Jardine diet trouble HELP??

[Ashnic]

So on the process of weaning my baby picked up an infection, not uncommon.

The vet I saw took gut x-rays as he has never seen a jardine before ( he is an expert and lectures all over the world) etc and claims that Jardines have a similar gut to an eccie.
So diet should include fruit, veg, high fibre, little to no fat. Some seed
Pellets are a big no, so are nuts and sunflower seeds, due to eccies low fat diet

HELP I was weaning her into fruit veg and pellets, fruit and nut, some small seeds. Standard healthy parrot diet. He claims that the reason she got sick, is that since her gut is the same as an eccie, I was feeding her the wrong diet, leading to gut infection

What do you feed your Jardines? Is this guy way off the mark with an eccie diet? She refuses to eat, and is loosing condition as what she is used to eating is all a no no now.
He said I can't feed her pellets, no nuts, no dried fruit. Only cooked pumpkin, apple and rice, which she hated and refuses to eat

 

[sunnysmom]

I am afraid I don't know anything about Jardines' diets but she needs to eat. In my opinion, which I'm obviously not a vet, she needs to eat to build up her strength if she was sick. So I would let her eat what ever she will eat and then work on adding better food. And I can't imagine any bird should eat just pumpkin, apple and rice.

@BirdGuy21 ? @EkkieLu ? @karen256 ? @Mizzely ?

 

[SherLar]

I am sure you have done all the research on their dietary needs and risk areas of malnutrition. With each specie of birds having their own needs that has been established over many generations to fit their environment. Does it not coincide with what the vet says?

I don't know anything about these birds, but this article brought up this...

Jardine`s Fact Sheet

sherri

 

[Mizzely]

I've never heard that. My Jardine's was very sick when he came to me due to malnourishment. I've had him on almost a complete pellet diet since August as he was so sick that he needed as many vitamins as possible.

I know that they need more calcium, D3, and vitamin A than other species their size. I've been advised that an African Grey diet is more appropriate for them than anything by my vet. She is a Certified Avian Vet.

My bird would have literally died on a pumpkin, apple, and rice diet. That does not nearly cover all their dietary requirements.

They are a poicephalus, and have similar requirements to other birds in the family, none of which have ever been known as having a different digestive tract.

 

[sunnysmom]

Jardine's Parrot aka Red-headed Parrots | Beauty of Birds

 

[iamwhoiam]

I never read or heard that Jardine's needed a diet similar to Eclectus. They are Poicephalus parrots. My red-bellied babies (also Poicephalus) were weaned onto a quality seed mix, pellets, fruits and vegetables. If I had just fed my babies pumpkin, rice and apple they wouldn't have thrived, IMO.
I found this faq about Jardine's food requirements:
Jardine Food Requirements

 

[Ashnic]

Thanks guys, yeah she's only 12 weeks at the moment. And he advised formula apple rice pumpkin and small seeds only.

All she has eaten this week is the few sun flower seeds out of the mix, as I don't think she can manage the millet just yet and formula. I rang the vet today to tell them that and I asked if I could give her some almonds and a few pellets .
They said no pellets are awful and almonds are just pure fat and a waste of time .they advised just to give her more sunflower (isn't that just fat??) And use my other birds to show and encourage her to eat the small seed.
I can feed her a few millet off my finger, but she's more just crushing them then hulling and eating. She won't take much formula even tho she's hungry cause she's just at that age where she is almost done with being fed. They advised that I may even need to crop feed her twice daily until she starts to eat the rice/pumpkin/apple mix and small seed

Everything I've read has said exactly what you have said, or like the fact sheets. Fruit veg quality seed pellets nuts, not like an eccie diet. So maybe I'll have to put her back on it. She was just so sick before

 

[sunnysmom]

I have never heard of a vet saying not to give pellets. And I feed almonds to my bird. I think a lot of us here do. I'm sorry you're having such a tough time. I hope she'll be okay. I'm honestly just really confused as why the vet is giving this advice. Is it because your bird is a jardine or because he thinks there's a medical issue?

 

[iamwhoiam]

Did the vet do blood work and did he possibly see something on the blood work that would cause him to recommend the diet that he has recommended? Did he do any cultures? Based on what you wrote it seems that the vet thinks that your baby is sick because of the diet and not an infection, correct?

 

[Nikomania]

Are you able to syringe feed her the formula?

