Positive Thoughts for Jake Please

[crystaljam]

I would definitely do your research and hold off on seeing someone for at least a few days until you are thinking on a less-emotional level - right now you're on a bit of a "high" from the rough news that Jake bit his walker. You want to have a comfortable feeling about who Jake's trainer is going to be.

(edited in) - Also ensure he works based on positive reinforcement. We stopped agility after two classes as the teacher belittled both Gideon (who was excited to see his big sister and was in a big field outside - to Gideon this meant playtime in the grass with Mzuki) and us - he wasn't ever going to be a trained dog, and was a bad dog. We felt so deflated, we quit the class (along with at least 4 other dogs) and never went back into agility.

One session will allow for an assessment, but it may take several sessions before you and your husband are trained to train Jake. It might only take one though - he might be super amazing! Phone calls and emails are great though - it helps you get through rough patches and learning curves.

Husband was like yours, and was hesitant about bringing Fynn back to classes after his failure at puppy class (he would lose focus after 5 minutes and sleep...yay). It took the bad Vet incident in order for my Christmas gift from Mother in law last year (private lessons for Fynn) to be cashed in because he realized Fynn was worse off than he wanted to believe.

Sometimes the humans have to hit rock bottom along with their pups before help is sought.

We went to 6 sessions with Fynn - we were amazed he stayed focused enough for that long (30-45 minute sessions), but each session we added onto what we had learnt the week or two previously.

I know you'll make a well-educated and best choices you can for Jake and your family

 

[southernbirds]

You are not alone in caring and worrying about a beloved pet. If you find a good trainer that is great. If you have to change than you will. Ask a lot of questions. I would even call other Vets offices to see who they. recommend. Just ask as many questions as you can. I feel this will be a good outcome for Jake!!!

 

[Ankou]

Just heard back from the vet. Nothing really showed up in his blood work to alert to anything. In general, he is a healthy dog. No thyroid or other hormonal issues.

So, finding a behavioural consultant we are comfortable with is the most important thing right now. I did speak to one of the phone a short while ago and based on some of the warnings I've received he didn't set off any alarm bells. He recommends a 2 - 3 hour private appointment in our home so he can observe Jake and us in the environment where he has the most problems. He was very clear that we need to address the behavioural issues first before considering any obedience class. He charges $150/hr for the private consults and he leaves us with a detailed plan on how to resolve the issues we are having and provides email and phone follow-up's at no charge. For those that have worked with behavioural consultants, should it be a red flag that he says very few people need a second consultation? Some dogs/owners do require a second but he's never required a third. Is that because he's full of it and what he suggests doesn't work and people don't bother going back or is this common?

I literally feel like crying. I know we could have prevented most of this. I know we had to focus on his health issues first and foremost, but now we have a monster on our hands. I'm going to have to have a serious talk with my husband tonight and he's not going to like what I have to say. He is the worst offender in this house. I try to create some structure for Jake but as soon as he comes home all hell brakes loose and he just lets him get away with everything. He needs to see that WE are the ones that have made mistakes and continue to make them ... this is not Jake's fault. Right now I feel like a complete failure as a dog owner.

Jake is not a monster. He is so far from a monster dog. Cujo is a monster, Jake is a puppy who needs to learn some manners. You didn't "make" him be anything either, don't blame yourself. Dealing with his health issues you have already been through more and done more than many owners would. It's very possible he's had a nervous personality for a while too, and it's just revealing itself now that he is finally feeling well.

Jake is a good boy who needs more help and guidance with very loving parents who are working hard for his health and happiness, and nothing else.
You are doing what you can, and that's great. I hope your husband is willing to get on board because as you already know this is something that you can't do alone.

I hope his behavior improves soon.

 

[lzver]

Jake is not a monster. He is so far from a monster dog. Cujo is a monster, Jake is a puppy who needs to learn some manners. You didn't "make" him be anything either, don't blame yourself. Dealing with his health issues you have already been through more and done more than many owners would. It's very possible he's had a nervous personality for a while too, and it's just revealing itself now that he is finally feeling well.

Jake is a good boy who needs more help and guidance with very loving parents who are working hard for his health and happiness, and nothing else.
You are doing what you can, and that's great. I hope your husband is willing to get on board because as you already know this is something that you can't do alone.

I hope his behavior improves soon.

Thanks Sondra Your post made me start crying all over again

I took a break from the computer for a while and spent some time with Jake and I felt better after giving him some hugs and kisses. He is so much calmer when I'm the only one home. Not to say he doesn't get into things, but he listens to me more consistently now. I'm not sure if it's my energy or what it is. If I could bottle it and give it to my husband I would. He is a good boy who has had some mis-direction from us.

