Rescue Greenwing

[Megamacawlove]

Hello!

I'm hoping for some behavior analysis as well as tips on a rescued greenwing my husband and I got around four months ago. He's settling in well and is now ending the honeymoon phase and also hormones are hitting at the same time. Thankfully he adores my husband, and they have bonded (perhaps too much?) very well, so overall our new fid B. is adjusting great to his new home.

His history is a bit spotty, we knew when we got him he prefers men. I'm his primary caretaker however and the bird lover in the family. We fell in love with B. when we went to meet another bird at a family's house. He was on the fence about a bird so B. is our only and we liked the thought that since B prefered men my husband might not need to work as much at bonding. It was a bad situation where he was clearly pretty unhappy. Too many birds, and we found out a flip situation. He had a completely uncared for scissor beak. Feathers were a wreck. He was in general fearful but more specificly of the woman handling him. We interacted for a bit and he stepped right up for both of us great and surprisingly was letting my husband pet him right away. We took him home knowing it might be a tough situation but that we didn't want him staying there.

Now, he's deeply bonded to my husband. He will call "come back, bubba" or squawk a bit to him when he leaves the room. Will crawl across furniture for pets. I can't be affectionate with my husband in the room or he will lunge at me. Hes trying to throw up on my husband but we always stop him before anything comes up. We limit full body cuddles and back pets and burrowing behavior to try to deter the excessive bonding.

At first B would step up for me great. We started clicker training and he was doing great with target training. He shied away from my hands a LOT, so I tried not to push that and we focused on just talking to each other and the clicker work. Because of this in the 4 months hes been with us he's become super talkative especially with me. That strengthed his physical bond with my husband. He went through a heavy molt with the new diet so showering and help with difficult pin feathers was all the husband.

Then he began to bite my arm in the mornings when I got him out of his cage. I didn't react, but rather set him on the floor for a moment and looked at him sternly and said no bite. Then they started to get harder. To the point where to get him out of the cage without a bone crushing bite to my forearm that he would hold until I moved him to the floor; I have to now use a step up stick now or my husband gets him.

He started chasing me across the couch and floor when agitated attempting to and sometimes biting me around the same time I became unable to get him out of his cage. I don't react as much as possible, but it's difficult. My husband gets frustrated but I try to keep him as calm because I know any reaction will be rewarding to B.

But here's where I get confused. B. will follow me around his tree stand, furniture, and cage talking to me and engaging me with dancing, toys to play? He doesn't seem aggressive here, instead more engaged. When I approach - bam! For my face! Sometimes I can see it coming... if he is near my husband and he puts his wings out wide, or does his angry puff or the different kind of dance... but how can he act like me and then bite me so hard he's close to causing nerve damage? Is he luring me in, haha? We also sometimes have really positive interactions where he will dance with me to music and play with toys and talk to me but will no longer interact with me physically at all to the point where I have to say "be nice" before I offer a treat, and even then sometimes have to give it with a flat hand or he will go for my fingers.

Please help. I adore my fid. I've talked to a few people who claim he's just a one person bird and it's not me... but I wonder if perhaps there's more I could be doing here and I'm missing something?? I know this is a novel, if you made it through THANK YOU! Debating getting a behaviorist at this point.

-Meg

 

[sunnysmom]

I will let some of our macaw people answer but wanted to say welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you're having a rough time.

@Hankmacaw ? @Macawnutz ? @JLcribber (I know you don't have a macaw John but I can't find your helpful article....) @faislaq ?

 

[JLcribber]

Your bird is just acting upon its natural instincts. There's nothing to "fix" really where the bird is concerned. It's going to be about you guys adapting the situation and yourselves to make it work.

This article will fill in a lot of blanks and give ways to approach things. Basically you will need to establish your own relationship with the bird "outside of your husbands presence". When he's around, you are an intruder/competition.

Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine

 

[Megamacawlove]

Thanks JLcribber. I meant more, what can I fix that I and my husband are doing. Your article was actually helpful with that! We already have tried a lot of things to reduce the sexual stimulation, not allowing him to regurgitate, only head/beak touches, no burrowing, no cuddling, we reduced his UV light and the fat content of his diet a little bit at someone's suggestion as well so he was getting more sleep and those all have helped.

I didn't know about the instructional attention as far as floor play (we do play mostly on couch/tree stand/cage etc so that might be helpful as well as adding more instructional stimulation than just target training)

I also liked the bit about guided leadership in that article. B does seem to be very hesitant around me sometimes, distrustful almost so perhaps if I work on this via routine then our relationship will strengthen. I don't need the same relationship as my husband, but I would like to be able to interact with him regularly without lunges.

 

[Megamacawlove]

Thanks sunnysmom! It's been very helpful as I lurked in my research, before we got B. I finally decided I needed to post! Hopefully soon I can contribute helpful things instead of needing the help haha.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Hi Megan - welcome to AA. GWs are my very favorites, but they are not generally an easy bird.

If you could tell us a few things we might be able to help you more. Are you sure that B is a boy? How old is he? What is his diet? How long is he out of his cage on a daily basis? Has he been to see the vet yet for a well bird check up? Do you think that he was abused in his former home?

The advice I can give you right away, is to avoid every bite like the plague. A successful bite is a self perpetuating bite and he will continue biting. A Greenwing can do way to much damage to allow him to bite and just take it. If he is hormonal right now, it would probably be a good thing for you to just back off until he comes out of it and continue using the stick to move him. They just aren't rational when hormonal. Keep interacting with him, but don't push him. If he does bite or bite at you, look him right in the eye, tell him "no bad bird" in a mean voice and walk away - macaws are sponges for attention.

It sounds like you are doing well with him. Just keep it up and don't let him hurt you.

@macawpower58 @aooratrix

 

[Megamacawlove]

Hi Hank!

We don't know for certain he's male, just that he's 13 and hasn't lain an egg. But he's only 1088g which our vet says is okay but I know he is a bit small for a male so he may be a she haha. He's had a check up and everything came back looking good as far as a well bird visit. He does barber his wings a bit but other than that he's getting great plumage now too. We are also slowly but regularly going to the vet to get the scissor beak under control too.

Diet: He eats Harrison's pellets, fresh fruits and veggies usually a blend of what we are eating into a chop for the week or a birdie corn bread, a few pistachio seeds for rewards, 2-4 almonds, 1 walnut for shelled nuts because that's all he can crack, a small amount of ABBA1500 sans peanuts. I had been feeding some hemp seeds and pine nuts but cut those out as well as some of his nuts/fruit/seed at another bird owners suggestion to reduce the fats/sugar. He's out of his cage for about 6 hours a day, but only like 3 of that he will actually interact with my husband. I can get a good hour of through cage interaction with him before breakfast after hubby leaves for work (clicker training/singing/treats through the bars/talking/dancing to music) and maybe he will talk to me and play like he is going to interact with me positively while out but usually he doesn't want me unless hes in his cage. And even then he will sometimes lunge through the bars. (When he does I end the session)

I appreciate what you're saying about not just taking the bites. I have been avoiding reacting to them, but I do try to avoid them when I can. Some fellow bird owners have made me feel kind of... weak for dodging them? Or like it will make him see me as afraid of him. He has only drawn blood once so I know hes using some inhibition, but his pressure bites take almost my whole forearm!

I think he was abused in a former home. He is just very hand shy of women in general and anxious-constantly trembling no matter how warm we keep the house and reluctant to play with any toys or move in his cage and was even reluctant to make noise when we first got him. Couldn't get him to shower/bathe for the first month because he was afraid of water bottle and had to get him used to the perch. But I'm not sure. He acts like he wants my attention and for me to engage with him but then he will bite me and shy away from me. I'd say I'm reading his language wrong but it's the same ques I see him give my husband. That's what makes me think it's me, but I've interacted with other birds and macaws specifically with success. It wasnt until I got several bad bites from B that I started to even lose my confidence a little when handling friends birds.

