"parrots on a pelleted diet live twice as long...

[JLcribber]

Yeah, I'm firmly in the pellets camp. Both my birbs are on a pelleted diet. I'm just talking about that specific claim: I wonder how empirical of a claim it is since it's been making rounds for years.

It's true enough to anyone with real experience who took the time to investigate nutrition.

You can live your whole life on McDonalds. You will probably die young with the insides of an 80 year old but you will live.

 

[Linearis]

I heard pellets aren't super good for parrotlets though... but I'm guessing if I mix like 50/50 with seeds it should be okay? Unless it has to be less like 30/70... (I still would feed her veggies though)

 

[Mizzely]

I heard pellets aren't super good for parrotlets though... but I'm guessing if I mix like 50/50 with seeds it should be okay? Unless it has to be less like 30/70... (I still would feed her veggies though)

Here is some discussions between vets about this that someone wrote down
https://www.talkparrotlets.com/showthread.php?t=1029

Dr. Scott Echols was one of the vets that had tied parrotlet mutations and pellets together as an issue. In his group on Facebook, he actually mentions this:
Nutrition For Pets Public Group | Facebook

"I feel like I am at fault with the kidney problems and pellet diets in color mutation birds issue as I published this years ago. To be clear, we only recognized this problem (which has NEVER been further defined) when SOME color variety parrots were fed 90% or greater of their diet as pellets.

I commonly recommend that parrotlets be fed 50% or less pellets and the remaining being grains, veggies and a small amount of fruits. Don't forget to get these birds outside (in a safe environment) for some natural sunshine therapy.

As I mentioned earlier, I published information (which was preliminary) about predominately pellet based diets causing problems in color mutation parrots. I have never found the problem in parrots that eat less than 75% pellets. So to be safe, I say don't feed more than 50% pellets in color variety (small) parrots."

 

[Known Space]

It's true enough to anyone with real experience who took the time to investigate nutrition.

You can live your whole life on McDonalds. You will probably die young with the insides of an 80 year old but you will live.

Maybe, but it is a very specific claim that people share in regards to parrot nutrition. And I would rather not make it if there aren't any studies to back the claim in specific up. This isn't a thread on the efficacy of pellets. But it is one on the accuracy and origins of the specific claim.

I heard pellets aren't super good for parrotlets though... but I'm guessing if I mix like 50/50 with seeds it should be okay? Unless it has to be less like 30/70... (I still would feed her veggies though)

There are no studies. Generally people are just inclined to find reasons to not feed pellets to their birds so these claims spread like wildfire. The vet in question that made the claim has said it isn't proven yet.

 

[Mizzely]

Maybe, but it is a very specific claim that people share in regards to parrot nutrition. And I would rather not make it if there aren't any studies to back the claim in specific up. This isn't a thread on the efficacy of pellets. But it is one on the accuracy and origins of the specific claim.

I think it is basically like the whole thing of "a week to you is a day to a parrot". It's just a way to put things into perspective. Saying that parrots fed a pelleted diet live twice as long may be hyperbole also but it is more accurate than it isn't.

 

[Linearis]

Here is some discussions between vets about this that someone wrote down


Dr. Scott Echols was one of the vets that had tied parrotlet mutations and pellets together as an issue. In his group on Facebook, he actually mentions this:
Nutrition For Pets Public Group | Facebook

"I feel like I am at fault with the kidney problems and pellet diets in color mutation birds issue as I published this years ago. To be clear, we only recognized this problem (which has NEVER been further defined) when SOME color variety parrots were fed 90% or greater of their diet as pellets.

I commonly recommend that parrotlets be fed 50% or less pellets and the remaining being grains, veggies and a small amount of fruits. Don't forget to get these birds outside (in a safe environment) for some natural sunshine therapy.

As I mentioned earlier, I published information (which was preliminary) about predominately pellet based diets causing problems in color mutation parrots. I have never found the problem in parrots that eat less than 75% pellets. So to be safe, I say don't feed more than 50% pellets in color variety (small) parrots."

