Trying to prevent a Bird Store Protest

[srtiels]

It sounds like they have changed and are now dealing strictly wholesale to shops. My comment was in regards to how somone can make an assumption from what they have read.

Like with any business, especially in Miami there are bargan hunters more than willing to buy from the nest or unweaned, many times by someone with no expereince or little experience. Or they could have experience with one species, yet have difficulties the first time feeding another species of bird....thus sometimes being experienced may not be of value if the species is totally different than what they have worked with. Most breeders now no longer will sell unweaned to the public because it can have an unhappy ending for the bird. And those that do are either overwelmed with babies, or too lazy to handfeed themselves.

 

[Greycloud]

Jungle Enterprises is who supplies Petsmart and Petco, I believe. I have seen some horrible videos of baby parrots being thrown after handfeeding and babies dying.
I'm sorry but there is no way Stretch developed the amount of bacteria in just a few hours over night. Just doesn't happen at that rate.
He states he rarely sells unweaned babies. I know of 3 right off the bat and that is 3 too many!

 

[Gilraen]

I've been staying out of this one. Just wanted to point out that Rydia came from Petco and she is from Coleman's Aviaries. It's on the complete opposite side of the state from Jungle Enterprises.

 

[itzmered]

Just wondering if you had a chance to visit the store yet? Curious to hear what you thought of the place

 

[Kathie]

If I can make a suggestion... tell the owner to ignore the protestors. They want attention. If they get no attention, they will eventually go away. I know this from experience at a store where I used to work.

 

[carkam]

I got my GCC from Petco also, almost 2 years ago. I know that the Petco in Shoreline is getting their birds from a new breeder and they are not clipped, eating pellets and fresh foods and very friendly!! These birds though are selling faster because of their friendliness. My guy was not handled much and was a nipper, and picky eater. Not sure what breeder he came from.

 

[Cliffy4ever]

I got Elly, my Dusky Conure from Petco too. She's an angel bird. She danced, tripped, and danced some more, following my hand all over, with a spring in her step. My b/f was with me, my eyes got wide. "I. want. that. bird." He shook his head and knew there was no stopping me.
I just liked to go to Petco to wave at the animals. Didn't intend on getting one. It was love at first site.
I still don't agree with how easy they turn over animals or what I've heard about where the birds come from...

I said it before, she was an impulse buy and lead me to be a serious-business bird-lover, but now I'm all for adoption of the feathered guys after Clifford. I saw what an amazing job the rescue did in making sure I was the right person to take in Cliffy, then later Georgie. If only all birds were turned over like that... With thoroughness.

I saw some propaganda video about a cockatoo chick left to die at an assumed PetSmart facility... I want to fight this. This is where I want to put a lot of effort in getting the word out.

There was a the pionus and quaker at Petco for 2 or so years... They just recently disappeared after being on sale for awhile. One day the Pionus, later the Quaker. I pray they found a good home, but I had trouble going there due to the lack of cuddles and I would walk around with tears in my eyes. I would stand there for 20 minutes to entertain them as they chased my hands before getting crickets for my little toads. Well, the pionus was rather shy about it, but he came down to say hi. The Quaker was hyper active. I even have pictures of them in my phone to remember to send them good thoughts... @_@ Maybe they worked? I asked about them, but the worker at the time didn't know
u_u alas, they have new birds there now... More to make me cry...

Anyhoo. Yesterday I spent 3 hours cleaning cages at the Wildlife Center. I can't begin to tell you what a work out that was. I'm gonna be skinny if I keep this up!
I had the wonderful company of a baby pig scurrying around the cage area while his area was being cleaned. The M-o-l-u-c-c-a-n (heheheh) 'too was outside the window, getting a tan and peeping in on me. I'd talk to him as I cleaned the cages. He'd stop to chatter and look at me. He was mostly well behaved, but at one point his feathers went full POOF as he shouted and it was hilarious..! They're doing a second test on him to make sure he has beak & feather. As of now, I would never assume he'd have that by the looks of him.
There was a Scarlet and a B&G Macaws that just came in together. The families lost their house. =/ I talked to the B&G and he BLUSHED! I'd leave, come back, talk, then more blush! His cheeks would get pink...! He was a nipper if you got too close, but he'd come over to talk and make kissy noises. I still think he just needs to find a nice family to get spoiled by. He'll get attached to someone and be pudding. That's just my intuition..! They also work on socializing and clicker training there. There's always someone passing by to talk.

