which is filled by knowlegeable and well intentioned individuals, few have had a particular bird for more than ten years.

The math side of me has to point out that the poll is biased because there was no option for people who owned birds for their entire natural life, and it included all parrots, not just the large guys. Thus, people like myself who have kept budgies prior to any larger birds fell in the under 10 years option. So even though I have never rehomed one of my parrots, people like myself have expanded that portion of your poll. Thus, since there is no distinction between WHY people responded in that under 10 years mark, it cannot be concluded that even knowledgeable and well-intentioned people rehome birds.

There's no doubt there's an overpopulation of parrots, but as long as people breed them, baby birds hatched into the world will need a home too....

 

[mariec]

I think this thread does a HUGE diservice to rescues. MOST rescue's do an amazing job with what little support they get and what tools they have at thier disposal. Let me tell you rescources are minimal, at best.

My husband and I have never asked, nor accepted donations and we will not until our 501(c) 3 comes through in the fall.

Our highest adoption fee is 200 and we never recoup even half of what we've spent on the birds that come through. Hell the vet exam itself costs that much, not to mention food and toys and time, and nearly all of the birds are mess in one way or another.

As far as I'm concerned if someone can't take the time to fill out a 3-4 page adoption application, ,come to spend time getting to know the birds, and jump through a couple of hoops, they can go to .... wherever the heck else they want to.

We don't adopt to save ourselves hassels, and you don't adopt to get a cheap animal. You adopt to perform a service, a charitable action, for the benifit of the animal and to be a part in helping to solve a problem in society. Period.

 

[Ziggymon]

The math side of me has to point out that the poll is biased because there was no option for people who owned birds for their entire natural life, and it included all parrots, not just the large guys. Thus, people like myself who have kept budgies prior to any larger birds fell in the under 10 years option. So even though I have never rehomed one of my parrots, people like myself have expanded that portion of your poll. Thus, since there is no distinction between WHY people responded in that under 10 years mark, it cannot be concluded that even knowledgeable and well-intentioned people rehome birds.

There's no doubt there's an overpopulation of parrots, but as long as people breed them, baby birds hatched into the world will need a home too....

I'm not assuming from the poll that people are re-homing, just because they haven't had a particular bird for more than ten years. There are lots of reasons for that, including that people are relatively new to birds.

How many birds are living to their life expectancy would be another interesting poll. From what I read, for example, budgies' life expectancy is 15-18 years, yet none of my three made it past 12. Likewise, does anyone have one of the big parrots who actually has made it close to life expectancy? I wonder how well we are all doing in this regard.

 

[Ziggymon]

That belief is what got me out of the breeding business. And knowing that even my babies that went into great homes, homes that were educated people(!) might be rehomed.

However, we cannot take away breeders. Just like we cant take away other things, as people will then begin to claim even more so "my rights are being taken away". But what we can do is press for Animal Welfare to improve and making sure breeders take utmost care of the babies as well as their breeding birds. And that only people who pass written tests or take a class, should ever take on a parrot or any animal. And make sure them people are educated and can properly take care of the birds or animals they take on. So we wouldnt have an over population problem.

I agree; prohibition creates its own set of problems. Education and regulation are key.

 

[Birdasaurus]

How many birds are living to their life expectancy would be another interesting poll. From what I read, for example, budgies' life expectancy is 15-18 years, yet none of my three made it past 12. Likewise, does anyone have one of the big parrots who actually has made it close to life expectancy? I wonder how well we are all doing in this regard.

This is a VERY interesting issue. I've read vet opinions that the budgies expectancy is declining because of the mass (aka poor quality) breeding for chains is weakening the gene pool. I've seen somewhere that an estimated average for a budgie as 3-5 years My oldest was 8, my youngest that died was 2 1/2. All were chain purchases since this was before the prevalence of CL for rehoming (although many of those are originally from chains as well).

I'll be interested to see if my non-chain boys and girls are different. Although currently one of my rehomes that is originally from a chain is 7 and acts as spunky as the 1 year olds.