Thanks! That's perfect. I want her to have a very healthy diet. She actually eats the current pellets I have even though they're a bit big... I want to get smaller ones soon. It's too bad she seems to hate fruit. At least she'll eat carrots, kale, cauliflower, broccoli and romaine though... although she doesn't eat very much. One time I gave her an apple and she just kept ripping off pieces and dropping them on floor, as if it was a toy. x.x

 

[Mizzely]

Thanks! That's perfect. I want her to have a very healthy diet. She actually eats the current pellets I have even though they're a bit big... I want to get smaller ones soon. It's too bad she seems to hate fruit. At least she'll eat carrots, kale, cauliflower, broccoli and romaine though... although she doesn't eat very much. One time I gave her an apple and she just kept ripping off pieces and dropping them on floor, as if it was a toy. x.x

Veggies are more important anyways I feed very little fruit myself. Some birds prefer the bigger pellets so it comes down to preference - usually theirs, not yours

 

[Linearis]

She breaks them in half before eating them though, so it makes me think a bit smaller would be better. She doesn't eat her pellets very often, usually she'll eat around them but I have seen her eating pellets which gives me hope at least.

 

[Known Space]

I think it is basically like the whole thing of "a week to you is a day to a parrot". It's just a way to put things into perspective. Saying that parrots fed a pelleted diet live twice as long may be hyperbole also but it is more accurate than it isn't.

Untested but absolute claims will be used against pellets by opponents. So I would rather not make them. If there is no literature that backs it up, I would much rather make claims that are backed up. There are plenty of anti-pellet conspiracy theorists who can use that to convince people not to feed pellets.

 

[Mizzely]

Untested but absolute claims will be used against pellets by opponents. So I would rather not make them. If there is no literature that backs it up, I would much rather make claims that are backed up. There are plenty of anti-pellet conspiracy theorists who can use that to convince people not to feed pellets.

I've honestly never heard this claim in 7 years of parrot ownership and pellet promoting.

 

[finchly]

Untested but absolute claims will be used against pellets by opponents. So I would rather not make them. If there is no literature that backs it up, I would much rather make claims that are backed up. There are plenty of anti-pellet conspiracy theorists who can use that to convince people not to feed pellets.

I am with you. Hyperbole isn’t fact.

Having researched and written articles annd a book on caring for pet birds (including their diet) I have only seen 3 studies that were somewhat scientific. Most of our information is taken from poultry studies and “bent’ to fit parrots.

I wonder why at this point there haven’t been ANY scientists interested in advancing parrot nutrition? I don’t mean those associated with the pellet manufacturers. I mean independent tests. They will study chickens, after all....

On the flip side, I have gone with more fresh foods, and work hard to ensure there a a variety. My Vet lectured me and said to stick with 65% pellets. :/ Being vegan myself, and trying to stay away from processed foods, this boggles the mind.

 

[Known Space]

I am with you. Hyperbole isn’t fact.

Having researched and written articles annd a book on caring for pet birds (including their diet) I have only seen 3 studies that were somewhat scientific. Most of our information is taken from poultry studies and “bent’ to fit parrots.

I wonder why at this point there haven’t been ANY scientists interested in advancing parrot nutrition? I don’t mean those associated with the pellet manufacturers. I mean independent tests. They will study chickens, after all....

Yeah despite some parrot species being some of the most popular pets in the world, the people owning them are completely disinterested in feeding them well. There's no academic interest because there's no interest from owners. Sad.

On the flip side, I have gone with more fresh foods, and work hard to ensure there a a variety. My Vet lectured me and said to stick with 65% pellets. :/ Being vegan myself, and trying to stay away from processed foods, this boggles the mind.

"Processed" is kind of meaningless term without context or clarification. The problem with "processed foods" in human diets is more practical than theoretical. It's not that processing in and of itself is bad: it's that most processing we actually employ in practice tends to rob our foods off micronutrients. However, the processing used in the production of pellets actually enriches them with micronutrients. So we need to be outcome-based in our thinking.

