Jardine diet trouble HELP??

[Nikomania]

Yeast infections are a bear to eradicate. She will need to be on meds for awhile in order to clear it up. Follow up cultures are a must. A bird can acquire a yeast infection simply by snacking on yeast made breads, believe it or not.
So, yes, a yeast and bacterial infection can absolutely lead to inflammation.

 

[iamwhoiam]

So the yeast and bacterial infections have both cleared up? Was she prescribed an anti-fungal in addition to the Flagyl since Flagyl is used to treat bacterial infections and not yeast infections, as far as I know.
As for her diet, maybe they just don't want her gut to get irritated because it might be sensitive right now. Might be a good idea to recheck with the vet. I would think you could consider starting out with a limited diet and then begin to add other foods back and see how she does.

 

[Ashnic]

@iamwhoiam mycostatin betamox and flagyl were the 3 they put her on.
As for the diet, as he thinks she has the same guy as an eccie, he wanted to start her on the cooked apple rice and pumpkin. And small seeds with some sunflower now. Eventually I'd be able to give her raw fruits and veg, small seeds, and soaked legumes and the rice apple pumpkin as main meals morning and night. He told me I'm never allowed to give her pellets, nuts and no large seeds and sunflower once she is older . So same as eccie. High fibre low fat diet.
The issue is that she doesn't like the Cooked apple pumpkin rice .and won't eat any seeds at this stage other than sunflowers cause she is still very young.
As I was weaning her onto pellets, fruit veg, nuts, mashes etc. I basically said she will die because all she is eating is sunflower and she doesn't want much formula. He's just like you'll have to crop feed and persevere as she is like an eccie you can never feed her to dried fruit nuts pellets etc. Which by the sounds of most poi or Jardine owners do exactly the diet I was planning.
I'm at this stuck point that I don't want to irritate her gut, but if I don't give her something she will eat I'll loose her.
I know pellets cause some eccies a lot of problems, I just didn't think Jardines were the same

 

[iamwhoiam]

Mycostatin is the antifungal. Here's an article from an avian and exotic veterinary practice regarding a Jardine and illness due to poor diet. Scroll down and you will see the diet that was recommended for him. Still wonder why the vet feels the Jardine's diet should be the same as the Eclectus. It's weird. The Jardine is a Poicephalus and not an Eclectus.

 

[Ashnic]

@Nikomania I guess I'm just seriously doubting that feeding her nuts and pellets and dried fruit, on top of the formula and fruit veg was what gave her the gut inflammation that lead to the infection of yeast and bacteria. I would think it would be more likely that it was the other way round

 

[Ashnic]

@iamwhoiam that was her results.
Candida is the yeast as you would know. If it means anymore to you. Bit vague

 

[Shezbug]

I really think you may benefit from a call and chat to another AV. Many will happily give you some time and information via phone or email.
I hope you can find out why the vet has told you to limit or remove certain foods. I also hope everything comes good for your little one

 

[Nikomania]

My Jardine's is thriving on a diet that's not based upon my ekki's diet. Ekkis need a low protein diet, so very few nuts. My Jardine's has nuts and does well. So, I, too, am confused by the 'ekki diet'.

I, too think that bouncing this off another vet, hopefully an avian vet, will be in your baby's best interest. Second opinions don't hurt!.

 

[SherLar]

One thing to remember... Our vets are awesome but we don't have to agree with them on everything.

I find that true in every aspect of my life. Vet, friend, whatever. Learn what you can, see if it makes sense in your situation, if not, keep looking for answers.


Isn't tumeric supposed to be a miracle spice for inflammation? I don't know about birds or it's efficacy. Thoughts?

Do you have a small food processor? I have a super cheap one that hold about a cup of food. Probably $10. Do people on here think that if she put almonds in there and pureed it, or other nuts that you guys think healthy etc, that it could help? I won't even guess on what to do, just softer food, pureed etc, may encourage eating?

you could consider starting out with a limited diet and then begin to add other foods back and see how she does.

wow, yes, could be a food allergy. Brilliant. Not sure how you would easily tell if the inflammation returned though?


Wish I had the right answer.
sherri

 

[SherLar]

.but can she just get a gut infection just because? Even if it wasn't a hygiene issue?

