Ugh ... I could not believe my eyes...

[Jan]

Oh my goodness, I go to this bird store today(won't mention a name) to pick up some 50# bags of seed... so in this one room as I walk by on my way to the bathroom and all these people standing out in the hallway and I peek over as I go by, I could easily tell they were doing a sugical sexing thing... so I go to the bathroom... wee.. wee.... wash hands and come back out and then I stop in front of the glass briefly to see... either a GreenWing or Scarlet Macaw was on its back and under while they were doing the sugical thing but that was not the distrubing part of it... what was - in this room was also the store's bird cages full of their own birds which there are umteen number of cages in this room which are small cages with small birds in them.

Now, to me how clean of an enviroment is that for the birds they are putting at risk while under the process of what ever they are doing. I shuttered and thought that is not good practice. I know they were set up for a clinic like deal and I think it was the vet "McDonald" or who ever, he is from the San Francisco area from what I was told... although it shows on his website he is actually from Illinois. I find it strange that they could not at least have been set up in a room where there were no other birds.

 

[Good Charlotte]

Well my goodness Jan! That is the same doctor who was going to see Nanna for free! I am so glad I did not do it. The deal is 6 hours no food or water and I thought it was a bit extreme. When he came to the shop here it was going to be a deal in the store not a separate room, just like you describe. I agree, not a good set up at all. Phooey, we took Nanna elsewhere and payed for the visit.

 

[Anne & Gang]

that is mighty weird...and unsafe!!!

 

[April]

Thats very odd and not at all safe.

 

[Greycloud]

Ugh! McDonald! Boy have I heard stories! Truly, what is the purpose of surgical sexing a pet bird. I can see a breeder but not a pet. To do this procedure in a room where they are introducing an instrument into a bird, while other birds, feces and clutter is present is unacceptable. McDonald travels all over and holds clinics basically to sex your bird. So unnecessary!

 

[drop]

OMG, I can't believe that! That is some scary stuff, I have never heard of someone doing such a thing. Why would a vet even hold such a thing at a store? I would never bring my birds into a store, point finale, let alone to have them put under and sexed, let alone at one of these clinic type things where I am guessing there is also exposure to many people's pets and not only the store birds. And then to actually do the procedure in a completely unsanitary place!! WTH?!? Stuff like this make me cringe. I hope all the birds in question get real lucky and didn't pick anything up over there

 

[atvchick95]

Dr. Scott E. McDonald IS from Il. and he Has a VERY good practice and he sterilizes Everything Before use and after use, and he sterilizes his table and instruments after each bird

he just did the Surgical sexing on both my IRNS, and I've taken a Parakeet to him for a beak trim

If he had a practice in my state or closer to my town I'd go to him with every single one of my birds

He sets up his clinic where the store puts him, But he also does them in some peoples homes.

my birds are perfectly fine, he's very good at what he does, and knows his stuff.

I tell every one who needs to see a Avian vet when he's in town to go see him.


Before downgrading him Perhaps Have a conversation with him and see how he does his practice

http://scottemcdonald.com/biblio.html

 

[Bokkapooh]

It is not very clean of him, or very sanitary to have other living birds, awake moving birds, in the same room as another bird who is being operated on or being seen. Disease can pass to other birds and to your bird, and not only that, how scary it is for those other birds to see what that Dr. is doing!

 

[drop]

Even if he does sterilize, it can't be safe if the procedure itself is being held in a room full of birds. There is no way that this is sanitary, no matter how much one may "try" to sterilize. It's hard for me to believe that anyone would allow their bird to go through such a procedure in such a place.

Kelli, how was your procedure done? I am just curious, as I never heard of a vet going around and offering their services. Does he only do sexing or check-ups and things like that as well?

 

[itzmered]

To me this would be like me going to Walmart and having a Dr do an exam on me in the dressing room. No thanks

 

[Willow]

I don't see the point of surgical sexing when DNA is available?

 

[Greycloud]

Kelli, I said I had heard stories. True, I have never met or contacted him in anyway. I truly believe there is no benefit to anesthetizing and doing an invasive procedure to determine sex unless you are a breeder. The dangers are unnecessary. If he has such a strong following it would benefit him to invest in a mobile bus clinic where sterile procedures could be followed. He spends many hours on the road.
The basis of this post is not about him. It is about performing a sterile procedure in a room with many biological dangers to the bird in question.

