Positive Thoughts for Jake Please

[lzver]

Thanks everyone. I'm taking a night off from both my husband and Jake. I need a breather. I am very upset and emotional tonight, but in no way am I giving up on Jake. My husband will have the choice to participate, but if he continues the way he is he will be removed from the decision making. He'll get over it ... I know him well enough to know that after he has time to think about it he'll come and apologize and be more open to talking about this. I just wish he'd do that from the beginning and save us both the stress. Right now I'm not worried about his feelings. I'm concerned about Jake and dealing with the behavioural issues.

I got a response from another trainer. Here is a link to her site: Dog Training in Guelph – Scratch and Sniff Canine Services

She forwarded a 10-page questionnaire that she likes to have filled out before the initial assessment. She talks about using positive reinforcement and the most effective and least invasive methods. Makes me feel a little bit better. I will work on filling out her questionnaire over the weekend and hopefully get a chance to talk with her.

 

[ThatDarnBird]

I like this trainers website much better.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I don't know this trainer, but I know or know of a lot of the trainers on her seminars list and she is a member of Truly Dog Friendly (which I am also a member of), in which you have to be committed to +R, you have to be sponsored by another trainer that you know that is already a member, etc. I feel much more comfortable about this trainer. LIMA means Least Invasive Minimally Aversive. I would go for it. Giving yourself some time to process this is a good idea. In the meantime, don't have Jake go out for walks right now, don't let the dog walker take him out. Let him decompress, let yourself decompress. I wish I lived up the street so I could come over and we could have a glass of wine and talk about what I went through with Bill and Jenny and how it is difficult at first to take it all in, but it gets easier and you will get through it. Sometimes we have expectations of what we want/hope our dogs will be and we do our best to help them become that, but they are someone else and that is okay too. There is a reason for that.

We have a 1 1/2 year old Dachshund pup. I had his great great grandmother, she died last year at 14 years old. She was one of the best dogs I have ever known. His father is one of my all time favorite dogs, top ranking field dog, I showed his mother. I picked this puppy when he was born. When we did the litter evaluation at 7 weeks, I knew that structurally he was not as good as his brother Slick, but still, I picked him for my husbands new field dog and my nose work dog. He started showing signs of being reactive at about 5 months old. He is reactive to other dogs and people. It wasn't what we were hoping for in terms of temperament. His brother went to a home and was returned a couple of months later. I finished his championship for his owner, my good friend very quickly with two back to back 5 point majors (a big deal. So, why did I pick this puppy instead of other one that I knew was the more structurally correct show dog and who at times I thought would have more intensity for the field? I just felt a connection with him and I chose him. Now, I realize that had this puppy gone to the family for those few months he would have been really bad right now. He is with us because he belongs here. He already has his ORT in K9 Nose Work and he went to a nose work fun trial last weekend and rocked it out after not searching for odor for two months. He will go to the first field trials of the season this weekend. I guess I am just telling you all this because we ended up with the dog that should be here. Jake will teach you to understand dogs and behavior in a way you never thought you would and it will suck sometimes but you will end up being grateful to him. And, it will all pay off.

Thanks everyone. I'm taking a night off from both my husband and Jake. I need a breather. I am very upset and emotional tonight, but in no way am I giving up on Jake. My husband will have the choice to participate, but if he continues the way he is he will be removed from the decision making. He'll get over it ... I know him well enough to know that after he has time to think about it he'll come and apologize and be more open to talking about this. I just wish he'd do that from the beginning and save us both the stress. Right now I'm not worried about his feelings. I'm concerned about Jake and dealing with the behavioural issues.

I got a response from another trainer. Here is a link to her site: Dog Training in Guelph – Scratch and Sniff Canine Services

She forwarded a 10-page questionnaire that she likes to have filled out before the initial assessment. She talks about using positive reinforcement and the most effective and least invasive methods. Makes me feel a little bit better. I will work on filling out her questionnaire over the weekend and hopefully get a chance to talk with her.

 

[ThatDarnBird]

Sometimes we have expectations of what we want/hope our dogs will be and we do our best to help them become that, but they are someone else and that is okay too. There is a reason for that.

Jake will teach you to understand dogs and behavior in a way you never thought you would and it will suck sometimes but you will end up being grateful to him. And, it will all pay off.

Vicki, these are words that I find very comforting and the sentiment is something that I am just now beginnng to understand fully. It is so hard to let go of your expectations. I'm finding that as I let go of my expectations I'm able to appreciate sally much more and see the progress we have made. Maybe it's not the progress I wanted us to make but it's the progress we are capable of right now. It helps to know that's ok.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

As time goes on, you will find that as you let the expectations go, the dog will improve. This has happened with my own dogs and client dogs. Expectations = pressure, even if we try not to. When I told Bill, I would not ask him to compete or go to classes or be the type of dog he wasn't, he got better because then he was REALLY allowed to set the pace and have his limitations respected.

