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Rocket Has Gout. Suggestions Wanted.

Discussion in 'Bird Emergency Highway 911' started by Teasha, 2/18/12.

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  1. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    I am so sorry Teasha. Poor Rocket. I can't imagine how you are feeling about this. Do not give up hope for him but you need to talk to your vet about your options. When you get all the test results and you get a list of meds talk to your vet about all your questions. Write them down if you need to. When Korbel was very ill I could not feed him, he needed to be tube fed, he was hospitalized for many days. If this happens does your vet have 24 hour care? The list of questions you have must be endless so write them down for you don't forget to ask important things. I'm so sorry. Prayers for you and Rocket
     
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  2. kcbee

    kcbee Animal Lover Celebirdy of the Month

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    I'm sorry Rocket isn't feeling well. I don't have anything to contribute but hugs :sadhug2:
     
  3. Marlene

    Marlene Welcome to the neighborhood!

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    :(Poor Rocket. Hope you can make him comfortable. Hugs to you both.:hug8::hug8:
     
  4. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    Aww you guys are gonna make me cry lol. It is heart breaking I feel like I am losing him.

    If he needs to be tube fed that is no life for him. Maybe I need a crop needle for him. I do have one for adult sized budgies but I'm not sure if at 7 weeks he fits into that category yet. No they do not have 24 hour care and no emergency care on weekends for birds. My situation is there is an avian vet a half hour from me, but too many birds have been lost to her and her cure is Baytril. I also work with someone who used to work there and know some of the things that went on inside there and so I chose an avian vet that is an hour away. The vet does not have emergency care on the weekends so I can call another one about 2-2 1/2 hrs away or the one that is 1/2 hr away. That vet once made me wait 6 hours after one of my birds was attacked by a cat. So I would rather not go there unless I have to. I am sad to say this will be my 3rd trip there within one week and it will have to be my last this month until my taxes come. Which they should come in about a week. The first trip was $60 and the second $75. I am not paying my phone bill and others so he can be cared for, but I have to have some money for gas etc.

    I have made a list of questions to ask, I feel like she will just tell me to use this med for cats she mentioned. I wrote it down somewhere and lost it, I'm so stressed. But I will write down the drugs mentioned here and see what she thinks. Also natural foods...

    I have been searching endlessly about gout. The Harrisons site showed a bird who was 'cured' after transferring to Harrisons, but I would guess if true it was because of diet. I have read multiple sites that say cherries. But Pat posted that site and the way they made cherries sound is it may be a cure or a preventative so I went and bought a jar. They didn't have fresh ones so settled with canned. I had him just sip the juice so far, his crop is full but when I feed his again I will chop it up really fine and add it to his mash. I really hope it is magic, but the was a lot of people sound is death is usually sooner than later.

    I'm hoping his brother never has this problem....

    Thanks again for all your support.
     
  5. Aquabird

    Aquabird Strolling the yard

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    My first budgie got gout. I too had to make that hard decision to euthanize my baby. It got super hard for my little guy to hold onto perches and he spent a lot of time on the floor of his cage.
     
  6. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Teasha, again I am so sorry. It would be very wise of you to choose the best avian vet you can find to make these next decisions. The closest is not going to cut it, I drive 2 hours to get to my vet. My vet does not have 24 hour care so I made sure I knew what vet I would be using should it have come to that and it did. When I walked in that ER they had all my papers and records for Korbel ready. When he was hospitalized it cost over $600 per day and they was solely monitoring, feeding, and incubator / oxygen fees. No additional tests. Korbel had Avian Gastric Yeast, what they used to call mega-bacteria and everything I read on it said he probably would not make it and if he did, he would continue to have it reoccur for the rest of his life. I read the meds used rarely worked and they would become very ill. Korbel is sitting on me while I write this. Get up to date information on this. Use the best avian vet you can find. We were going to have money problems and we applied for a care credit card for Korbel. Please do not try to tube feed yourself, I have been shown many times how and still do not feel comfortable enough to do it. All in all it is alot to deal with and I'm so sorry. Please choose a good vet, if it comes to the point you are talking about having to put him down you will want to feel that your vet did everything they could do.

    :sadhug2:
     
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  7. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    Rocket is doing much better. He has more urates in his stool and was trying millet and seed today. He is taking food better too. I feel more optimistic today. I will be asking my vet about the medications to help with gout. :)
     
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  8. Kathie

    Kathie Biking along the boulevard Avenue Spotlight Award

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    :dance4::dance4::dance4::dance4:
     
  9. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    That is great news and I'm glad you are feeling a small amount better. Don't get discouraged, there are always good days and not so good days when you have a sick bird. I used to keep a journal of how Korbel ate and weighed him daily. You said Rocket has a brother? How is he doing?
     
  10. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    Yes he is doing wonderful! Checked his feet just today and nothing.

    I am thinking this is from his hand feeding formula which is Kaytee Excact and has 22% protein in it. Gout can be caused by too much protein. And I have been told 20% is all they can tolerate. So I am thinking I need to get him off it and onto something else quick. The vet is going to test the sores on Thursday to be sure it is gout. I asked about a kidney function test and she said it requires a larger amount of blood and it would be harder in a baby bird. So I need to decide if I should. It seems rather important. I'm having his band removed then too. And the med she will prescribe is Welactin.
     
