Old toys - safe? sanitizing methods?

[MommyBird]

I put it on my wish list a few weeks ago and I feel like I would have seen the big red paragraph at that time .
So I agree it is something very recent

 

[WillowQ]

Well, I’m just thinking of the posters showing restrictions on usps shipping. I know some liquids require special handling; and I know that some items aren’t shipped during freezing weather. Since this is an aqueous solution it would expand upon freezing and maybe burst the containers. And it’s recently begun to freeze in the continental US.

I can see if I can find out.

You could check if you can get it by some other shipping method, like what’s used for different lab chemicals. Maybe you’ve already done that.

 

[Mizzely]

Well, I’m just thinking of the posters showing restrictions on usps shipping. I know some liquids require special handling; and I know that some items aren’t shipped during freezing weather. Since this is an aqueous solution it would expand upon freezing and maybe burst the containers. And it’s recently begun to freeze in the continental US.

I can see if I can find out.

You could check if you can get it by some other shipping method, like what’s used for different lab chemicals. Maybe you’ve already done that.

Unless something has changed recently, I'm not sure that is it. I am in Michigan and liquids freeze 6 months of the year I have never been denied buying it any time of year. Plus, people were able to buy from the seller's website directly, so it's definitely an issue with their Amazon listing.

It would also have to say something about shipping restrictions in the listing.

 

[WillowQ]

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/sds/sial/phr1681

Here’s the msds for the active ingredient. It’s an irritant and hazardous to aquatic life. Maybe you’re ordering it in a larger amount than before and therefore shipping is restricted? These are my thoughts as a former lab chemical safety manager. It’s not something you want to spill during shipping.

I’ve ordered things on Amazon that I wasn’t allowed to receive by mail because they were considered hazardous. That made me mad because I paid for them and they were withheld. In those cases, these were seeds that were apparently coming from another country which might have carried pathogens.

This is my best thought.

P.s. here’s msds for the f10 product itself:

http://www.f10products.co.uk/admin_uploads/files/2017/SDS%20F10SC%20Veterinary%20Disinfectant%20UK%20rev%20Oct%2016.pdf

It’s similar to the msds for the active ingredient.

 

[MommyBird]

Unless something has changed recently, I'm not sure that is it. I am in Michigan and liquids freeze 6 months of the year I have never been denied buying it any time of year. Plus, people were able to buy from the seller's website directly, so it's definitely an issue with their Amazon listing.

It would also have to say something about shipping restrictions in the listing.

Yes I bought it from the seller's website directly today and it has already been shipped
I've always bought 200 ml.
Once it wasn't available in the uSA and I bought it from Australia

 

[Shezbug]

Gosh @MommyBird did the shipping end up crazy when you got it sent from here?
I have only ever seen it unavailable online here in a few stores, that was when everyone was buying too much toilet paper, hand sanitizer and other stuff when covid first hit but other than that it seems to always be in-stock somewhere in one size or another.

 

[MommyBird]

Gosh @MommyBird did the shipping end up crazy when you got it sent from here?
I have only ever seen it unavailable online here in a few stores, that was when everyone was buying too much toilet paper, hand sanitizer and other stuff when covid first hit but other than that it seems to always be in-stock somewhere in one size or another.

Actually I was surprised that it went so smoothly and arrived much quicker than I expected. I think I had it in about a week.
There was some issue for awhile and none of the USA outlets could sell it in the USA even though some of them had it sitting in their warehouses.
I just can't remember the specifics now.
I was a little worried it would get confiscated but happy when it made it here.

 

[WillowQ]

Why do you think it couldn’t be sold in the US?

 

[Mizzely]

Why do you think it couldn’t be sold in the US?

There was an FDA or EPA labeling snafu I believe at one point.

 

[WillowQ]

F10 is a quaternary ammonium compound, or “quat”. It’s quite safe when diluted per instructions and dried. But release of the undiluted F10 compound is dangerous as it’s “an irritant and a hazard to aquatic life. (HAZARDOUS)” Therefore, shipping is restricted.

The back label on the bottle actually reads: “DANGER: hazard to humans and domestic animals. Corrosive. Causes irreversible eye damage. … Do not contaminate water, food, or feed. …pesticide wastes are acutely hazardous.”

“QACs [quaternary ammonium compounds] are generally considered safe when products that contain them are used as directed. However, they can cause significant toxicity when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed in large amounts.Jul 15, 2023”

National Center for Biotechnology Information › NB...
Quaternary Ammonium Compound Toxicity - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

——————
You might be able to order a disinfectant like F10 directly from the manufacturer, when it can be properly packaged and labeled. But ordering through a secondary or tertiary shipper is different. It would not be safe to repackage a hazardous material. That’s why you can order F10 from the manufacturer but not from Amazon.