 

[Holiday]

The fact is that, apart from the inadequacy of even the best home that I addressed in my prior post, we are dealing with long lived animals here. Even if the initial sale is to a *good* home, the likelihood is that any given bird will not remain in that home all its life.

Yes, this is absolutely true. The average parrot has between 5 and 7 homes, depending on which stats you look at. And not all of these are long-lived birds like 'toos and macaws, who can naturally require more than one home. I keep an eye on the classifieds to see if I can draw my own informal conclusions about large parrot rehoming, and what I see forms a very clear pattern--many macaws, toos, and greys seem to be rehomed between 4 and 7 years of age--just about the time hormones set in.

 

[Theresa]

My husband and I have never asked, nor accepted donations and we will not until our 501(c) 3 comes through in the fall.

Marie, you do take donations. I am not saying you shouldnt, but you can't say you don't when it's right on your site How To Help and Sponsor a bird

 

[jmfleish]

With respect to the recurring theme of adoption costs:

When you buy a baby bird from a breeder, what costs has the breeder incurred with respect to the bird?

Well, I suppose that all depends on whether or not you go to a good breeder, in my eyes. I have one breeder that I trust completely and totally, Pat, my Ekkie breeder and she's going broke doing what she loves.

She just had her three Palms in for an annual exam along with the last costs associated with trying to save her Eclectus hen who died anyway and the bill was $1600. That's just for four birds. All of her birds, including her two pets, are vetted yearly. All babies are vetted twice before they even go to their home. All babies are polyoma vaccinated. She also creates a folder for every baby she produces with baby pictures as they have grown, all vet records, certificates, etc. She also go above and beyond anyone I've ever known to save babies that have been born with issues.

Just like there are bad rescues out there that will charge you an arm and a leg for a bird they got for free and never put a dime into it, there are bad breeders out there. We need to be informed and should be able to steer people toward the good breeders as well as the good rescues and rescues and breeders need to work with each other, not against each other for this to happen.

Now, when you adopt a bird from rescue, what costs has the rescue incurred? Keep in mind that many of the birds they have have come from abuse/neglect situations, some have come to them with significant health issues, and almost all of them have been housed and cared for by the rescue for much longer than a breeder has a baby or young bird.

Speaking from first hand experience, most birds that came into the rescue that I was involved with for two years were just birds needing new homes. 98% of them had nothing but normal behavioral issues that most of us bird lovers just learn to deal with or correct. Birds are generally given up when the people who bought them realize they can't care for them...they're too messy, they chew too much, like the furniture, they're too loud. That's the reality of most relinquished birds, not that they have unbelievable vet bills. And I would love to know how many rescues actually vet every single bird. I'm not saying that some aren't good and do vet a lot of birds but even the good rescues don't vet every single bird, especially the smaller ones who are more likely to have serious issues that could be spread to the rest of a flock such as Polyoma, PBFD, etc. Many rescues simply do not vet at all and honestly, with the serious diseases they could have, this is absolutely unacceptable.

Rescue is a big business and don't think for one minute that there aren't lots of people taking advantage of how easy it is to get a 501(c)3 and I can tell you right up front, they are hardly ever monitored by government. This is all part of my experience with trying to close down one single rescue that should not be open and yet they continue. If you think my case was one out of the norm, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[jmfleish]

I think this thread does a HUGE diservice to rescues. MOST rescue's do an amazing job with what little support they get and what tools they have at thier disposal. Let me tell you rescources are minimal, at best.

My husband and I have never asked, nor accepted donations and we will not until our 501(c) 3 comes through in the fall.

Our highest adoption fee is 200 and we never recoup even half of what we've spent on the birds that come through. Hell the vet exam itself costs that much, not to mention food and toys and time, and nearly all of the birds are mess in one way or another.

As far as I'm concerned if someone can't take the time to fill out a 3-4 page adoption application, ,come to spend time getting to know the birds, and jump through a couple of hoops, they can go to .... wherever the heck else they want to.