In our diets, avoiding processed foods is more a fail-safe guideline to ensure a healthy diet for the layman. Many nutritionists stick by an 80/20 ratio, where eating 80% unprocessed versus 20% processed (for indulgence and enjoyment) is fine to maintain great health. But whey protein powder is a processed food, and it has many great benefits in terms of cognition and even helping prevent Alzheimer's.

 

[clawnz]

Well, from one who thinks Pellets are not anywhere near as great as so many would like to claim.

Yes it was Roudybush. And why the write up may of gone, is because they got called out on the fact that the processed food (pellets) were not the same formula for the 27yrs.

As for Scot Echolls he is in the pay of the pellet manufactures. So why would you want to believe him?

Where is, just one independent review showing how fantastic these manufactured so called foods are?

And 100% for sure birds feed pellets or a high percentage may well have health issues.

Yes proven point Budgies and Cockatiels do not do that well on pellets, over time.

Breeding: Well here is the biggy.
When pellets become the in thing, so many (Mainly in America) switched to them.
Breeding dropped. Switched out to real foods and the breeding got back to normal.

And to all those happy to feed their loved ones with pellets. I think you need to look at just one example of how much water they absorb.
Then think about this in the gut.

Yes you can keep birds for many years healthy on real foods. Nobody should be looking at the easy way out.
Get a bird do the research and learn to feed fresh foods.
29yr and 32yrs for two Cockatiels I knew of. Both on a high percentage diet of seeds. AND NO PELLETS.

So many like to say seeds are poor diets.
How about the lack of quality fresh seeds. Old stale dried up. And lack of variety. being the real issue?
Variety: How good is this in any of the commercial mixes.
Do you add other seeds to that? To improve the variety! I do.
I also buy seed mix that I can sprout, it is that good. Does yours?
Same as with my sprouts. I always have 20+ types.
Show me one commercial one that comes anywhere near that!
Even you pellet pushers, should be able to understand any company is in this for the money.
It's called profit.
Example: I can buy a soak & sprout mix (Good Quality at that) for $3.50nz per kg.
I cannot sort my mix out for under $8.00nz per kg.

Birds are opportunistic feeders by nature. Dame they have to be. The word is seasonal.
It has a huge amount to do with what they eat and when they do things like Breed.
Yet you want to feed the same old dried up biscuit.

just to round this up.
Someone please explain if Harrison's is organic. how did they get organic certification for the synthetic supplements in the pellets?

 

[Gazimon]

I thought the discussion is about the difference in diets with "general store-bought bag of seeds" versus "general store-bought bag of pellets"? [ Let's be real here. It has to be available commercially without breaking the general birdkeeper's back, schedule and pocket. ]

Not just "the same old dried up biscuit" versus "a relatively extravagant buffet of fresh seeds, huge variety of organic vegetables and sprouts" [which are obviously not the usual off-the-shelf seed diet].

Like I can't even find pellets in some of the mega pet stores here [its either just plain seed with 80% millet, or at the most kaytee pellets with dyes that can make your bird poop rainbows], let alone sprouts. And importing live seed sprouts is an issue with customs too. So you have access to 20+ sprouts. Lucky for you. Not everyone has the same opportunities, budget and freedom of access. I have been to a few bird-specialty stores. Not one bag of sprouts.

 

[finchly]

Well, from one who thinks Pellets are not anywhere near as great as so many would like to claim.

Yes it was Roudybush. And why the write up may of gone, is because they got called out on the fact that the processed food (pellets) were not the same formula for the 27yrs.

As for Scot Echolls he is in the pay of the pellet manufactures. So why would you want to believe him?

Where is, just one independent review showing how fantastic these manufactured so called foods are?

And 100% for sure birds feed pellets or a high percentage may well have health issues.

Yes proven point Budgies and Cockatiels do not do that well on pellets, over time.

Breeding: Well here is the biggy.
When pellets become the in thing, so many (Mainly in America) switched to them.
Breeding dropped. Switched out to real foods and the breeding got back to normal.

And to all those happy to feed their loved ones with pellets. I think you need to look at just one example of how much water they absorb.
Then think about this in the gut.