 

[macawpower58]

I've had my GW since 5 weeks old, he's now 19.

I've been through it all from snuggly baby, to loving toddler, to rebellious teen, and to the devil in red.
It sounds to me like you're going through the devil in red stage.
My bird 'Chaos' went through it right about your bird's age.
I'm not sure, but it seems like it can start (hormones) earlier, later like my bird, or pretty much pass by unseen.
I also was chased, bit, and threatened. And my poor boy had no one else to love either, it was rough on both of us.

Hankmacaw is right, don't get bit. EVER if possible. Stop handling him. Right now he does not want that from you. If you can interact with words, dance, songs etc... that is all you should do.
It will be hubby's job to move him, handle him, etc.... If you must carry him, keep a heavy shirt on to protect your arm.
In time, the hormones driving him will calm. Even if they don't you'll learn in what ways you and he can cohabitate.
Chaos was bad for several years. He is now over the 'kill Mom' stage, but we still are pretty much hands off. I can carry him place to place, and he'll sit on my leg for a short time.
But that is all we do in touching terms. We do not snuggle, and I do not pet. Chaos says NO. I listen.

My bird also became cage territorial. Which means fingers on 'his' bars are bit at. I'm quick though and he's not got me for a long time.
I did have to teach him to go to a perch if he wants me to get him out. Now he quickly goes and waits for me to open the door and offer my arm.
If I'd just reach in for him without this request, I'd get bit more often than not.
Also, don't lie. I did once to get him in his cage, and after that he would not step up for me. I had to regain his trust.
Now I use bribery shamelessly, but am truthful about where I'm taking him.

They are awesome birds, but you will need to develop certain ways of living with him.
You will find acts of love towards your hubby will bring out jealousy and aggression.
Keep those kisses behind birdie's back if possible.

One more thing, Chaos also now does not like my hands. Why? I have no idea. He was hand fed, wore a harness in his youth, I could do anything with him. When the hormones hit he started not liking my hands reaching for him. I wish I knew, but don't think abuse right away. Many birds love us, but not our hands.

 

[Megamacawlove]

I like what you said about listening to the no. A lot of people I talk to here I've met through a local rescue and our bird store where I buy toys and food are big on not letting the bird say no to you which has never sat right with my husband or I! We have always felt B let's us know what he is uncomfortable with or doesn't want and we see no reason to force anything unless it's a safety concern. One of the first NASTY bites I got was for grabbing the base of a new perch (now given away) he was on and when he was moving too fast he almost toppled it off the kitchen table. I unthinkingly went to stabalize it quickly so it wouldnt fall and hit him as it fell.

I bought kevlar sleeves to wear under my long sleeves more to help with my anxiousness for when we do step up practice since hes walking over and acting like he wants me to pick him up sometimes but I'm nervous to even try now. This seems to upset him, especially when my husband isn't home.

I'll definitely try to reduce the loving signs with the hubs in an effort to minimize the jealousy. We already are doing seperate couches when we have family living room time. I definitely bribe shameless as well!

You're making me feel a lot better for this!! An employee at the bird store said that was dumb because then the one time I dont have the treat or even with treat need a big ask of him he will nail me because he has no respect for me if I'm not showing him that he can't get his way with aggression/only sees me as his food caddy. But I kinda look at it as why force him to do something he doesn't have to do? If I can convince him it's his idea or wait until he wants to everyone's much happier. Why would he bite me for no reason if he knows that more often than not every association has been positive if I consistently show him biting doesn't result in the same positive results?

I don't know maybe I still have the wrong attitude about it but what you guys are saying aligns a lot more than what my local resources have been saying to my internal thoughts. I got B to love him not for him to love me if that makes sense. But I do want him to feel safe around me and trust me. And I also want him to not see me as a threat to the extent he's lunging so much he's falling off of things which has happened. So if I can change things I'm doing to make him more secure that's what I want to do. I read the stickied hormone thread and saw some info about chaos and a bird named Petey that had some super helpful stuff I want to try as well like the tea and more showers (don't think we are at shots or anything like that yet) but also just seeing that this is more common than I thought is reassuring and that there are ways to work through it helps.

