<sigh>

[Lady Jane]

Mostly I am in FB adult coloring groups for learning. They have been very good.

 

[greys4u]

Case in point: I have a 20 something neighbor that wants an African Grey. I asked why and he said he wants to teach bad language to the so the bird can tell his friends off. (and then giggled) Well, by the time I finished with him, telling him the good and bad about birds and his responsibility he said he wants to rethink it and also said he had no idea about what I told him, HE LISTENED

 

[DQTimnehs]

I’m on a few FB bird groups but stopped following the AG one as it was annoying. Not sure why as the others are fine. Not for the same reasons you mentioned. I think it was more arguing.

 

[redindiaink]

People asking if they should withhold food so they can train them.

I going to assume good faith on behalf of the asker ... should I? heh. The cornerstone of positive reinforcement training is food or praise, so if you have a bird that isn't very keen on food the advice is to remove their food and train them before a meal.

Withholding or restricting food is something that is done in dog training. You're not starving the dog, just making the dog work for their food. The idea behind it is not only does it increase motivation but it also makes it easier to control calories in overweight pets. I'm not sure how that would work with birds.

I know withholding/restricting food is used to teach birds to free fly. A falconer I knew would tie food to a lure to teach the bird to associate the lure with food. After training was completed the lure would be used to call the bird back to the falconer. (It's awesome to witness in person!) The first couple of minutes of this video explains it well.

 

[Garet]

Most of the bird groups in my area are just for buying and selling birds. I've joined a few species-oriented groups, but the bad backyard breeders and sellers seem to be rampant there, too. I really don't think FB is a good place for animal lovers, period.

 

[Hjarta5]

I am in a FB group for sennies; I joined because I followed a woman on IG who did trick training with her bird and I wanted to learn the same. Fortunately, the main group had a subgroup for just that -- so I often scroll through the other posts because most of them depress me. I think people do ask good questions, but lack the patience to actually follow the advice -- especially if its not an instant fix

As for withholding food, I have heard that too but would rather just offer special treats that they dont normally get for training purposes. The people behind parrot wizard is in this FB group and their photos are always great, but I remember seeing a video they posted of their sennie "enjoying" a treat and it made me feel weird in how focused and fast he was consuming it -- like a man getting his first piece of bread after being starved in prison or something. Im sure this is not the case, but its definitely not how my birds enjoy their food.

I joke about how much food my birds are wasting, but I dont ever want them to feel stressed about not having what they need. My thoughts on this is really captured by Flockcall's post on giving your birds "food confidence" or security: Flockcall - I read an article discussing food security in... | Facebook

 

[finchly]

@finchly , is it correct to with hold food for training? I don't think it would work at all for Louise...Then again, I don't really train her, I let the birdette be a bird. She will step up but not so much more than that.

No don’t do it. It’s bad for them. I mean, maybe remove the food dish a few minutes before you have a training session but don’t withhold food! Birds bodies are not like dogs and horses. They need constant Access to food.

 

[Jeff Sexton]

One of the biggest eye-openers as a new bird owner... Before getting a CAG, we got two cockatiels. We did a fair amount of reading before getting them, and even more after. The more I learned, the more stunning it seemed that we could walk into a store, and walk out with a cage, a bag of food, two cockatiels, the business card of a avian vet and a one page instruction sheet.

Everyone has to start someplace, but it's still pretty shocking. I don't even want to think of all the birds that end up in miserably inappropriate conditions.

 

[Shinobi]

No don’t do it. It’s bad for them. I mean, maybe remove the food dish a few minutes before you have a training session but don’t withhold food! Birds bodies are not like dogs and horses. They need constant Access to food.

What a load of rot. Finchly can you please explain how it's bad for a bird. I don't think a bird is going to starve to death in a few minutes, nor do they need constant Access to food.

We remove Henry's food every night when he goes to bed and in the morning before Henry gets breakfast we do a 10 to 15 minute training session. Henry is of an idea weight for his age, size and species (427 Grams).