Yes you can keep birds for many years healthy on real foods. Nobody should be looking at the easy way out.
Get a bird do the research and learn to feed fresh foods.
29yr and 32yrs for two Cockatiels I knew of. Both on a high percentage diet of seeds. AND NO PELLETS.

So many like to say seeds are poor diets.
How about the lack of quality fresh seeds. Old stale dried up. And lack of variety. being the real issue?
Variety: How good is this in any of the commercial mixes.
Do you add other seeds to that? To improve the variety! I do.
I also buy seed mix that I can sprout, it is that good. Does yours?
Same as with my sprouts. I always have 20+ types.
Show me one commercial one that comes anywhere near that!
Even you pellet pushers, should be able to understand any company is in this for the money.
It's called profit.
Example: I can buy a soak & sprout mix (Good Quality at that) for $3.50nz per kg.
I cannot sort my mix out for under $8.00nz per kg.

Birds are opportunistic feeders by nature. Dame they have to be. The word is seasonal.
It has a huge amount to do with what they eat and when they do things like Breed.
Yet you want to feed the same old dried up biscuit.

just to round this up.
Someone please explain if Harrison's is organic. how did they get organic certification for the synthetic supplements in the pellets?

Hi Clawnz, this is the first time I've seen you discuss your own feeding regimen, at least that I can recall. Good point that some seed mixes are better/fresher than others.

As far as Harrison's, the synthetic supplements don't fall under the same category as the produce parts. "Organic" means grown without the use of pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, genetically modified organisms, or ionizing radiation, and animals that don't take antibiotics or growth hormone.

I thought the discussion is about the difference in diets with "general store-bought bag of seeds" versus "general store-bought bag of pellets"? [ Let's be real here. It has to be available commercially without breaking the general birdkeeper's back, schedule and pocket. ]

Not just "the same old dried up biscuit" versus "a relatively extravagant buffet of fresh seeds, huge variety of organic vegetables and sprouts" [which are obviously not the usual off-the-shelf seed diet].

Like I can't even find pellets in some of the mega pet stores here [its either just plain seed with 80% millet, or at the most kaytee pellets with dyes that can make your bird poop rainbows], let alone sprouts. And importing live seed sprouts is an issue with customs too. So you have access to 20+ sprouts. Lucky for you. Not everyone has the same opportunities, budget and freedom of access. I have been to a few bird-specialty stores. Not one bag of sprouts.

Nope there are no sprouts in the pet stores, but they are at health food stores here. Do you find them in the grocery or a health food market?

 

[SandraK]

Nope there are no sprouts in the pet stores, but they are at health food stores here. Do you find them in the grocery or a health food market?

I used to find my wheatgrass in the produce section of my supermarket - now they've moved it to "freshly squeezed OJ" which also has weird organic/healthy juices for people.

 

[clawnz]

I thought the discussion is about the difference in diets with "general store-bought bag of seeds" versus "general store-bought bag of pellets"? [ Let's be real here. It has to be available commercially without breaking the general birdkeeper's back, schedule and pocket. ]

"WELL maybe you should not be trying to keep any birds if you cannot afford or be bothered to feed well!"

Not just "the same old dried up biscuit" versus "a relatively extravagant buffet of fresh seeds, huge variety of organic vegetables and sprouts" [which are obviously not the usual off-the-shelf seed diet].

Like I can't even find pellets in some of the mega pet stores here [its either just plain seed with 80% millet, or at the most kaytee pellets with dyes that can make your bird poop rainbows], let alone sprouts. And importing live seed sprouts is an issue with customs too.

"Lucky me! No lucky birds. I am willing to shop around and find these real foods." It's called making the effort.

Not everyone has the same opportunities, budget and freedom of access. I have been to a few bird-specialty stores. Not one bag of sprouts.

"You do not buy sprouts. You germinate them yourself. And you would have to live in a strange place if you cannot buy good quality fresh seeds to sprout."

 

[clawnz]

Hi Clawnz, this is the first time I've seen you discuss your own feeding regimen, at least that I can recall. Good point that some seed mixes are better/fresher than others.

