Training and Bonding advice

[stevepoulter]

Hi all,
I am a first time poster and a new cockatiel owner.
Way way back I had a cockatiel when I was 5 years old which my dad sold when I was 10 as we were moving house. I loved that bird and now 30 years later I have decided to get another cockatiel for my two sons to enjoy, and me too of course.
Anyway, I ended up getting two cockatiels and my son's have named them Bipsey and Harry.
We have had them two months and I was told they are 7 months old (when picked up, 9 months now). After doing some research I feel one is 9 months old but the other seems older, maybe even tho years old. But I'm no expert.
The birds were aviary birds with no real human contact apart from to fill up their food bowls and water dishes. So when I got them they were completely scared of any human contact and we're constantly looking for hands.
Whenever a hand came near their cage they would be flapping all over their cage.
2 months later they are now taking seeds from our finger tips and Harry (the seemingly younger bird) has stepped onto my finger. Bipsey also stepped up twice but he absolutely hates it.
I am looking for tips/reassurance that I am going in the right direction.
The reason for my post is to ask why, when Harry steps up he only stays on my finger for a few seconds and then flies back to his perch. If I hold him on my finger and constantly feed him sunflower seeds he will stay, but as soon the seeds are finishes he will go back to his perch. He initially has a tight posture and hair up but this settles after a few seed bribes. But still goes back to his perch.
Bipsey has stepped up twice but even with sunflower seed bribes he will immediately fly back to his perch, won't take the seed. He perches with a tight posture and hair up.
I am concerned that I am forcing them onto my finger and they don't really want to be there. The reason I feel this is because to get Harry onto my finger it takes several attempts of him flying off his perch doing a few laps of the living room and returning back to the perch. After about 5 times of doing this he decides "OK, your not going to stop" and he steps up. Bipsey is the same but he will probably takes 10 laps of the living room.
This process probably tires them out to the point they are too tired to fly so eventually step up.
After a few weeks of doing this they are still unsure of hands, I can put my hand on their perch and they will just scoot to the other end of the perch. I can put seeds on the finger and palms of my hand and rest my hand on the perch, Harry will take the seeds laying on my fingers but not the palms, Bipsey won't even attempt to go near my hand.
How would I go about training them to want to perch on my finger, rather than being forced. They obviously feel safe on the perch but I would like them to feel safe on hands.
Any advice would be appreciated
May thanks

 

[blewin]

Most tiels are very food motivated, but I would stay away from sunflower seeds and stick with millet. It seems to me that your routine is beginning to work. It will just take time.

 

[Lodah]

Its TIME and at their pace... be patient! When it does happen... its magic!

 

[stevepoulter]

Most tiels are very food motivated, but I would stay away from sunflower seeds and stick with millet. It seems to me that your routine is beginning to work. It will just take time.

Thanks for the reply

Just out of curiosity, why millet and not sunflower seeds?

 

[Lodah]

Too much fat in sunflower seeds!

 

[Shinobi]

Use clicker training and training treats

 

[stevepoulter]

Too much fat in sunflower seeds!

Fair enough, I will swap to millet. They are on a Pellet diet for their main food source. I just used the sunflower seeds for training. I have millet too so I'll swap. Lasts longer too and they need to stay near my hand when eating millet so probably better in the long run.

Thanks

 

[stevepoulter]

Would you recommend training the birds separate. Currently I train them in turn on their perch. e.g. Harry will do two step ups, then Bipsey etc etc

 

[BirdManDan]

Steve, Harry & Bipsey!

THE .
I HOPE YOU ENJOY THE AVENUE!! WE'RE A BUNCH OF ANIMALS HERE!! HOPE YOU FIT RIGHT IN!!
There is a great deal of information available online that can help you out.

 

[Shinobi]

We use sunflower seeds to train Henry our Eclectus parrot. Sunflower seeds should only be given in very small amounts. We use sunflower seeds as a training treat only.

Henry prefers sunflower seeds over millet.