 

[Danita]

I wasn't sure as you never ever once complained about him
I really feel for you, the road ahead of you isn't butterflies and bouncing, playful puppies it was a hard pill for me to swallow and it took me a long time to finally swallow it.
My lightbulb moment was when Izzy lunged at an 8 mos old baby that pointed at her

I'm sure you know the answer Danita Yes, he pulls alot when walking on leash. It is to the point where he is too big and strong that I can't walk him anymore.

 

[lzver]

I took some time to do more research on the one behaviourist I spoke to today. I received confirmation from his website that he does not use aggressive methods in training and does not believe in the use of ecollars, chockers, etc.

This company is run by a retired couple and the guy I spoke with primarily focuses on private consultations. They do obedience, agility and other classes, but he focuses on the private training. His experience is with Belgian Shepherds and he has worked with lots of German Shepherd's. And he takes on a lot of cases with severe aggression because he believes every day deserves a chance.

When I spoke with him he reminded me that GSD's are working dogs and taking him on walks and throwing the ball in the park may be great physical activities, it is important that they have mental stimulation. He will work with us to resolve the behavioural issues we are having and make recommendations for mental activities we can do with Jake. After speaking with him again, he doesn't believe Jake's case is severe. He believes we need some direction on how to show Jake that we are the pack leaders and that will come a long way. He needs to be 100% focused on us as opposed to the things around him.

I've read the testimonials and the articles. I've read some reviews on independent websites. He clearly loves dogs and has dedicated his life to helping owners and their dogs. I'm not saying I've made a decision, but he has already been very responsive and very open to talking to me.

I got an email back from another behaviourist that I emailed and I'm not impressed. I understand that she may be busy, but she can't even make a committment on when she can call us to discuss Jake's issues. I understand that we aren't going to find someone to start working with us this weekend, but we need help now - not a month or two from now.

 

[lzver]

I wasn't sure as you never ever once complained about him
I really feel for you, the road ahead of you isn't butterflies and bouncing, playful puppies it was a hard pill for me to swallow and it took me a long time to finally swallow it.
My lightbulb moment was when Izzy lunged at an 8 mos old baby that pointed at her

My lightbulb was already dimly lit before yesterday's incident, but today's it's as bright as a spotlight!

I've had my emotional breakdown today and gotten a lot of the emotion out. I need to get my husband to swallow that bitter pill now.

 

[crystaljam]

I grew up with my dad as a dog trainer, went to classes with him all the time, obedience trials, the whole shebang. BUT I did not grow up BEING a trainer, or take the accredited courses which make a positive dog trainer. I knew I wasn't a dog trainer, Husband was the one I had to convince to get the proper training.

When we finally realized we couldn't deal with Fynn's issues on our own and needed an outside source, it was SO reassuring when we first met up with his trainer and made positive steps that first day.

If the behaviouralist comes to your house for training, even if you Husband is just THERE, it should be an eye opener to him to, and allow you to take some positive steps with Jake.

 

[Danita]

When I spoke with him he reminded me that GSD's are working dogs and taking him on walks and throwing the ball in the park may be great physical activities, it is important that they have mental stimulation.

That is super important to remember! My gals would be happy to train all day, and learn new things, that is what they were bred for, they get frustrated when they can't.

 

[kcbee]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Unfortunately, this type of behavior is fairly common in pure bred GSD. I'm so sorry he's started showing this behavior, but at least he's still young and that should help.

I hope you can find a good behaviorist and get this taken care of - and I'm glad you talked to your husband. If these methods are going to work, and stick, everyone has to be on board.



CoCo is half pure bred GSD and the vet said that's likely where her skittish behavior came from. Not the lab! haha But when she was younger, she was never aggressive, but was very skittish and shy. We had to work on it a lot, and now she is the friendliest dog you'll meet!

P.S. from your other post, mental stimulation for GSD is super, super important! They are incredibly intelligent dogs and need to stay busy.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

After speaking with him again, he doesn't believe Jake's case is severe. He believes we need some direction on how to show Jake that we are the pack leaders and that will come a long way. He needs to be 100% focused on us as opposed to the things around him.

I.

I'm glad you felt good about it but there are a few red flags here already. First, if he mentions anything about "pack leaders", he is not a science based dog trainer. When trainers talk about "pack leaders", it means that they believe in "pack theory" and "dominance theory" training models, which basically means that dogs do things in order to try and get control, be the boss, etc. Dogs are actually NOT pack animals. Wild dogs do not live in packs. A pack is a family, not a group of unrelated individuals. So, trainers who still talk about "pack leadership" have not done much new learning or research into what we know TODAY about dogs and how they live and how they learn.