I also learned how to better sanitize cages.

I was beat... friends saved the day with pizza. Then we went to a packed wildlife handling class and my group sat on the floor.
It's wonderful to know that there's so many people willing to help and learn. That gave me hope for this.

I was out of commission the rest of the night because I ended up with a fever and my sciatica started up. It didn't start when I was working. Just when I relaxed. Good timing I guess?

I still feel ill. This morning I felt like I got hit by a bus.
Even so, today was spent in retrieving my multi-tier cage. Georgie came along for the ride and didn't make a peep at starbucks. It was so hot, my helper-rescue-friend and I needed it. I've been setting it up. I'm very light headed right now. I'm going to read things over tomorrow morning because I'm having trouble functioning and I caught up on things Friday. I have an ice pack for my head calling to me.... and making the pillow soaked. =p

The most recent news on this project: I told the admissions office of what's going on. I told the adoptions co-ordinator that we need to talk soon over this soon. She asked me for my email and I hope to hear from her soon. So that's also in the works now.

I'm going to call Dr. Grant tomorrow after I read what I'm missing.
I'll likely pester Miss Adoptions while I'm in the zone.

So awareness is done, now it's time to mooch info.

I have been getting VERY helpful emails from bird-folks and hopeful responses from Nathan. Working on the rescue's name is one thing. I was thinking "For The Birds Rescue". Opinions? I'm going to turn that over to him soon with more questions.
I want to give an update as some more agreements.

The special baby budgies are now in good homes to be watched out for. 1 was relatively normal and went to one home, and the other 2 (1 with wing problem, the other a leg problem) now have a home too with a special cage that, last time I checked, he was going to provide.
His connections made it possible... I wish for the best. I want to hear updates on them. I love special birds.

I want to make it a goal to convince him from staying away giving homes to unweened babies. I hope my vet will help me with this. They are so fragile the more I learn about them. They shouldn't be going to anyone... other than possibly a professional..? u_u

There's so so so so so much to learn. Again, birds are so complex in every aspect you can imagine. I'm trying my best while not feeling the best...!
I didn't get a chance to make the visit. I'm going to try for tomorrow after work. Still within the 1 week. I don't want to let it go further than 1 week.

I got emailed a flyer from another group about the protest. It dawned on me that people may show up. I figured to linger on the 7th anyway. Maybe they can express to me their concerns and maybe they can also aid in fixing things if they're willing. Maybe they can shine some light on things. Trying to be optimistic.

I do love protests. I do think they are effective. I just want to make sure there's no other option first. He's still co-operating and I've been receiving emails every day.

 

[Cliffy4ever]

I hope I'm wrong, but I really do have to agree with itzmered on this one. I base this on my conversation with Bill over Ally's bird. We had a nice long chat and I felt some of my concerns were side stepped. He does have that smooth talking down pat. One of the things we talked about was his reputatation, which he told me was impeckable. But it's not so impeckable in central florida and I told him that. Another side step. Of course he's going to take in unwanted birds, they are income. There are many caring avian rescues all over Florida who recieve birds from all over Florida. He is not unique. After talking to him on the phone, and reading the emails that he has sent to Ally, he is not anyone that I would want to do business with nor would I refer him to anyone.

Would it be too forward of me to request those emails?
He's going to make the rescue separate. He said that before I did. I'm hoping with his connections he'll be able to place homes to people that he knows will take care of them. He also wants to focus on keeping birds in their families' homes. That's a good thing to want to do so there isn't a need to abandon birds.
He may be a smooth talker, there may be many negative things that people have endured I hear more and more every day, but there's a last stitch effort going on. I hope it's positive.
He's listening and communicating with me. I just got the details as how he tends to the babies. The email is about a page or 2 long.
I figure if he's taking time to go through all that, he's investing something too. I just got pictures of the special budgies..! They're young and feathered. I want them..!