 

[Tara81]

Food is the easiest way to their hearts. Some of them really arent cuddly. My tiel has been tame since I got her, she don't like cuddles all the time, she dont like being on my shoulder all the time. But she DOES like me and my company. Pellets are good but nothing will beat fresh vegetables and sprouts . I suggest giving a more varied diet, and save the seeds and millet for training =) Let them come out of their cage on their own and come to you for their treats. They are naturally curious , and once they overcome their fear they will be more friendly ! It will just take time and patience . When they are eating from your hand , consider that a win ! Some aviary birds wont even do that so soon. Let them eat from your hand as often as possible, 2-3 times a day , whenever they want , as long as they still eat their healthy food =D

Make opportunites for them to get to know you. maybe bring the cage closer to where you watch tv, where you read, where you look at your phone or computer. Always be slow and gentle around them and they will learn in time. Try to not make eye contact when feeding them until they are more tame =) (it helps them calm down as they feel constantly staring is a predator thing )

 

[BirdManDan]

Every bird is different so find out what their favorite treat is by setting out in a circle several different treats at the location of the hours like the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 then place the bird in the center and watch to see what the top 2 or 3 treats he eats are. Use those 2 or 3 for training treats.

 

[Shinobi]

I wrote this years ago.

No putting hands inside the cage and chasing the bird around the cage or room. (forcing the bird) Instead Conducted lots of trust building and bonding sessions (training). I have had great success with the following method to bond and build trust. When you have built enough trust, you can train your bird to step up and down from within the cage. (good for emergencies)

This how I bonded and built trust with an aviary bred bird and have used it on other birds.

I obtained an aviary bred IRN a quite few years ago who we named Bluey. When people approached Bluey, he would thrash around the cage in fear. So, I needed some tools to address this problem. 1 was a clicker, 2 was training treats, 3 was T-perch.

Clickers are the best for training. It is scientifically proven that in order for the animal to connect their behavior with the reward, the trainer must deliver the reward within 0.8 of a second. that is impossibly fast in most cases. Then as soon as you move to give the reward to the animal, your animal will most likely refocus on you, which will delay or even completely jeopardize the training, because now the animal is being rewarded for focusing on you and not for the original behavior that you were intending to reward.

But….

It is the clicker (or marker) that allows us to “mark” a specific behavior with the animal, and for our animal to take a “snapshot” of what they is doing in that moment. Once the sound of the clicker is emitted, the animal is allowed to break the position and access the reward (or the reward is delivered to him while still performing) It is a straight-forward message to the animal of what he is getting rewarded for.

The clicker is the bridge between you and your bird and you use that bridge to highlight the bird’s desired behaviour to your bird. Training treats are not the bridge, they are the reward at the end of the bridge and patience is the time taken to go over the bridge.

Clicks won't confuse the bird. Where has words can. Without realising, words can be changed. It doesn't seem much, but it is to a bird. Has an example you might be saying "good boy". Then you say, "that's a good boy" or you’re a good bird.

Second by putting five different foods on a plate and watch which one Bluey ate first, I worked out what Bluey favourite food. I used sunflower seeds, corn kernels, pine nuts, grapes and balls of millet. This would become Bluey's training treat and I removed this food from Bluey diet. Whatever your bird picks, it must not be part of the bird’s diet otherwise it defeats the purpose of being a training treat. Bluey picked sunflower seeds with millet a close second. You don't need to use 10 different food items, that's just giving the bird way too many choices, Keep it simple.

These are the procedures I used to calm and interact with him.

Bluey was in a cage in the lounge room. With the clicker in my hand, I entered the lounge room and went to the furthest point away from the cage. Then I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear. When your bird becomes small and "skinny," and the bird's crop often looks sucked in, and all the feathers lie flat on the body. It usually means the bird is scared.

I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed.
Relaxed feathers and wings, standing on one foot, preening and /or grinding his upper and lower mandible together to produce a scratchy or "zippy" noise. The bird is probably content and relaxed. But the bird might not display all these signs but relaxed feathers and wings, standing on one foot are a sure sign.

When Bluey relaxed, I click the clicker once and took 3 slow steps backwards waited 20 to 30 seconds. Then, again I would slowly approach the cage until Bluey showed signs of fear. But this time I got a bit closer to the cage. Then I would stop and stand there until Bluey relaxed. I repeated this procedure and with each approach, each time I would get a bit closer to the cage until I was standing next to the cage and Bluey was relaxed.

When this was achieved I would leave the room for 20 to 30 minutes. Then I would repeat this procedure for 5 to 7 times that day. By the end of the day you should be able to slowly walk up to the cage and the bird should stay relaxed. This whole process might need to be repeated for 2 to 3 days.

Once I was able to walk up to the cage without Bluey being scared, I then started to train Bluey to come out of the cage.
The first stage is with the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other.