"When I started out keeping birds. I went shopping for seeds. I was disgusted with what I found on the shelves.
And people were buying these for their birds. It was not hard to figure out there are issues with in the pet trade.
Then I found the importer of seeds.
The scary thing was, the next best option was super market. Then the pet shops.
At least here, most has not had supplements sprayed all over them.
Correct that seeds coming in for sprouting should not be treated. Yet funny thing is that some of these will and do sprout.
Take Mung beans. I have never had any that fail to sprout.
For my seeds. both to mix in with the seed mix and the sprouts, I buy from a number of places.

As far as Harrison's, the synthetic supplements don't fall under the same category as the produce parts. "Organic" means grown without the use of pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, genetically modified organisms, or ionizing radiation, and animals that don't take antibiotics or growth hormone.

Thank you. Does it not say on the label. 100% organic?
When it should say organic except the synthetic additive we put in it.



Nope there are no sprouts in the pet stores, but they are at health food stores here. Do you find them in the grocery or a health food market?

"No you need to sprout your own seeds to get fresh live sprouts. Shop bought are certainly not the best option. And have normally been grown on too long to be nutritionally the best.
Refer to my sprouting thread Sprouting easy or complicated."

 

[MahaSarah]

I do think pellets are great but they shouldn't be 100% of the diet. Nothing should make 100% of a parrot diet anyway.

I do think that people who have the smaller species of birds, like parakeets, cockatiels, lovebirds, etc should be very wary of the pellets. They have such a high number of protein in them that is way too much for the bodies of the little birds.

I also think diet will depend mainly on the species of birds. Amazon Parrots, for instance, should only have seeds as a treat because they can get obese very quick and also are likely to develop a vitamin A deficiency. Lovebirds, on the other hand, burn through more fat so they should have a few seeds in their daily diet.

I feed my Amazon parrot 40% pellets, 40% veggies, 10% fruit & 10% grains (as grains are full of carbs and that just get turned into fat). I give her sunflower seeds as a training treat only.

I feed my Lovebirds 35% pellets, 35% veggies, 10% fruit, 10% grains & 10% seeds.

But I do believe birds should be feed pellets and veggies daily and that should be the bulk of a parrots diet. (Minus Macaws who I know need a higher fat diet. Also minus the nectar diet of lorikeets, and the specialized diets of Ekkies.)

Sometimes I alternate days I feed my birds chop and pellets. One day all chop and some seeds, one day all pellets and some seeds, next day all chop, etc, etc. (Echo doesn't get any seeds, only as a treat)

 

[finchly]

I do think pellets are great but they shouldn't be 100% of the diet. Nothing should make 100% of a parrot diet anyway.

I do think that people who have the smaller species of birds, like parakeets, cockatiels, lovebirds, etc should be very wary of the pellets. They have such a high number of protein in them that is way too much for the bodies of the little birds.

I also think diet will depend mainly on the species of birds. Amazon Parrots, for instance, should only have seeds as a treat because they can get obese very quick and also are likely to develop a vitamin A deficiency. Lovebirds, on the other hand, burn through more fat so they should have a few seeds in their daily diet.

I feed my Amazon parrot 40% pellets, 40% veggies, 10% fruit & 10% grains (as grains are full of carbs and that just get turned into fat). I give her sunflower seeds as a training treat only.

I feed my Lovebirds 35% pellets, 35% veggies, 10% fruit, 10% grains & 10% seeds.

But I do believe birds should be feed pellets and veggies daily and that should be the bulk of a parrots diet. (Minus Macaws who I know need a higher fat diet. Also minus the nectar diet of lorikeets, and the specialized diets of Ekkies.)

Sometimes I alternate days I feed my birds chop and pellets. One day all chop and some seeds, one day all pellets and some seeds, next day all chop, etc, etc. (Echo doesn't get any seeds, only as a treat)

I like that you have species-specific diets. That can be difficult to maintain!

Totally agree that nothing should make 100% of a parrot’s diet.