Urgent sick eleonora cockatoo - dosage information question

[enigma731]

Can the pharmacist get you the syrup?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Looked through some boxes and so far can't find the file with the records from the vet. I might have boxed them up and stored them in the garage. I'll try to look there and if I find anything I will let you know. I hope that you can find the correct information or were able to get in touch with a vet who can advise. How is Beaker doing today?

 

[Hankmacaw]

From Dr. Scott McDonald

"REGLAN

(methoclopramide)

syrup

(1mg/ml)

 
 Give
0.05ml/100g
body


weight
orally,
three
times
daily."

Jasper was prescribed .5ml of 1mg per ml twice a day. That would be .05ml X100 (She weighs around 1100 gm) x 2. Metaclopromide has few side effects

 

[iamwhoiam]

From Dr. Scott McDonald

"REGLAN

(methoclopramide)

syrup

(1mg/ml)

 
 Give
0.05ml/100g
body


weight
orally,
three
times
daily."

That's what I posted above except for the three time a day. When I had to give birds Reglan they were only given that 2X a day but I don't remember the concentration. I still think it's best if she can contact the vet or another vet who can confirm the dose and if a tablet is being compounded can also confirm the dilution.

If 'too is dropping weight and not eating or drinking enough probably best to bring back to vet.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Reglan is quite benign and has few side effects, so IMO she can go ahead and give that poor damn bird a dose and get it out of being so miserable. Sometimes we have to use our own brains rather than let a bird needlessly suffer.

I can't figure what everyone is so afraid of. The correct dosage has been given several times.

 

[enigma731]

Reglan is quite benign and has few side effects, so IMO she can go ahead and give that poor damn bird a dose and get it out of being so miserable. Sometimes we have to use our own brains rather than let a bird needlessly suffer.

I can't figure what everyone is so afraid of. The correct dosage has been given several times.

It's the fact that she has pills rather than syrup. Making pills into an equivalent concentration is not always straightforward.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Fla baby
It's 4.5 x .05 at 1mg/ml. If you have a 5mg tablet dissolve it in 5ml of water and you have a 1mg/ml solution.

 

[Hankmacaw]

It's not hard at all, if you have any mathematical background - and if you don't you can always ask one of us who does.

Just add one cc of liquid for every gram of the pill (i.e. 5mg pill in 5ml of water = a 1mg/ml solution - exactly what Dr. McDonald gave the dosage for). I would be nice, but not necessary it she has .09% saline solution. distilled water will work and if she has nothing else spring water will work.

 

[rocky'smom]

Use either boiled or distilled water.JMHO

 

[enigma731]

It's not just math. Pills that are crushed and suspended will have different pharmacodynamic properties than a syrup. Whether that will affect the bird or not in this case, I don't know. I'm bowing out of this now because it's getting too close to professional advice and this field is only adjacent to my specialty, not what I actually do. I hope it all works out.

 

[rockybird]

Did the vet also check for yeast infection? I know this can cause regurgitation.

 

[rocky'smom]

@Fia Baby how is Beaker?

 

[Fia Baby]

So sorry to take so long in getting back, but I don't have internet at home, and live about 20 minutes from town. I followed the dosing information that I was able to confirm from 3 separate sources (.05 mg/100 g body weight) and decided to follow my gut and do something positive for her. Once I was clear on that decision, the rest was obvious: I crushed the 5 mg tablet, and added it to 5 ml of a thickened sugar syrup that I made at home (that gave me a 1mg per ml solution, (like Mary Lynn said), then gave her .15 mg of it (though she could have had a stronger dose - I figured I could always follow up with a stronger dose if needed). I'm so glad I did that! I waited 30 minutes and gave her the baytril, and she kept it down, and then went on to eat and kept that down as well. Before that, I was pretty certain that she wouldn't live through the weekend. The emergency number supplied by the first vet refused to help me out, unless I brought her all the way back to them (at least 4-5 hours of travel and exam time), and I just didn't think she could handle the stress of another trip at that point (but they really didn't care about that), and they aren't avian vets anyway... I'm really fortunate that I have a personal connection with the pharmacist, and that I have this group as a resource for the dosing information. Despite the exceedingly poor health care she's now doing really well. She's still taking the 2 meds plus benebac, and is now eating and drinking without regurgitation. The baytril is very bitter, and she responded really poorly to taking it until I added it to a thickened sugar syrup (I pull .10 mg of the syrup into the pre-filled syringes). I'm still massaging her crop, and it seems to be emptying well now. My main concern now is why this happened and how to prevent it again. I think I may start adding some apple cider vinegar to her diet, not daily, but regularly. Anyone else do this?