Vicki, these are words that I find very comforting and the sentiment is something that I am just now beginnng to understand fully. It is so hard to let go of your expectations. I'm finding that as I let go of my expectations I'm able to appreciate sally much more and see the progress we have made. Maybe it's not the progress I wanted us to make but it's the progress we are capable of right now. It helps to know that's ok.

 

[kcbee]

 

[lzver]

Thanks Vicki and thanks everyone else. I hope this new trainer I've made contact with is the right one. I'll fill out her questionnaire and hopefully get a chance to talk with her this weekend. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[waterfaller1]

Wishing you the best.

 

[lzver]

I just want to add that I'm not sure what I would have done without the avenue yesterday. I had a bit of a melt down yesterday and it definitely helped to have some friends here to talk it through with. I'm not sure what this weekend brings for me and my husband. If he continues to be so hard headed and stubborn about this, it will continue to be a contenious issue for us. I don't want to do this alone, but I will if I have to.

I feel awful that the bite happened, but we are lucky it was only our dog walker. After speaking with her last night, she is fine and there are no hard feelings. It is not the first time it has happened nor will it likely be the last. We did agree that Jake likely doesn't need the mid-day visits anymore, so starting this week they won't be coming into our home on a daily basis anymore. Jake is quite territorial of the house and the front yard and we discussed that might have been the issue too. We do have some boarding booked with her coming up ... starting with next weekend. We have left it up to them and they will let us know this weekend if they will honor those bookings. If they don't want to take him, I will be disappointed but I will understand. It will be hard to find a replacement place to board Jake. I don't like those places where they are placed in Kennel's all day and you have to pay for every extra little thing. It worked well with them because it was in a home environment.

I will have one final thing to say to my husband today and it will sound harsh, but I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't become reality. If Jake had bit someone else or does it again, I would expect it would be reported. All I can think is Jake being empounded and having to spend his life muzzled when outside our house. Or even worse euthanized. He is such a sweet boy and I honestly believe what happened on Thursday was fear or some other reaction like frustration redirected into a bite.

 

[Greycloud]

Laura, I am sorry yesterday was such a rough day for you. I hope this new trainer is a positive in both you and Jake's life. Be strong and I will keep you and Jake in my prayers.

 

[Welshanne]

Laura so sorry this is happening to you and Jake, but hang on in there and do what you have to to get it back under control again.
We all have the glitches to overcome with our pets after all they are live creatures and have minds of their own and feelings also!
With showing Jake all the love and kindness he has had up to now to overcome so many problems in the past you will win through I just know it so good luck.
No more melt downs though, you have to stay calm and strong for both your sakes! Once you have your husband on your side again and knowing what is what it will work out. Good luck.

 

[lzver]

My husband and I had a calm conversation about everything this morning. We talked about what he wants to do and I explained to him in a calm way why I didn't think those were the best methods. So we have both agreed to speak with the dog behaviourist. No committment yet until we both feel good about the situation.

We also came to the realization that we likely picked the wrong dog walkers. They are a young couple that don't have a lot of experience and when I asked her questions yesterday she was adamant she didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't blaming her, I was trying to understand the environment at the time of the incident but she perceived I was blaming her. We will not leave Jake in their care again.

 

[Saemma]

Good to hear that you had a good talk with your husband. Hopefully moving forward, things will trend towards the optimistic side.
Thank you for sharing the ups and downs of your experience.

I admit that I don't know much about dogs and especially not german sheperds. After reading many of the threads on here it would make sense that this type of breed would certainly need an experienced/trained dog walker who understands the unique temperament and tendencies of this breed of dog. My best friend is the dispatcher for one of the police stations around here. The only time I've ever seen german sheperds around here is when they are on duty as police dogs. I've seen them behave in a very disciplined manner and controlled manner and I've also seen when they are off duty and having alot of rowdy fun. They are definitely ALOT of dog. Those limited observations tells me alot about these dogs and what types of owners they do best with.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

That is awesome, perfect. That is a good way to proceed. As far as the dog walker goes, I completely agree with you. Actually, I recommend that Jake NOT have a dog walker at all, but be walked by you guys. He is not comfortable and being out with someone other than you or your husband will likely increase his anxiety. I am glad that things are better this morning

My husband and I had a calm conversation about everything this morning. We talked about what he wants to do and I explained to him in a calm way why I didn't think those were the best methods. So we have both agreed to speak with the dog behaviourist. No committment yet until we both feel good about the situation.