I used a spray of millet first has it was a larger food treat and it allowed Bluey to get use to my hands. Once Bluey became use to my hand I started to reduce the size of the millet until I could use sunflower seeds.

Note: This is important and that is, not to force the bird to do something it doesn't want to do. Let it approach the millet.

I would offer the millet to Bluey through the cage where the perch is attached. If he didn't take a bite of the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove the millet from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds.

Then I would re-offer the millet. When Bluey took a bite, I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey's sight. When Bluey finished eating the millet. I repeated the procedure and did this for 15 minutes then took a 30minute break and repeated these 3 more times.

Note: By removing the Millet from the Bird's sight you encourage the "what have I just missed out on. Was that food? Where did it go? Then when you re-offer the millet. The bird thinks I'm not going to miss out again.

The next stage. With the clicker in one hand and a spray of millet in the other. Open the cage door and offer the millet at the entrance of the cage.

Note: Don't put your hand inside the cage has the bird could see this has invasion of their territory.

If Bluey didn't approach the millet within 15 seconds, I would remove it from his sight for 20 to 30 seconds. Then re-offer the millet. When the Bluey came to the cage entrance and took a bite I click the clicker and withdraw the millet but kept it in Bluey sight. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30minute break and repeated these 3 more times with a 30-minute break between.

Note: I used a spray of millet first has it was a larger training treat and it allowed Bluey to get use to my hand. Once Bluey became use to my hand I started to reduce the size of the millet until I could use sunflower seeds. This was done before training Bluey to leave his cage.

The next stage is to place a T-perch just outside the cage. When Bluey flew to the T-perch and took a sunflower seed I click the clicker. I did this for 15 minutes then took a 30minute break and repeated this daily.

You can use the T-perch to return the Bird to the cage. I found that a T-perch is better than a piece of dowel. The T-perch is good for handling birds which fear hands or birds that bite. The hand is below the bird and far enough away for it to feel safe while the human's hand is below and far enough away not to be bitten.

This is more towards interacting with your bird to build trust/bonding. Once you have established a bond of trust with your bird you can start to train basic tricks. Then advance to more tricks if you desire.

The advice I can give is
1 move slowly around the bird
2 let the bird come to you.
3 Don't force the bird to do anything that it doesn't want to do.
4 make the trust building and bonding sessions (training) fun
5 end all training sessions on a positive.
6 patience.

Remember food is a great motivator.

 

[Shinobi]

This how we taught Henry our Eclectus Parrot to step up and down from both inside and outside the cage. while some people feel that's it's good to allow their birds free-range within their home, I personally like to be able to get Henry in and out of his cage when needed and without causing any stress to Henry. I used a clicker and treating treats to achieve this.

I would put Henry on his T-stand and gave him a sunflower seed and click the clicker. This indicates that training has started.
Then in my right hand I held the clicker and the sunflower seed. The set up was the clicker in the palm with my middle finger on the button and the sunflower seed held between my thumb and index finger.

With my left hand I made a pistol, so my finger was parallel to the T-stand and about 3 cm away. Then I would bring my right hand up behind my left hand and show Henry the sunflower seed and say, "step up". if after 15 to 20 seconds Henry hadn't stepped up onto my left hand I would remove the sunflower seed from his sight. Wait 20 to 30 seconds then reshow the treat. When Henry stepped up onto my left hand I would click the clicker at the same time. then reward him with the sunflower seed.


Then to teach him to step down, with henry still on my left hand I would bring it parallel to the T-stand and about 3 cm away. Then with a sunflower seed in my right again, I would bring my right hand up, So the T-stand is between my left and right hands. show Henry the sunflower seed and say, "step down". if after 15 to 20 seconds Henry hadn't stepped down onto the T-stand I would remove the sunflower seed from his sight. Wait 20 to 30 seconds then reshow the treat. When Henry stepped down from my left hand, onto the T-stand, I would click the clicker at the same time. then reward him with the sunflower seed.

Note; Henry isn't a biter.

 

[Monica]

Agree - you need to stop chasing them. You are giving 100% and coming on too strong. It's a relationship, you kind of do 50/50. Go in halfway, and allow them the choice to come the other half way! Teach them to do the behaviors you want them to do because they want to do them!

Also, train them together! Monkey see, monkey do! If one bird is more confident than the other, then the more confident bird can help "teach" a less confident bird to be more comfortable with you.