Talked to someone awesome while I was writing this for 1hr this morning while at work. She called me back right away. Can't name names to be safe. All I can say is she has A LOT of experience with this place, interested in working on laws to help birds, and I'll be getting a lot of good advice from her.
Now I spent 2.5 hours updating everywhere and the like, I'll just offer the possible name for the needy bird rescue is "Helping Hands Bird Rescue"
He may have me make the site up. o_o

 

[Riley's mom]

Would it be too forward of me to request those emails?
He's going to make the rescue separate. He said that before I did. I'm hoping with his connections he'll be able to place homes to people that he knows will take care of them. He also wants to focus on keeping birds in their families' homes. That's a good thing to want to do so there isn't a need to abandon birds.
He may be a smooth talker, there may be many negative things that people have endured I hear more and more every day, but there's a last stitch effort going on. I hope it's positive.
He's listening and communicating with me. I just got the details as how he tends to the babies. The email is about a page or 2 long.
I figure if he's taking time to go through all that, he's investing something too. I just got pictures of the special budgies..! They're young and feathered. I want them..!

Talked to someone awesome while I was writing this for 1hr this morning while at work. She called me back right away. Can't name names to be safe. All I can say is she has A LOT of experience with this place, interested in working on laws to help birds, and I'll be getting a lot of good advice from her.
Now I spent 2.5 hours updating everywhere and the like, I'll just offer the possible name for the needy bird rescue is "Helping Hands Bird Rescue"
He may have me make the site up. o_o

I'm glad you feel like this may be making a difference with this guy, and I hope you are, but I'm not that confident so I'm sorry I will not be forwarding the emails at this time. Good luck.

 

[Marlene]

Did you make it to Bill's Birds today?

 

[srtiels]

Did you make it to Bill's Birds today?

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I think Jen got there...and hopefully she will post soon, but between work and other issues she is divided in so many directions.

Today I had to get feed for the geese. Our SS check did not stretch the whole month and the poor geese and chickens have been eating cockatiel seed. I got the goose food and they are looking at it like 'what is this???' and begging at the door.

The feed store is around the corner from Bills Birds. I ususally get my Zupreem pellets for the mousebirds from another bird store and decided to go to Bills since he was closer. Today was the first time I have been in the store in almost 15 years. I was there about 15 minutes talking, and even discussed Jen, which they enjoy talking with her and her visits. I did not want to be snoopy, but the store, birds, etc looked fine. The inside layout was changed from when I was in there years ago. I had an enjoyable talk including some of my past differences with them, and what happened afterwards. I now wished I had discussed it way back when instead of holding onto the anger....but thats another story. He did have some fabulous and impressive suggestions and ideas as far as rescues. His ideas may also be of interest to those doing rescue work. Hopefully Jen will post on that.

 

[Billie Faye]

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I think Jen got there...and hopefully she will post soon, but between work and other issues she is divided in so many directions.

Today I had to get feed for the geese. Our SS check did not stretch the whole month and the poor geese and chickens have been eating cockatiel seed. I got the goose food and they are looking at it like 'what is this???' and begging at the door.

The feed store is around the corner from Bills Birds. I ususally get my Zupreem pellets for the mousebirds from another bird store and decided to go to Bills since he was closer. Today was the first time I have been in the store in almost 15 years. I was there about 15 minutes talking, and even discussed Jen, which they enjoy talking with her and her visits. I did not want to be snoopy, but the store, birds, etc looked fine. The inside layout was changed from when I was in there years ago. I had an enjoyable talk including some of my past differences with them, and what happened afterwards. I now wished I had discussed it way back when instead of holding onto the anger....but thats another story. He did have some fabulous and impressive suggestions and ideas as far as rescues. His ideas may also be of interest to those doing rescue work. Hopefully Jen will post on that.

Great Post! and I'm glad you were able to "discuss" things....I applaud you for going there and checking out things and giving this report.... It is very nice to hear that you are seeing a difference in the store (yes even from YEARS ago and their attitude)
Thank you so much!