 

[macawpower58]

I like how you're thinking. I've had years to figure out why Chaos does what he does. I've come to the conclusion, I'll never know.
He's hurt my feelings, broken my heart, and got my panties in a bunch more times than I care to think about. I walk away, cry a few tears or have a drink. I have to get over it.
There's times I've wanted to shake his cage so hard he falls off his perch. Times I've loved him so hard I want to smush him to my chest. I do neither.
I figure as long as we're roommates and friends, that's good enough for me. I am not, nor do I want to be his love interest. He loves on soft material. I'll give him a soft wash rag or sock to drag around and love on. His favorite thing is to pull it in a dark corner (under a chair or blanket) and feed it. That's fine with me. We can't even stop hormones in ourselves. How do we expect to stop the calls of nature in our birds. I've not had to resort to medical ways either, thank goodness.

Repetition, habit, respect and choice are the best tools we have in my opinion. Give them respect and choices.
Teach through repetition and conditioning (like on a perch before coming out) work well.

Sometimes I wonder if I'd have made this decision to live with this wild animal, if I knew what the next 19 years would have been like.
The answer is yes. For my many, many hard times, the awe and thrill I have when I see him, make every moment worth it.

 

[Megamacawlove]

You're making me feel a lot more reassured about the situation, thank you. I'm of a similar opinion I think. I'm willing to change my own habits to make him more comfortable but I was feeling very wrong about simply forcing my way through these bites hoping that "toughing it out" and kind of forcing my presence/authority was the right solution. I'd much rather he WANT to spend time with me and live a happy healthy life.

But the people I talk to in person insist that if I don't force handle him through this (someone suggested TOWEL REMOVING HIM FROM HIS CAGE?! Then forcing him to sit with me?) then he will never be hand tame for me at all instead of just waiting the hormones out and just working through this in other ways. They were saying my husband would be the only one to handle him ever if we weren't more firm with him by forcing him to step up for me and allowing handling but that just didn't feel right with me so I haven't been doing it as they recomend. To me the opposite seems true. If he is screaming at me with every manner he has no, I'm uncomfortable please stop and I do it anyway then what will that do to our bond? I'm relieved I turned here instead.

 

[JLcribber]

Stay here my dear and get sound experienced advice.

I live with a big male cockatoo (15 years) who will not hesitate to take me out if my wife is in the room. When she's not there we are good buddys now because I earned his trust and respect. It will happen but it will take time.

To handle him with your flesh is just asking for a bite and you are "providing the opportunity". I would recommend you start conditioning him to use a "tool". A T stick is your best tool.

Give this a read.
Pictures - The T stick. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

You might also get something out of this.

Connecting and Communicating with your Highly Intelligent Parrot. | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

 

[Hankmacaw]

@macawpower58 Has one of the most beautiful GWs I've ever seen - but, he is not the gentle giant the bird seller talk about.

I do have a gentle giant GW right now. Her name is Jasper, I've had her 19 years and she was a hand raised, never abused or mistreated and greatly loved bird before she was given to me at 6 1/2 years old. She was near death with congestive heart disease when she was given to me. She has never really bitten me, doesn't like anyone else, but will occasionally put up with another person - as long as I'm not around. Hank, my male GW who died seven yeas ago, was the meanest bird I've every seen. He was a wild caught, sold at auction, stuck In a cage without any attention for six years, then sold to a LV Casino as a display bird and was physically abused for ten years. I learned all about his background from the woman who was the bird keeper at the casino for the two years before I got him - she worked with him a lot and he was barely handleable when I got him. He was also deathly ill with Aspergillosis when I got him. So I've had one of each.

It was five years before Hank and I became buddies and during that five years we both had to make concessions. He never got over completely coming unglued when he was frightened or surprised, but I learned to handle those times and calm him down. Hank loved sitting on my arm dancing to rock'n roll, playing tug of war with a wash cloth, just having a conversation with me - back and forth, laying on his back in my lap and playing with keys and playing tricks on me and Jasper and going outside. Jasper has always been a suckup, but doesn't allow cuddling for over 3 seconds, but will sit on my lap for hours, and play quietly on her own.