We also came to the realization that we likely picked the wrong dog walkers. They are a young couple that don't have a lot of experience and when I asked her questions yesterday she was adamant she didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't blaming her, I was trying to understand the environment at the time of the incident but she perceived I was blaming her. We will not leave Jake in their care again.

 

[HollyT]

I've been following your threads about Jake for a while. Great reads. My husband has experience with dogs but I don't have as much. I've researched and read a lot though. Animal behavior study is just something I enjoy. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences.

I work for a pet supply manufacturer. We have dogs in the office all the time. And just as many opinions and theories on dog behavior and training. It's a little frustrating, as I have become engulfed in positive reinforcement methods and learning more about newer theories on dog behavior etc., while a few people at work are of the pack leader mentality. I don't usually chime in as much because we don't have a dog at the moment. But when I do have information to offer It gets people thinking.

Anyway I just wanted to offer my support in your mission with Jake. Thanks again for sharing.

Vicki? Could I PM you? I was hoping you could offer some more resources for me to read up on?

 

[Welshanne]

THere is so much in the genes also of the breed of dog. I have discovered since living with Max there is a huge difference in the temprament of the dog and a lot of difference between a long haired and short coated variety of German Shepherd dog. The long haired German Shepherd was bred for the domestic market and had a lot of the aggession bred out of them. The short haired variety had it left in for the sole purpose of having them for guard dogs and police dogs mainly. There is a definate difference in the two varieties and interesing to know.
Hope it is all soon worked out with your Jake and know that we are thinking of you all.

 

[ThatDarnBird]

My husband and I had a calm conversation about everything this morning. We talked about what he wants to do and I explained to him in a calm way why I didn't think those were the best methods. So we have both agreed to speak with the dog behaviourist. No committment yet until we both feel good about the situation.

We also came to the realization that we likely picked the wrong dog walkers. They are a young couple that don't have a lot of experience and when I asked her questions yesterday she was adamant she didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't blaming her, I was trying to understand the environment at the time of the incident but she perceived I was blaming her. We will not leave Jake in their care again.

I'm glad you guys were able to discuss it rationally. Husbands are programmed to solve problems and I think something like this is often harder on them. He as his own expectations and disappointment in Jake to deal with, things that he didn't see as a problem as a kid are a problem now, he's being told "no" on what worked for him before, you are upset and he can't fix it and the problem isn't easy to resolve. It's hard on anybody to give up old ways in favor of new. Nobody wants to think that they had been doing something wrong. Family rifts happen because of it. I have Monty Roberts book The Man Who Listens To Horses and you can clearly see the estrangement that happened between him and his father over the different beliefs in training methods.

Adults are quick to say that kids now face much different challenges that when they themselves were kids. The same can be said for dogs. It is not the same world as when your husband was a child with his dogs. Dog breeds have been bred for different traits, the family lifestyle has changed and there are many, many more distractions. Problems that weren't problems then are problems now, problems that didn't exist then exist now. Training methods have to change too. It doesn't mean that what he did with his dogs then caused harm, it just means training has to evolve like everything else.

 

[ncGreyBirdLady]

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Sure you can

I've been following your threads about Jake for a while. Great reads. My husband has experience with dogs but I don't have as much. I've researched and read a lot though. Animal behavior study is just something I enjoy. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences.

I work for a pet supply manufacturer. We have dogs in the office all the time. And just as many opinions and theories on dog behavior and training. It's a little frustrating, as I have become engulfed in positive reinforcement methods and learning more about newer theories on dog behavior etc., while a few people at work are of the pack leader mentality. I don't usually chime in as much because we don't have a dog at the moment. But when I do have information to offer It gets people thinking.

Anyway I just wanted to offer my support in your mission with Jake. Thanks again for sharing.

Vicki? Could I PM you? I was hoping you could offer some more resources for me to read up on?

 

[lzver]

Just wanted to come back and update that we've had a better weekend with Jake. We have an consultation with a dog behaviourist booked for December 1st that we feel good about the methods she uses. Until then we will keep Jake in the house and in the back yard to avoid potential issues.

We did talk with the dog walker on Friday evening and I was disappointed in that discussion. I tried to ask a lot of questions to try and help us figure out what triggered the response from Jake, but she wasn't helpful at all. She just kept saying she didn't do anything different there wasn't anyone else around. Needless to say we don't trust them anymore so we will no longer be using their services.

We got Jake some new toys to help with mental stimulation today so we can work on physical and mental stimulation.