Yes. Everyone's gut is filled with bacteria. Mostly good bacteria and that keeps the bad bacteria and yeast at a low. However, there are times, under stress or changes, that the bad bacterias, yeasts, and viruses get a bit ahead and take over. Then the game is to figure out how to decrease the bad and still allow the good to grow. It is a balancing act. Normally our bodies do a fantastic job doing that. So yes, you may have done nothing wrong. So don't go beating yourself up. Seriously. Also, did the vet give you anything to help the food pass quicker since he thought it was because it was not passing fast enough and allowing the bad to grow? Like reglan/metoclopramide? It is a prescription and I am sure other people on here will have a better idea what may help. All I have are small ideas.
sherri

 

[MauiWendy]

If I am off base here, please correct me. Isn’t sugar one of the main components that candida uses to thrive and reproduce, which causes inflammation in the body? If you are a human, a low sugar, low starch diet starves the candida. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be different in birds or any animal. I wouldn’t feed rice or anything starchy or cooked. Your Jardine needs nutrients, I would stay away from fruit and seeds right now. And feed mainly raw. What about quinoa? I would also get a second opinion. Pellets are supposed to be used to supplement their diet, not to be their main source of nutrition. Same goes for seeds. I feed seeds (goldenfeast) but as a supplement to his fresh raw diet.

 

[Ashnic]

Yes. Everyone's gut is filled with bacteria. Mostly good bacteria and that keeps the bad bacteria and yeast at a low. However, there are times, under stress or changes, that the bad bacterias, yeasts, and viruses get a bit ahead and take over. Then the game is to figure out how to decrease the bad and still allow the good to grow. It is a balancing act. Normally our bodies do a fantastic job doing that. So yes, you may have done nothing wrong. So don't go beating yourself up. Seriously. Also, did the vet give you anything to help the food pass quicker since he thought it was because it was not passing fast enough and allowing the bad to grow? Like reglan/metoclopramide? It is a prescription and I am sure other people on here will have a better idea what may help. All I have are small ideas.
sherri

No he didnt, but that's a good thing to keep in mind if it's ever to happen again. Fingers crossed. She's doing well ATM. Still very under weight. But happy at least

If I am off base here, please correct me. Isn’t sugar one of the main components that candida uses to thrive and reproduce, which causes inflammation in the body? If you are a human, a low sugar, low starch diet starves the candida. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be different in birds or any animal. I wouldn’t feed rice or anything starchy or cooked. Your Jardine needs nutrients, I would stay away from fruit and seeds right now. And feed mainly raw. What about quinoa? I would also get a second opinion. Pellets are supposed to be used to supplement their diet, not to be their main source of nutrition. Same goes for seeds. I feed seeds (goldenfeast) but as a supplement to his fresh raw diet.

Also a good point. I'm finding she is preferring veges over fruit at the moment anyway. She really doesn't have much interest which I suppose is good. Cause yes I agree. I would assume it would be very similar for birds

 

[SherLar]

Good to hear!! And using your common sense is wonderful. Read the input, think it over, see if it fits for your situation. I am not a big fad person and look for more science based stuff, but I was raised in science. Many people use vinegar to heal everything and feel gluten is the evil of the world. I fall between all the lines. There are times and places for most things. If I was worried about the sugar content in the crop, I think I would use the diluted ACV. If I was worried about the normal flora of the gut, I would request probiotics to help replenish and re create the balance. If the gut is not emptying, I would request reglan or similar product. Weight loss, I would find the high calorie stuff, whatever my bird would eat, and make everything else work towards that, meds or whatever it needed. Then slowly change things over and seeing what is and what is not working.

There have been 20 yrs of studies done that dogs have been over vaccinated and has caused all kinds of problems. Especially for smaller dogs. Almost all vets are still wanting to vaccinate yearly and really push for flea and tick control even when you do not live in an area that has that. My dogs have never had fleas and we don't have mosquitoes. Seriously. Our city vet really pushes for all the stuff. Our country vet does not. That is my long story to tell you to use your head, gather as much info from people and other sources, and see what makes sense and if you can make it work in your world.

Wish I could get our birds to eat a veggie. They think veggies are evil. French fries don't count!
sherri

 

[iamwhoiam]

Good that your Jardine's is doing well now. Most of my birds prefer veggies over fruit for the most part. Some will eat banana chips (not fresh banana), dried papaya and apple but that's about it.

There have been 20 yrs of studies done that dogs have been over vaccinated and has caused all kinds of problems. Especially for smaller dogs. Almost all vets are still wanting to vaccinate yearly and really push for flea and tick control even when you do not live in an area that has that. My dogs have never had fleas and we don't have mosquitoes. Seriously. Our city vet really pushes for all the stuff. Our country vet does not. That is my long story to tell you to use your head, gather as much info from people and other sources, and see what makes sense and if you can make it work in your world.
sherri

I stopped doing vaccinations except for rabies with my oldest dog a few years ago. He gets titered instead. Will probably also start having my other dogs titered. Never had fleas with my dogs until this past week. Can't believe it. I did apply Frontline plus but vet wants me to try NexGard and other choice is Bravecto. After researching I am going to wait on doing the oral flea/tick "stuff" and let the Frontline do its thing plus vacuum a lot.