Below is a link that shows that companion birds can become overweight, just like other pets and it's usually due to constant access to food, wrong diet and very little excise (flying)

http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

 

[Hjarta5]

I didn't get the impression from finchly's post that she meant it to the extent you're suggesting Also saying "what a load of rot" seems unnecessary if you just want to disagree. I admit, I'm a bit sensitive these days, but even reading it made me feel bad

 

[finchly]

The people behind parrot wizard is in this FB group and their photos are always great, but I remember seeing a video they posted of their sennie "enjoying" a treat and it made me feel weird in how focused and fast he was consuming it -- like a man getting his first piece of bread after being starved in prison or something. Im sure this is not the case, but its definitely not how my birds enjoy their food.

This is the main problem with withholding food for training purposes. It gets overdone, or people forget. Some birds have such a fast metabolism they simply can’t handle these periods without food. Finches and canaries can die in only a few hours.

@Shinobi your example of withholding food (two adults removing bird food at night) had little basis in this discussion, which is withholding for training purposes as encouraged by Parrot Wizard. And I won’t even get into your immaturity in addressing me.

Holding back food for limited periods of time for training is not ethical. It can ruin the bird’s sense of security in the home. It can lead to crop impaction because they tend to gobble the food when it’s returned, as @Hjarta5 indicated. And if there is an underlying illness the bird could become very sick.

Furthermore, we always must keep in mind that there are minors on the board, and people who have perhaps less life experience. So we must take care in describing certain methods— we do not want to encourage starvation.

@Sweet Louise none of this statement has anything to do with you. You’re a great parront. Just addressing some salient points on the topic.

 

[Shinobi]

This is the main problem with withholding food for training purposes. It gets overdone, or people forget. Some birds have such a fast metabolism they simply can’t handle these periods without food. Finches and canaries can die in only a few hours.

@Shinobi your example of withholding food (two adults removing bird food at night) had little basis in this discussion, which is withholding for training purposes as encouraged by Parrot Wizard. And I won’t even get into your immaturity in addressing me.

Holding back food for limited periods of time for training is not ethical. It can ruin the bird’s sense of security in the home. It can lead to crop impaction because they tend to gobble the food when it’s returned, as @Hjarta5 indicated. And if there is an underlying illness the bird could become very sick.

Furthermore, we always must keep in mind that there are minors on the board, and people who have perhaps less life experience. So we must take care in describing certain methods— we do not want to encourage starvation.

@Sweet Louise none of this statement has anything to do with you. You’re a great parront. Just addressing some salient points on the topic.

I don't endorse with-holding food or starvation. But to imply that food should only be removed for a few minutes or it's bad for them and that birds need constant access to food is a load of BS
Actually the main problem is the over-feeding of birds, dogs and cats. obesity in pets is a major problem. talk to a vet about it. Wild animals do not have constant access to food. To see a B & G macaw that weights 2415 grams when he should weight no more than 1100 grams is terrible, and so is the data that the birds that attend this vet's clinic, shows that most are over weight.

you say that holding back food for limited periods of time is not ethical. But is it ethical to allow birds constant access to food when it can cause obesity and associated health issues?

I did some research, finches and canaries can last for 6 to 7 hours without food and they slow down their metabolism during sleep. Also a sparrow can only survive 15 hours without food in 5 degree Fahrenheit conditions, but three days in warm summer conditions. therefore temperature also effects the animal.

Parrots are normally diurnal, so they don't feed during the night, so removing food at night time is not withholding food. But I take the opportunely to train Henry prior to giving him breakfast. Because Henry is hungry, not STARVING, he is motivated to train. it's about Utilising the bird's environment, needs and desires to train, bond and build trust. Henry trusts us to the point where he will lie on his back and allow us to scratch his belly. So much for ruining a sense of security in the home.

I think that the forum's minors and people with less experience with birds, dogs and cats should be aware that the diet and excise is vital to ensure their pet is kept at a healthy weight. While with-holding food is unethical, so is allowing an animal constant access to food. If a bird needs to eats 40% of it body weight a day to maintain a healthy weight, then only give it 40%. This is controlling the bird food intake.