 

[srtiels]

I applaud you for going there and checking out things and giving this report....
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Thanks Billie Faye. I was trembling at the thought of entering the store. I have to state that many have mentioned that he is a smooth talker...this is very true. And postings are intelligent and smooth feeling. BUT...in a face to face conversation you can read a persons eyes to see if it matches what is coming out of their mouths. Both Bill and Nathans eyes show a sparkle and shine when they talked abouts birds and the birds needs and issues and, Jens interest in working with them. And were guarded when I mentioned some past things, and unpleasant matters....until they realized I was not going to be a B****, and then they relaxed and what was discussed was sincere sounding and from their eyes.

 

[Billie Faye]

You are no push over for people...and having had a "bad experience" with them, I really do think it is possible to read people's eyes to see where they are coming from, YOU are not going to be "lip" serivce for them....Giving POSITIVE engery/thoughts to a negative situation can/does over ride negative and things can change...not saying it will be very quick but little steps with each on feeling their way....That is OK...it is going forward.....

 

[Riley's mom]

Susanne - I'm glad you had a really good conversation with them and you feel the store is up to standards. I wouldn't know about how the store looked since I was never down there, so that is not something I can look down on him for. But, I have read his emails and talked to him on the phone, and I'm just not swayed yet. But that is my problem, not his or anyone else's.

 

[srtiels]

Billie Faye...I'm 59 and been around the block a few times, and had experience with alot of breeders and shops and over time learned how to separate the BS'ers from how they act and talk to whom is sincere. Bill and Nathan can talk the talk because they are in the retail trade, but if a person is alert they can separate the BS from the real motives. Rather than walk around the store I stayed at the front counter and looked. There was a handfeeding baby in a clear plastic tub, and I pointed out how the uninformed would consider this cruelty, etc. And the group of budgies in a cage. Being around different species of birds it might look like over-crowding BUT some species are very social and flock close together and will be shoulder to shoulder when strangers are around, or a new environment. I have 18 tiels in a 9' long flight. If the FPL man or a stranger (or even the cat) go near their flight all of them will bunch together. My mousebirds will bunch together, and on top of each other even when they are in a very large cage when I put them outside in the flights during the summer/fall. But to the uniformed this is seen as overcrowding. Off-the-record I have to admit I do need larger cages for the mousers. I'm just bringing up these points/examples, because of different peoples perspectives of things.

I had stuck my digital camera in my pocketbook thinking I would take pix's, then thought better of it. The reason why is because I remember several weeks ago some pix's that were 'supposedly' taken by a visitor to Bills Birds. Those pix's dissappeared from the internet. But I remember looking at them, and thinking not all of them were from his shop.

And, NO I will not give lip service because it does not help anyone. I do beleive in being fair and trying to not be judgemental...though I have to admit I was just as judgmental and vocal when I heard what happened to Ally.

 

[srtiels]

But, I have read his emails and talked to him on the phone, and I'm just not swayed yet. But that is my problem, not his or anyone else's.
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Cindy...I can fully understand your feelings, especially the energy and heart felt desires expended to help ALLY thru the problems with Stretch. And like you, we have all heard so many rumors, and the more they are told the worse they are. I'm just as quilty of that over the years.

At the time (early 90's) I had ALOT of anger, and was thrilled whenever I heard things go wrong with Bills. There was one incidence where I felt guilty, and thankfully I asked today. There was a very revengeful breeder that was going to have another stranger try to sell him a group of polyoma lovebird babies. She was going to do this 2 two shops. I warned the one shop, but I did not remember ever warning Bills. Nathan remembered and thanked me for warning them at the time.....I was soooo relieved. Down my way it gets nasty behind the scenes in regards to breeders and stores, and the root of alot of rumors.

 

[Cliffy4ever]

I applaud you for going there and checking out things and giving this report....
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Thanks Billie Faye. I was trembling at the thought of entering the store. I have to state that many have mentioned that he is a smooth talker...this is very true. And postings are intelligent and smooth feeling. BUT...in a face to face conversation you can read a persons eyes to see if it matches what is coming out of their mouths. Both Bill and Nathans eyes show a sparkle and shine when they talked abouts birds and the birds needs and issues and, Jens interest in working with them. And were guarded when I mentioned some past things, and unpleasant matters....until they realized I was not going to be a B****, and then they relaxed and what was discussed was sincere sounding and from their eyes.