  11. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    Teasha, are you feeding the Kaytee high fat formula? I think that would be way to much for your baby. I am no expert but I just looked at my formula bags. My zupreem embrace plus (plus being for macaws that require alot of fat & protein ) is only 19%. My Kaytee high fat formula is 22%. Rocket does not require this much. When I used the high fat formula I mixed it very lightly in my regular formula because my macaw was rapidly losing weight. I really think you need to change formulas.
     
  12. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    Oh no :( Ok I will have to look into thAt! Have you heard or Welatin being used in gout birds?
     
  13. rockybird

    rockybird Rollerblading along the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    Is it Welactin? I looked this up on google and it says it's an omega-3 fatty acid supplement for dogs and cats. It is not a prescription medication. I dont see anything about it treating gout. Why isnt she prescribing allopurinol? Is there a reason? Is she waiting to confirm that it's gout? Or maybe this isnt a good medication in young birds? I think I would specifically ask her.
     
  14. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    I looked it up too that is why I am asking. She is on the Avian Association Website but I guess that means nothing. I asked why and she said it's not safe to use in a bird so young/small... Also tomorrow I am calling for a second opinion. This weird medicine concerns me...
     
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  15. Macawnutz

    Macawnutz Seriously Nutz! Super Administrator AA Advertising Exec Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Spotlight Award Avenue Veteran

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    I also read nothing about welactin treating gout. I read allopurinol treats gouts and they do use it on young birds. I also read that you should be giving black cherry juice to him if he has gout. You could mix it in your formula but I am not sure how much. Not sure about the second opinion, where is the first opinion? Is it confirmed gout? Is that all your vet will put her on, welactin?
     
  16. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    I read it 'protects' kidney function. That's it. :( I have been feeding him cherries. I read to feed cherries from this site: Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Kitchen Physician II Foods As Natural Medicines for pet parrots, exotic pet birds But if it's black cherry juice I can run and get that instead. The first opinion is this vet. She hasn't confirmed it because the vet tech who did tests last time wasn't told I wanted the test done! And when I mentioned it she acted like she was confused so it was postponed till this Thursday. I also think I should insist on a kidney function test done. I think it's important to know if it is working. Ya know I don't know. She said that is what she would prescribe and said the others were risky. I never asked he if I want him on it will you put him on it. I'm going to ask again what it is about the Welactin that helps and if she would put him on the allopurinol.
     
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  17. Cinnyluver

    Cinnyluver Rollerblading along the road Celebirdy of the Month

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    I'm so glad he's doing better! :hug8:
     
  18. Teasha

    Teasha Rollerblading along the road

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    Thank you! Hopefully after Thursday he is even better!
     
  19. rockybird

    rockybird Rollerblading along the road Celebirdy of the Month Mayor of the Avenue Avenue Veteran

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    i think that's a good plan. I dont know that I would do the kidney function tests if she doesnt recommend it due to the amt. of blood it requires. Little birds have a very tiny blood volume. I think I would also get a second opinion, but maybe wait to see what she has to say tomorrow. Is he doing any better?
     
  20. srtiels

    srtiels Rollerblading along the road Mayor of the Avenue

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    Below is info I have saved on my computer and what has worked best for me.
    ------------------------------
    Birds CAN be treated successfully, and live a long healthy life.

    Renal problems are not exclusive to diet or genetics. A simple accident where the tiel get wedged somewhere with the wings up...even for a couple of minutes can cause a chill to the kidneys...thus crystallization of the urates, and if not caught soon enough, and the bird hydrated by Sub-Q fluids (means subcutaneous, fluids injected under the skin and absorbed by tisssues) it can go into renal failure and die.

    Excess protein in the diet can contribute to to renal problems and failure. A breeder friend of mine added powdered protein to her hand-feeding formula to beef up her babies. Within 24 hours 11 out of 12 babies went into renal failure and died.

    Pesticides or toxins can cause renal failure.

    Symptoms to watch for that could indicate the bird is at risk of of renal failure: The bird acts lethagic. The muscles feel bunched and tight. The eyes are slitted from excruciating pain. There is either blood (pinkish discoloration) in the urine, or the urates will be thin, gritty, and chalky looking. Quick action of Sub-Q therapy can actually reverse the renal failure and save a bird.

    The following helps with Gout and impaired Renal/Kidney function.

    Initial treatment would be a medication called allopurinol. Usually you will see a dramatic improvement with the bird within a day.

    Other helpful things are adding a small amount of cranberry or cherry juice to the drinking water. This helps to break down some of the crystals formed from the uric acid.

    Hulled oats (oat groats) helps to reduce uric acid levels.

    Celery greens and seeds are good for renal problems and act as an antiseptic to disinfect the urinary tubules. Celery is an excellent food that digests well with almost anything else. It contains the necessary mineral sodium, which is present in a ratio that can be easily accessed by the body. Sodium is critical, along with the mineral potassium, in managing the body's electrolyte balance. Electrolytes create electric osmotic pressure which helps the body to move fluids through the cell's membranes.

    The silk from ear corn (organically grown or a herbal extract from a health food store) will sooth the damaged urinary tract, and improve urine flow. Plus corn silk is a source of potassium, Vitamin C and K.

    Plain grass, roots and all (no joke, cats/dogs will eat this if they have urinary problems) will benefit both the liver and kidneys.

    Dandilion greens helps with the liver, but it also aids the kidneys by stimulating them to remove toxins in the urine.
    The above is a few simple things to help those with renal/kidney problems. I've personally used many of the above things to help the bird and not lose it.
     
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