 

[Yoshi]

I don't see the point of surgical sexing when DNA is available?

DNA testing can be inaccurate. There have been several examples on this board of a bird that had been DNA tested one thing, would test out as something else when retested at a later date.

However - I agree with others. If they are pets - why go through the risk?

 

[atvchick95]

I don't see the point of surgical sexing when DNA is available?

DNA is not 100% DNA can not tell you if your birds insides are okay or not

Surgical sexing is 100% , and CAN tell you if the insides are okay or not

DNA was wrong on MY Indian Ringneck she was DNA'D male she is Surgically sexed Female

and For me birds who can not be visually sexed, I only want them Surgically sexed, I will not believe a DNA test ever

Not just because My own birds' DNA test was wrong but I've read Many others that was too

DNA is also more expensive

I got both of my IRNS Surgically sexed for $20 - 10 bucks each

yes they were put under, No it did not hurt them, they were up and perching and being their normal self within minutes. getting both birds done and them waking up and being their self was all completed in less than 5 minutes

and i found out the results instantly

it's the only way I'll go even if I'm not planning on breeding the bird, if i want to know its sex it will be surgically sexed

my Blue Quakers were also Surgically sexed by Dr. Scott McDonald and shipped to me from S. Carolina the very next day

It's not as bad as people make it out to be

he puts a very small cut on their side and uses a scope 1 or 2 stitches to close it up. and off the bird(s) go

 

[Bokkapooh]

To me this would be like me going to Walmart and having a Dr do an exam on me in the dressing room. No thanks

I like how you put it

 

[rikkitikki]

I agree that the environment is not correct for this kind of thing, but there is one thing that hasn't been considered yet. In a vet practice, there are certain procedures that are considered "non-sterile" procedures. In other words, procedures that should be clean, but due to the nature of the procedure, cannot be labeled sterile and therefore a sterile environment wouldn't be called for (sterile vs clean in this aspect). If the bird was in a "clean" environment, it would be safe, and in this case, just bringing the bird into the room with the other birds puts it at risk and that seems to be the cause for argument here. Sooo, that being said, I don't know if it's actually doing the procedure where others can see that's the issue, but doing it in the room with other birds with an unknown history. However, bringing your bird into an avian vet means you're bringing your bird into a clinic that shares airspace with hundreds of birds that walk through that door, maybe some sharing airspace in the waiting room, in the exam room next door to the one you're in, perhaps a sick bird in the back that you can't see. That in itself seems like it meets the criteria for being risky too.
--mind you, take all of that with a grain of salt, I can only base this on what I'm interpreting through what I have read, I don't actually have a bird yet!!!
*waiting to be schooled* ...

 

[dorn27]

I would never surgically sex a bird period. Why do that if you can just pluck 5-6 feathers, 1 blood feather or use a DROP of blood?

If anything, send out two different labs if you're worried about human errror.

I also feel the $30 or so is money well spent for my animal not to have to be cut open at all. Especially considering a bird can bleed to death in moments. Just doesn't seem like a risk I'd take over $10.

 

[Tielygirl]

gosh that leaves me feeling just gross. How sad that he cannot even get a room by itself. I almost wonder what would happen if he had to have an operation done and the Doctor he had decided to do it in a store? Human doctors wont operate in anything less than steral.... so why should our pets be subjected to any less?

* DNA sexing is only inaccurate if the sample is degraded when it arrives at the lab. Feather samples can be inaccurate also because often there is not enough tissue to determine sex. The most accurate DNA testing is when a vial of blood is taken. I speak from experience having done similar tests in school for an upper level biology lab.

 

[Annamacaw]

 

[rikkitikki]

I *think* this would not be considered an operation, but more so a procedure. I might compare this to getting your wisdom teeth out, though not even as invasive as that. When I got mine out, I was put under and it was considered a surgery of sorts, but the room was not a sterile room, though there weren't extra people milling about.
When I was a kid, my friend had to have stitches on her foot after she cut it on glass, I was allowed to sit and watch along with her mom and her mom's boyfriend, that might go along the same lines, not sterile, but clean.
Just trying to keep that aspect under perspective and try not to get this blown out of proportion in the way it could.
I bet many of us would agree that the environment still was not correct for the procedure, but I don't think it can be compared to a full on surgery.