My point - each and every GW is different, they mature no more than a 5year old at the outside and that makes us the adult in the room - so it's up to us.

 

[Fia Baby]

It sounds to me like there are several things happening, and that you've already identified them (he's fearful of women, and he's hormonal and prefers your husband). Male green wings are pretty formidable, so I'm glad mine is a hen!! She did go through a period though where she was quite a brat with my son (about 13 at the time). He wanted to interact with her, she saw his respect and hesitation, and decided to have fun with that. It took a while for the 2 of them to figure out how to interact. The thing that really worked was to start each interaction within the context of a routinized and much loved game - peek-a-boo. He'd cover and uncover his eyes while saying peek-a-boo in an excited voice, and she loved that. I had already showed her how much fun it was to have me cover her eyes, so he was able to build onto my own routine, by covering her eyes. And because she knew this game (and loved it), she allowed it. He could then move onto briefly petting her head. He still starts each interaction with a rousing game of peek-a-boo, but he can really do a lot with her now. You should probably wait until yours is through this really hormonal period, but after that, some approach similar to this could help. And don't do anything to further elicit his ire, if you can help it. Those memories will remain with him. If you approach his cage and threatens you, I'd calmly, silently and nonchalantly stand my ground (as long as he can't actually reach you), until he stopped reacting and then turn and walk away. The goal is to be able to approach without triggering a threatening response, and without giving him the impression that he's scared you off. And like others have said, don't let him bite you. Even if you don't react it's still reinforcing because he's enjoyed the release of aggression against you. Good luck with him - I think it takes a lot of resolve to live with an animal who displays a high degree of aggression. It's not for everyone... I'm not sure I could do it.

 

[Megamacawlove]

JLcribber than you so much for those links! The tstand is exactly what I need I think. I also loved what you wrote about listening to their body language. I wish I could understand B better he sometimes seems like he's desperate for me to engage with him, and then will bite. So I think I have a long way to go in understanding him yet. Good thing we have time! Haha.

Hankmacaw thank you for telling me Jasper and Hank's story! I think that I can see aspects of B in them, but you're right- there is no one type of greenwing personality. I am totally hearing what you are saying about needing to both make concessions. I truly think that is something I will be able to do for B. I really adore him, even when he is shooting me dagger eyes from my husband's lap he fascinates me. He definitely has his own personality! That must have been so difficult caring for ill birds at times!

Fia Baby I love the idea of a routine when greeting him! The more I read on here the more I see the importance of this. I'm also going to encourage my husband to try to work with him a little more on actual training instead of just affection and trying to rely on me for that. I think B would respond MUCH better to him. I didnt even think about it but you're right he does get a release from the aggression from the bite even if I dont react. Strangely his aggression bothers my husband more than me the target of the rage haha.

 

[JLcribber]

I wish I could understand B better he sometimes seems like he's desperate for me to engage with him, and then will bite. So I think I have a long way to go in understanding him yet. Good thing we have time! Haha.

This is why it's a journey (not a race). There's no shortcut for familiarity and understanding on both sides. B needs to learn as much about you as you need to learn about him. In time.

 

[Monica]

Not a macaw... or a large parrot by any means.... but... maybe worth skimming over?

An Experiment with Budgies | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
"Self-Tamed" Cockatiels | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum
Jayde Update | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum


And please look through these links, too! Start by going to the first link, #8 and watching the video.
Free Training Resources | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum



A sample of how training should be....