Take a look at this thread!

"Self-Tamed" Cockatiels | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


Now, as far as diet goes... they should be eating about 50/50 pellets to seeds. Yes, seeds can have little nutritional value, yes birds fed a seed only diet can have nutritional deficiencies and even liver failure... but a diet high in pellets also has the potential to result in gout or kidney failure. It's a good idea to do 50/50 with lots of fresh foods! There's an argument that cockatiels come from an arid, dry climate so they already don't consume much water, and when you put them on a diet that has very little liquid to it, this has the potential to result in kidney issues.

 

[Shinobi]

I don't agree with training birds together. To train your bird tricks like stepping up and down should be done one on one. However I do believe that interacting like scritching, talking to, hand feeding or watching TV has a group, gives better results in becoming a flock.

Angel, Henry and myself just chilling out watching TV.

 

[finchly]

@Shinobi ohhh beautiful birds!

@stevepoulter Maybe try both ways since you’re getting conflicting advice. You definitely want to help them feel better about hands if at all possible.

 

[Shinobi]

@Shinobi ohhh beautiful birds!

@stevepoulter Maybe try both ways since you’re getting conflicting advice. You definitely want to help them feel better about hands if at all possible.

It's not conflicting advice. I know that some people will say that it's all interaction and yes that's true. but one is a training interaction and the other is a social interaction.

The training interaction is what you use to train your bird to step up and Down, Fly to you (recall), wave, shake hands, turn around or any other trick and you train one on one.

The social interaction is when you and your bird scratch, preen, talk to each other, hand feed or just chill out with your birds as a flock.

 

[Monica]

People say it's more difficult to train more than one bird at a time, which is why it's recommended to separate them, but birds really do learn from each other! People have noticed that if one bird is having a difficult time picking up a new behavior, you switch to the other bird and if that bird learns the behavior with the first one watching, then the first one picks up the behavior easier than before.

Here's a video from Barbara Heidenreich of someone training sun conures to stay in a cage instead of flying onto her and coming out. Barbara mentions in the comments that she even did this behavior with 16 macaws in a giant enclosure.

Yes, you can train birds one on one, or you can work with them together. I've done it years ago with 5 adult, flighted budgies. My goal wasn't to end up with tame/friendly birds, just to see if I could get them comfortable with me through one simple action, and it worked!

And because I did this behavior with budgies, it lead to this behavior with another bird.... (hand raised rehomed - I never intended to go from budgies to the cockatiels!)

And because I was doing that behavior with that bird, another bird wanted the same interaction. (probably handraised but then neglected for several years)

And the different in behavior by doing that simple interaction with her? Vastly different!

But that also lead to working with an ex-breeding pair (extremely skittish male) and another female tiel (also probably handraised, but rest of history unknown other than severe neglect after her last home found her)

The most interesting thing I discovered? The bird that showed the *MOST* consistent behavior even when *I* didn't?!???!?! The skittish, ex-breeder male! If I stopped for weeks, even months at a time, that male was the first one to pick up the behavior as if I never stopped! I'm pretty sure he was a parent raised bird since he didn't show any inkling of ever having trusted a human before. After him was Faye. She actually demanded this behavior with me, but would become unsure/hesitant if I didn't keep up the consistency.



I can also tell you that if I kept this behavior up once I had taken in a *WILD CAUGHT* parrot with *NO* interest in human interaction, she, too, would probably be doing this behavior now as well, because she was watching me feed the cockatiels by hand. A bird that was imported May of 2013. Our Wild Bird Conservation Act went into law in 1992. A law which banned the importation of 99% of wild caught parrots. She wasn't imported illegally.... her species just didn't make it into the 99% of wild caught species that were banned.

 

[Shinobi]

All these video's, except the first one, shows a person just holding out their hand with some seed on it and birds landing on the hand to feed. Basically a human bird feeder. I would call that a social interaction, you are not training the bird because having birds land on you because you have food isn't training. That's a social interaction.

The first video shows that wherever the person with the food goes, the birds will follow. Yes a less confident bird will realise that

However I never seen a flock of birds at the same time, being trained to step up and down, turning around or being taught recall.

Maybe someone can but don't show a video of a hand full of seed and birds eating it


But If you showed a video of a flock of birds trained to wave on cue or turn around. Maybe even picking up toys and placing them in a bin as a group.