We don't adopt to save ourselves hassels, and you don't adopt to get a cheap animal. You adopt to perform a service, a charitable action, for the benifit of the animal and to be a part in helping to solve a problem in society. Period.

You may think it's a disservice to rescues but considering how many there are and how easy it is to open one, even those with the best of intentions end up going down a road they shouldn't be going down and things end up badly.

I know this isn't going to be a popular thought but I find very few rescues that I even trust any more because I've seen too many fall right down the same steps the one I was involved with. It ends up being a cash cow in the end.

There are plenty of people out there who help birds simply for the thought of helping birds. They don't call themselves rescues, they just do it. Many of them are breeders. I think those are the people who deserve the credit...

 

[mariec]

Marie, you do take donations. I am not saying you shouldnt, but you can't say you don't when it's right on your site How To Help and Sponsor a bird

Well I suppose that is still there on my site and if you read carefully everyone on that "sponsor a bird" has a R.I.P and it even says no sponsorship aavailable at this time, but noone has ever used it, and if they had there would be a "sponsored by" next to it. We don't have a 501 (c)(3) but we are a licensed animal shelter and a licsenced non- profit so some food companies donate food, and veterinarians donate medical care and we accept food, toys, etc for donation. I was actually referring to asking here on the board, or overt fundraising efforts....

We also have a "toys for fids" section where we donate toys to birds in need in low- income homes, and "caring cages", where we donate appropiate cage's to birds in need, as an effort to see birds better cared for in their own homes. So we except toys and cages too.

I also take part in adoptathons, and I always have a homemade bird toy or two for sale at those events to support us, but i'm not sure that would be considered a donation really since it is more an exchange of goods.

I should have been more clear, I was referring to cash donations. I thought about taking them, but you won't find a single person who we have accepted one from, and you are more than free to try!


I would take one, if anyone ever offered...I'm certainly not above it and their have been time's I could of really used one.

I have open hours for anyone to come to my home, and I have absolutly nothing to be ashamed of.

Although, if your intent on it, you can •••• us to hell for taking cage and toy donations to give to other people who really need them, or food, etc.

Also I have veterinarian who pays for my cable and phone and made the down payment for my car so I could afford the payment. All of my time is dedicated to working for non-profits as a pro bono grant writer, so I wouldn't be able to do what I do otherwise so there is another negative for ya, I'm wasting a master's degree that the government paid for....I'm a total monster.

 

[mariec]

I know this isn't going to be a popular thought but I find very few rescues that I even trust any more because I've seen too many fall right down the same steps the one I was involved with. It ends up being a cash cow in the end.
{QUOTE]

Just a note to help, any 501c3 or licenesed non-profit is required to file a quarterly financial report to the IRS, and this has to also be made available for anyone who requests a copy.

You can really find great rescue's and other non-profits to support by doing your research.

 

[Theresa]

Well I suppose that is still there on my site and if you read carefully everyone on that "sponsor a bird" has a R.I.P and it even says no sponsorship aavailable at this time, but noone has ever used it, and if they had there would be a "sponsored by" next to it. We don't have a 501 (c)(3) but we are a licensed animal shelter and a licsenced non- profit so some food companies donate food, and veterinarians donate medical care and we accept food, toys, etc for donation. I was actually referring to asking here on the board, or overt fundraising efforts....



I should have been more clear, I was referring to cash donations. I thought about taking them, but you won't find a single person who we have accepted one from, and you are more than free to try!


I would take one, if anyone ever offered...I'm certainly not above it and their have been time's I could of really used one.

I have open hours for anyone to come to my home, and I have absolutly nothing to be ashamed of.

Thanks for the clarification After some of the things I have read and seen, I always double check info given

 

[Theresa]

Also I have veterinarian who pays for my cable and phone and made the down payment for my car so I could afford the payment. All of my time is dedicated to working for non-profits as a pro bono grant writer, so I wouldn't be able to do what I do otherwise so there is another negative for ya, I'm wasting a master's degree that the government paid for....I'm a total monster.

Where exactly do I imply you're a monster? I simply asked a question about what I saw