 

[Megamacawlove]

Monica, I definitely think that small or large we can learn a lot from any size bird behavior! I've been watching any macaw behavior videos I can find I didn't even think to look at smaller birds, but I think you're right- I should be checking those out too. But with Jayde, how you said that she sometimes likes scratches the most why she looks the most aggressive. Sometimes that is how B seems! Not so much with my husband, but with me. He seems to crave my attention sometimes (only when we are alone or when we are watching my husband who is occupied from a distance). That's why I struggle sometimes with understanding B's needs. He will run over to me, get super close, super puffed, talking and engaging... then just wait. Or tip his head down how he does when he wants a scratch from my husband, but feather's still fluffed. Not bite, until I get in close, and then it's just more mouthing I don't want to test given our history lately. Sometimes he will bring me toys to play with (paper, string, or foot toys) so I'll play with those because he won't bite me if I have those, and if he gets too rough with the play I'll simply end the game.

I love Barbara Heidenreich! I've watched the free (donation) long video she has on her website for rescue birds, and some of her youtube clips and am thinking about paying for some of her ones available online. Does you recommend I bite the bullet and do that?

Thank you so much!

 

[Monica]

The ones I have from Barbara Heidenreich I don't feel are long enough but the information is still valuable and sound.

And it does sound like you are already on the right track!


Jayde passed away a couple of years ago. She actually preferred older women, and one she liked at my local bird club sent her head over tail feathers for! She wanted nothing to do with me if she ended up spending time with "Auntie K"! But after yelling at me on the ride home for not allowing her to stay with "Auntie K", she was back to her normal self. Wasn't a fan of men, either... But I have rarely had anyone in my life willing to take the time to earn one of my bird's trusts enough to physically interact with them... so it's a little harder on the socialization part.

I highly suggest looking at Lara Joseph's blogs. She also had a bird that preferred her husband over her and he would attack her if her husband was around. Rocky is an M2 and before Lara got him, he was going to be euthanized. This week? He got to be filmed in a commercial! (should probably see if these are on her new blog...)

An Unexpected and Enjoyable Encounter | Lara Joseph
Question on Behavior & Training: My African Grey Consistently Bites His Nails and Flaps His Wings When He is Nervous | Lara Joseph

 

[Megamacawlove]

A bit of an update!

So I started using the T-stick by having my husband clicker train B to work with it, with me coaching in the room. Both did great with this, B actually seemed really comfortable with it, stepping up off tree stand, moving from tree stand to cage, tree stand to couch back, then tree stand to floor and not chasing me! we've ended the training session on a good note (not falling for that "just one more!") and are now having play time. Hubs and I are both sitting on the floor. B was very proud of himself, chattering away, loads of praise from dad and I. Dad's scratching as he walks over but not a ton. Mostly we are talking to him and seems calm, walking over for occasional pets. Walks over to me, as he does but seems very content. Hubby says "seems like he wants a pet" I fall for it! I go to pet and this is permitted! Enjoyed even, as his eyes close as he purrs? Its definitely not a growl as I have experienced these. He lets me pet him for a full minute maybe eyes opening and closing, turning his head for me to scratch different parts. He pulls away once, and "mouths" me. I don't pull away because its gentle, and I think maybe it's in enjoyment... but about 20 seconds later - he nails me. He gets me right in my thumb twice. Once quick and then a second time where he holds down when I try to pull back. It's a good one but no stitches or big bruising/anything near that so he's CLEARLY showing inhibition because it was just the tip he got in his mouth and he barely went in so it could have been BAD. I say "no bite", tell my husband to ignore the bird (it's a safe room) and we both walk out to wash my hand off.

-Obviously I am not upset with B in ANY WAY here. If anything I'm stumped! He's still displaying his normal behavior but has reduced it as well as the aggression. No more chasing me, he will now run across the couch back, but simply approach me with a low cocked neck and whisper "hi" and then run back to my husband.

I'm thinking maybe this just means that we are making good changes but just a too much too fast kind of thing? We have added cucumber water to his diet, and more showers, as well as the other changes I mentioned. I've also increased my positive in cage interactions (nuts dropped in his dish or having him reach through the bars to grab them and touch training through the bars). Any thoughts? Or maybe he was simply tired from the t-stick training and when I was petting him he was thinking I was my husband because he kept closing his eyes and when he realized it was me he bit? I haven't tried to pet him again since, but should I? Or should I let it be just in case to avoid pushing his boundaries?