Also, it is extremely unethical for a trainer to tell you, over the phone, having never met or observed your dog that he is "not severe". Jake needs to learn to be comfortable and relaxed in different situations and around different triggers, "focusing on you" is not going to necessarily teach him that.

Anyway, sorry to be a downer, but I would continue to look. Loving dogs isn't enough, years of experience isn't enough unless they have been doing the right thing all that time. Good trainers are 100% invested and committed to continued education, learning and skill development. After 25 years of training, I still attend classes with other trainers, attend lectures, seminars and workshops, pursue certifications and meet with other trainers regularly. I do mentor younger trainers too, but I am also looking for more information, especially current information.

Just be careful. There is no rush. It is better to find the right trainer than the most available one.

 

[lzver]

Vicki, thank-you for your honest feedback. I will take your advice and keep looking.

I wish we all lived in a world where we were close together and you could help us.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

You are welcome to send me any websites that you would like me to look over. And, I network with trainers all over the world, so if you want me to put it out there on Facebook and ask for trainers in your area, I could give you that information. There are a lot of trainers who I know through Facebook or seeing what they write on blogs or in books, and who I may have met through different conferences, etc. I am happy to do that if you would like me to. Just let me know

Vicki, thank-you for your honest feedback. I will take your advice and keep looking.

I wish we all lived in a world where we were close together and you could help us.

 

[lzver]

Thanks Vicki, I have a list of 5 trainers in the area that I can contact. I'll keep your offer in mind though if I don't have luck with the trainers I've located.

 

[lzver]

I need to step away from this for a few days. I just had another huge fight with my husband about all of this. He came home with a cholker collar. I don't know how to get him to understand what I'm talking about. I feel so hurt right now. He just told me I've done nothing for Jake since we've gotten him. I guess all the research, vet visits, worrying, tears, time spent with him means nothing. I feel defeated and worthless. The only thing that is stopping me from going away for a few days is the birds and Jake.

 

[Saemma]

Sorry Laura. I'm wondering if there is any literature that Vicki can provide to you from a website or from her own words that you can give to him to read quietly and on his own time. Some people have a hard time accepting even constructive criticism. Maybe left to mull over it in his own way and his own time he'll admit to himself that you may be right? Just thoughts. I obviously don't know your husband, yet I feel hurt for you that are going through this struggle with him.. your husband. I read your threads about Jake since before he came home and I feel alot of empathy for what you've been going through with Jake.
Sorry.

 

[Bridgette]

 

[ThatDarnBird]

I'm sorry Laura. It's a highly emotional issue for you both.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

If you need me to send something or even write him and you an email explaining fear based behaviors and responses, I would be happy to do that. Right now, the most important things he needs to know are 1) the damage was minimal, which is excellent. He has some bite inhibition. If an adolescent GSD wants to hurt you with his teeth, he will. Jake didn't. It was a warning. I would almost bet that there were subtle signals/warnings that he gave that were not seen by the dog walker. It could have been as subtle as lip licking, looking away, hard eyes, leaning back, change in breathing, 2) Jakes issues are fear based and you cannot use punishment/compulsion/force. The reason is that you cannot force someone not to be afraid. If Jake is punished for his behavior without dealing with the emotional state that is fueling that behavior, you will create a pressure cooker and at some point, it will blow and it won't be pretty. Jake HAS to feel safe, a choke collar or force or pressure of any kind will not make him feel safe and will throw him into conflict (fearful/defensive). He could very well have an "I'm going to get you before you get me" thing going on which is very common. 3) You and your husband didn't make Jake this way. This is Jake. He is a combination of his genetics, early learning history, reinforcement history, environment and so much more. 4) Jake is not DOING this, it is HAPPENING TO HIM. There is not one species in the world that would choose to be defensive/fearful on purpose. It is not worth anything. It is unhealthy and expensive on the body. HE WOULD STOP IT IF HE COULD, BUT HE CAN'T. This isn't fun or pleasant for Jake. 5) There is help for this. It won't be easy peasy, but it is manageable and modifiable.

I need to step away from this for a few days. I just had another huge fight with my husband about all of this. He came home with a cholker collar. I don't know how to get him to understand what I'm talking about. I feel so hurt right now. He just told me I've done nothing for Jake since we've gotten him. I guess all the research, vet visits, worrying, tears, time spent with him means nothing. I feel defeated and worthless. The only thing that is stopping me from going away for a few days is the birds and Jake.

 

[crystaljam]

I hope your husband just had to go to the man cave to mull it over. He has to know in his heart that training will help Jake be the best dog he can be.