 

[Birdbabe]

Add the apple cider vinegar " Braggs" brand to her water 3 times a week. I do this, 4 or 5 drops per cup..shake the vinegar first to mix it well. It really does help with crop nasties .

 

[Fia Baby]

@Birdbabe -thank you - I'm going to start doing that with both of my girls. I don't think Beaker drinks much water (she has a very moist diet because of her beak), but dunking her food will give her a bit.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Good for you - sometimes you just have to use what you have available and the brainpower given you. You can't just sit by and watch your bird die.

Yes, Baytril is super duper bitter and that is a good way to get her to take it. Baytril LONG TERM (GIVEN OVER WEEKS) will also cause ulcers in the stomach. Since you are giving both a fungicide and an antibiotic, I would recommend that you start her on probiotics. I use this Amazon.com : AviBios Probiotics (2 Ounce) : Pet Supplies It is a powder and can just be sprinkled over their food - preferably 1 hour after giving the meds. Baytril has a 45 min. adsorption time and before then it will kill the good bugs in the probiotics.

It's hard to ever determine how a bird gets an infection, but it could have been due to her eating something she shouldn't have and getting impacted. Is she bad about chewing on stuff and swallowing it?

 

[rocky'smom]

So sorry to take so long in getting back, but I don't have internet at home, and live about 20 minutes from town. I followed the dosing information that I was able to confirm from 3 separate sources (.05 mg/100 g body weight) and decided to follow my gut and do something positive for her. Once I was clear on that decision, the rest was obvious: I crushed the 5 mg tablet, and added it to 5 ml of a thickened sugar syrup that I made at home (that gave me a 1mg per ml solution, (like Mary Lynn said), then gave her .15 mg of it (though she could have had a stronger dose - I figured I could always follow up with a stronger dose if needed). I'm so glad I did that! I waited 30 minutes and gave her the baytril, and she kept it down, and then went on to eat and kept that down as well. Before that, I was pretty certain that she wouldn't live through the weekend. The emergency number supplied by the first vet refused to help me out, unless I brought her all the way back to them (at least 4-5 hours of travel and exam time), and I just didn't think she could handle the stress of another trip at that point (but they really didn't care about that), and they aren't avian vets anyway... I'm really fortunate that I have a personal connection with the pharmacist, and that I have this group as a resource for the dosing information. Despite the exceedingly poor health care she's now doing really well. She's still taking the 2 meds plus benebac, and is now eating and drinking without regurgitation. The baytril is very bitter, and she responded really poorly to taking it until I added it to a thickened sugar syrup (I pull .10 mg of the syrup into the pre-filled syringes). I'm still massaging her crop, and it seems to be emptying well now. My main concern now is why this happened and how to prevent it again. I think I may start adding some apple cider vinegar to her diet, not daily, but regularly. Anyone else do this?

I'm glad that Beaker is doing better. I add braggs apple cider vinegar to my birds water 3 times a week. @Lady Jane 2teaspoons to 1quart of water keep it in frig.

 

[iamwhoiam]

Good that Beaker is doing better. Hope he continues to improve.

 

[Fia Baby]

@Hankmacaw - do you think the avibios probiotics are needed in addition to the benebac?

And yes - she likes to spend part of her day trying to stick various items (a molted feather, a piece of paper, or a piece of dried poop or food, whatever she can get that's small... into a small gap between the sections of her cage. It's like her rubics cube.

 

[Hankmacaw]

No just one or the other. Some prefer Avibios and some prefer Benebac, but they are both basically the same thing.