I could just attack you with hugs...!
That is very bold of you..! You were able to talk to them about their negative stories too. I couldn't offer too much against them because it would be a retelling and not from personal experience. I think that has a stronger impact when it's personal.
I'm glad they see me as something positive instead of as a pest.
I did show up on Monday. I think they were a bit surprised, so that's good, right?
I told them, I wasn't kidding. I'm gonna keep on this. We talked for a good while too.

I understand there's a small spotlight on him, he's doing good with it. I do think he's trying. Let's just keep that spotlight on him.

He walks with me when I walk around. His one friend was behind him doing a double inspection with the cart. lol. I also think he's worried I'm taking pictures or something. I wouldn't do that. It says no pictures, and I'll be respectful of it. Plus, I could always draw things if it really came down to it. lol.

I was able to skritch a well mannered Macaw during the process, and an Amazon that would say, "You're a pretty bird" and climb all over. He liked to get in my face and talk. After pacing around and staring at me. He gave my nose a nip! That's ok. It wasn't that bad, but it was go-in-your-cage-time after that.
He told me that was from a guy who weened him, but couldn't take care of him anymore. =/ At least he has a place that gives him food and water..!
I try to emphasize the need for attention. I'm not there all day, but the way the birds act, they aren't scared, they aren't really crazy.
They all have toys in their cages!

Some of the quakers I suspect may be wild... Not sure. I can understand taking them instead of FPL gassing them. The birds adults would run, but the chicks could be hurt...
I need to ponder on that more.

I don't know if I mentioned, but I have some help from a very awesome person that I have to keep nameless but has experience in this matter.

Expecting a call today at my work phone, because I left my cell at home..!
I'm a dufus.

I visited the vets office and they said it's ok if I volunteer after work! I'm going to try Tuesdays and/or Thursdays because they're opened past 5 on those days.

I just started going to the gym with the head of the protest group so we get to talk about things we can do.

If anything, the puppy palace guy probably feels really rowdy because we are reasoning with Nathan instead of protesting ATM.
Maybe he'll change his ways and look more into rescues. No Paw Left Behind just had some amazing rotty puppies. Why couldn't he extend a hand to that area? Probably wouldn't make as much, but it would do justice to animals.

Here's something I'd like to see on cages. It's a quicky graphic I made up. I told him, I'm here to help. If he needs something, I can help.
I'd like to make more for older parrots, younger parrots, where they came from hatchdate... things like that. In some way the birds can't eat it, of course.

I've been spending my whole mornings with back and forth emails and phone calls.

I think about you guys at AA every day. It's tough to keep up...! I'm trying and working really hard..! It's my b-day today, but I think I'll just keep this up instead of doing any major partying. Probably go to the gym again today and talk more about this.

The gym is right near the vets...!

Anyhoo. Time to play catch up at work. Thanks for all who's involved...!

Oh and there is something I'm suspicious of, and I'm getting more info from someone who may know more about it. So I'll let you know what this is asap. I just don't want to say something and not be 100% on it.

 

[Billie Faye]

Love your Bird Boarding sign!!!!!!
Thanks for the update! and I'm glad you showed up on Monday and he was surprised....and you didn't find anything "out of sorts"....
Oh, by the way HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

 

[srtiels]

Happy Birthday Jen

Some of the quakers I suspect may be wild... Not sure. I can understand taking them instead of FPL gassing them. The birds adults would run, but the chicks could be hurt...
I need to ponder on that more.
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Most likely they were wild caughts. I know a cockatiel breeder that in the past year that has trapped a couple dozen that land on his cages and scare the nesting tiels. Many breeders that have drop thru cages....meaning suspended above the ground, and seed and waste drop to the ground...will have alot of wild birds flying in for a free diner. Quakers can be a real nuisence, and you either have to keep running outside to chase them off, or some have a live trap setup and trap them and put them in a flight....or sell them. Flocks of wild Quakers can be found all over, and they colony breed and reproduce quickly in the wild, and become problematic to golf courses, and other places that have high trees or areas where they can build their large nests. Since they are not a protected species, I suspect there is alot of poison baiting being done to get rid of them.

Rest up and have a nice day.