There was no listing snafu. It’s not safe to ship hazardous liquid materials when they will freeze-thaw and very possibly rupture their container.
——————

Everyone on the forum has different life experiences, and we all deserve respect. Some of us have experiences that give us specialized knowledge, like handling of hazardous chemicals, or like hand raising certain species of parrot. Presumably that is why we come to these forums: to get new information from other informed people.

It’s foolish to dismiss information that’s different from what you assume, just because you want to feel right. It’s also pretty unkind.

 

[Mizzely]

I'm not arguing with you to be unkind or because I need to be right. From my point of view, that's you right now. It's hard to read intention on the Internet. I can assure you what you accuse me of is not mine, and I wouldn't assume it's yours and call you out on a public forum about it because that would be rude.

I don't know everything. I'll be the first to admit it. Things I do know:

The seller people bought from this time is not the manufacturer or distributor, they are a third party. It is manufactured in South Africa. The current US distributor is Pure Clean Bio, that I linked before. Now could it have changed? Sure, it has before. Currently their website still claims they are.

In 2019/2020, it became very hard to get ahold of F10 in the US. At the time, the US Distributor was Reptile Basics. I emailed them asking what it going on in January 2020. Here is the email I received back:





From here I'm done because it doesn't matter. We found the F10 they needed in stock somewhere, and hopefully these new round of supply issues get resolved soon, whatever the reasoning is for it, whether it be a simple shipping issue,or labeling, or manufacturing, or importing related.

Take care.

 

[WillowQ]

I linked the msds, but that was not good enough. Good grief. If you ask a question and someone can provide a decent answer, maybe don’t be mean about it. I mean, I looked up the handling instructions and figured out the issue. Not sure why that is difficult, unless you think your disinfectant MUST BE as harmless as water. It CANT be, with that composition.

 

[Zara]

F10 is a quaternary ammonium compound, or “quat”. It’s quite safe when diluted per instructions and dried. But release of the undiluted F10 compound is dangerous as it’s “an irritant and a hazard to aquatic life. (HAZARDOUS)” Therefore, shipping is restricted.

The back label on the bottle actually reads: “DANGER: hazard to humans and domestic animals. Corrosive. Causes irreversible eye damage. … Do not contaminate water, food, or feed. …pesticide wastes are acutely hazardous.”

“QACs [quaternary ammonium compounds] are generally considered safe when products that contain them are used as directed. However, they can cause significant toxicity when ingested, inhaled, or absorbed in large amounts.Jul 15, 2023”

Bleach is also incredibly toxic and dangerous. We still clean our stuff with it and buy it online with ease.
Folks have made bombs with bleach.

Glad OP got some F10 ordered. Hope it turns up soon

 

[WillowQ]

Bleach is also hard to ship. And I’ve used F10. I have no issue with F10; but this is why it can’t be shipped, as people were wondering.

Why is learning something new a problem? There’s no mysterious snafu, but an EPA regulatory issue with a chemical that would be hazardous to spill.

 

[corvidares]

I wash and clean it and then bake it at 200 F in my oven for a couple hours. Kind of like a substitute autoclave to kill germs; not quite as good but pretty effective for most things. This works great for washing and then drying nice natural wood perches when someone (like my late, ancient Quaker) gets an infection.

That's actually what I've always done for my wooden perches (which are all branches I attached screws and washers to) and plan to do now! It's an old trick I learned from my hermit crab days, haha. Works if wood is too awkward a shape to boil.

 

[MommyBird]

@corvidares , @Mizzely , @expressmailtome , @WillowQ , @Shezbug
I sent a message via Amazon to the shipper. It is the same place that just delivered it to me USPS from a direct order .
Their reply:

 

[expressmailtome]

Thank you very much, @MommyBird ! I have no idea what restrictions they could be that suddenly appeared, but I do appreciate your sharing this information with us!

 

[Mizzely]

@corvidares , @Mizzely , @expressmailtome , @WillowQ , @Shezbug
I sent a message via Amazon to the shipper. It is the same place that just delivered it to me USPS from a direct order .
Their reply:
View attachment 436730

I also sent an email to Pure Clean Bio to see what is going on with the distribution.

 

[Teckechick]

All F10SC is back in stock and shipping on Amazon again. At least in my state!

 

[Zara]

All F10SC is back in stock and shipping on Amazon again. At least in my state!

Good to know