 

[Nikomania]

While we're on the subject of discussing fleas, in our area the fleas have become immune to Frontline and Advantage products. I swear by Activyl! If you need to treat your dog, this is, hands down, the best and most effective one. I ONLY treat if I see evidence of fleas.

 

[iamwhoiam]

While we're on the subject of discussing fleas, in our area the fleas have become immune to Frontline and Advantage products. I swear by Activyl! If you need to treat your dog, this is, hands down, the best and most effective one. I ONLY treat if I see evidence of fleas.

Thanks. I'll check into that. I did see evidence of fleas on one dog and the vet saw one on another dog as well as flea droppings. He knows I have birds (He's the dogs' vet and doesn't see birds.) and had me check with the birds' vet to see what I could put down on the carpet. Her recommendation: vacuum, vacuum, and vacuum again. I washed the blankets they use and also the covers to their beds. I actually would like to rip up the carpet and put down a wood or laminate floor.

 

[fashionfobie]

We had fleas once. We were in a rental house. Washed everything and vacuum and vacuumed and then even a third time vacuumed. It worked. The dogs must have got the fleas at the beach. Since we treated the dogs the fleas couldn't continue their cycle. The carpet was vacuumed to remove eggs. It is surprisingly effective

I stopped treating my dogs for fleas unless there is a sign of infestation because the treatments are pretty noxious. I used to do it regularly following the package instruction. I can't remember if it was revolution or frontline.. but one application on the shoulder area and my sweet Paige got an open wound at the application sight. Not from scratching... Just from the chemical... She was prone to sensitive skin. Even though she used it for several months without issue.. she developed a sensitivity.

After this I questioned if it was more harm then good.

I did continue to treat for heart worm, since that little parasite is so nasty. We used the oral. I stopped flea.

 

[MauiWendy]

No he didnt, but that's a good thing to keep in mind if it's ever to happen again. Fingers crossed. She's doing well ATM. Still very under weight. But happy at least

Also a good point. I'm finding she is preferring veges over fruit at the moment anyway. She really doesn't have much interest which I suppose is good. Cause yes I agree. I would assume it would be very similar for birds

Fruit definitely has its purpose, but should not be fed in a lot of quantity, unless you have a specific species that require a lot of fruit in their diets. Veggies on the other hand, especially in pois, you will notice a big difference in their feathers, and their beaks. Feed lots of veggies, different varieties. I make a chop once a week, and I offer veggies first thing in the morning. Then he gets his other food. I also offer cut fruit (usually apples) along with veggies on a skewer hanging from his cage for enrichment. Glad to hear your jardine is doing better. There are good seeds like pine nut and walnuts you can give him as a treat to help put on some weight.

 

[Rain Bow]

Fruit definitely has its purpose, but should not be fed in a lot of quantity, unless you have a specific species that require a lot of fruit in their diets. Veggies on the other hand, especially in pois, you will notice a big difference in their feathers, and their beaks. Feed lots of veggies, different varieties. I make a chop once a week, and I offer veggies first thing in the morning. Then he gets his other food. I also offer cut fruit (usually apples) along with veggies on a skewer hanging from his cage for enrichment. Glad to hear your jardine is doing better. There are good seeds like pine nut and walnuts you can give him as a treat to help put on some weight.

I've gotten my 1st order of nuts from Nuts.com & they have great coupons & other things they email after you sign up w/ them. Buddy gets 1 nut a day per his vet. I'm not sure how much a Jardine is allowed tho. As long as I start the shell for him he's officially conquered a paper pecan as of tonight! First time other than starting it Mom didn't help @ all. We've been working on them over the last month. Walnuts are not Buddy's favorite but he'll have a nibble of one here & there.

Walnuts & pine nuts have so many good things in them for birds! I think like everything else variety is the spice of life!

There's some good info on nuts on this page but even they recommend to not be over indulgent

Which Nuts Are Safe For Parrots? List of Edible Nuts

I'm glad she's feeling a bit better too!

 

[iamwhoiam]

We had fleas once. We were in a rental house. Washed everything and vacuum and vacuumed and then even a third time vacuumed. It worked. The dogs must have got the fleas at the beach. Since we treated the dogs the fleas couldn't continue their cycle. The carpet was vacuumed to remove eggs. It is surprisingly effective

I stopped treating my dogs for fleas unless there is a sign of infestation because the treatments are pretty noxious. I used to do it regularly following the package instruction. I can't remember if it was revolution or frontline.. but one application on the shoulder area and my sweet Paige got an open wound at the application sight. Not from scratching... Just from the chemical... She was prone to sensitive skin. Even though she used it for several months without issue.. she developed a sensitivity.

After this I questioned if it was more harm then good.

I did continue to treat for heart worm, since that little parasite is so nasty. We used the oral. I stopped flea.

I vacuumed again today and will do it another time. I toss the bags after I vacuum even if they are not full and they are expensive Miele bags.