 

[Mizzely]

All I know is that my Jardine's was super sick - respiratory ailments, heart murmurs, weak grip, underweight etc - until he started eating pellets. He wheezed when he breathed, couldn't fly, fell off perches due to the malnourishment he endured.

He won't eat veggies, so on a diet of Zupreem pellets (so not even a "premium" pellet!), Nutriberries, and almonds, those symptoms are almost totally gone since August.

No one can convince me that pellets are bad for Jardine's as I have my own case study who is likely only alive because of pellets.

I would personally seek out a new vet.

 

[Mizzely]

Also almonds are full of great nutrition, including calcium, and have been linked to lower cholesterol and heart disease in humans.

Sunflower seeds are not all bad, they have a lot of good to them too, but almonds are arguably better.

 

[Ashnic]

@iamwhoiam he did cultures on her poop and did gut x-rays to show inflammation .he thinks the inflammation and irritation on her gut due to diet slowed her gut down and gave her the infection.

@Nikomania yes but she doesn't take much anymore cause she's at the age where she's not wanting to be fed much. She just growls and turns away when she has had what she wants

 

[Mizzely]

One thing to remember... Our vets are awesome but we don't have to agree with them on everything. My cat's vet wants her on all dry.... Even though all of the research shows wet is superior in basically every way and that's what she does better on.

If your gut and research both disagree with the vet it is okay.

Veterinary | Avian and Exotic Medicine | Manhattan

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...WMAB6BAgAEAE&usg=AOvVaw2AwLyfRVTCc3HtN-rMqKxJ

 

[fashionfobie]

No one can convince me that pellets are bad for Jardine's as I have my own case study who is likely only alive because of pellets.

First I will say that yes! Pellets do sound like the best diet for African parrot species. I am not contradicting this. I just want to caution using the word case study when it is a singular shared account. I have read several of your posts on your blog Shawna, I deeply respect the work you put into those. They are fantastic and well reasoned. I am only coming from a scientific approach. Case study shouldn't be used lightly since it references a study following a formal research method. Sending good vibes, I will continue to use your site as a go to guide on pellets. -It really is a fantastic post

 

[MauiWendy]

Sorry to hear about your Jardine. I don't know what to say about what your vet said and I am no expert by any means. But, my boy Keoki is a Red Bellied Parrot also a poicephalus like your Jardine. First and foremost he eats all raw fresh veggie chop, this includes: spinach, celery, jalapeno, cilantro, parsley, peppers, sweet potato, broccoli, and fresh corn (once a day). I do change it up now and then. I add to that in a separate dish, Basic Bird Nut-Free! - The Best Bird Food® BirD-elicious! Origins Wild - BirDelicious! Origins Wild Diet® (read the ingredients) I also like the one for the African Grays. Yes its expensive, but so worth it. He also gets a little TOPS pellets. Fruit is high in sugar, yes he gets a little each day but he chooses if he wants to eat it or not. His loves apples they hang in his cage on a ss skewer. I dont know about the Ekki claim about Jardines, but I do know that your bird is in the same family as mine, and I have never been told that poicephalus gut is close to a ekki's. Hope this helps.

 

[Nikomania]

Is it an inflammation or an infection? Is she on any medication, or only on a diet adjustment?
Frankly I think that she could have an infection that's turned into an inflammation. Just my healthcare brain turning on.
You mentioned she had an x-ray, but I didn't see if any bloodwork was done on her. I could have missed that.

 

[iamwhoiam]

Is she on any medication? What grew out on the culture?

 

[Mizzely]

First I will say that yes! Pellets do sound like the best diet for African parrot species. I am not contradicting this. I just want to caution using the word case study when it is a singular shared account. I have read several of your posts on your blog Shawna, I deeply respect the work you put into those. They are fantastic and well reasoned. I am only coming from a scientific approach. Case study shouldn't be used lightly since it references a study following a formal research method. Sending good vibes, I will continue to use your site as a go to guide on pellets. -It really is a fantastic post

I of course didn't mean an actual case study and I apologize for using the wrong terminology.

 

[Ashnic]

@Nikomania @iamwhoiam I haven't got the results with me. But they said there was a yeast type infection and also bacterial.
The x-ray showed the gut inflammation. He reckons it wasn't a hygiene issue .it was that the gut slowed down due to pellets and bad diet .which lead to the build up of bacteria and infection. No blood work done.

I was thinking the same thing that infection lead to inflammation .but can she just get a gut infection just because? Even if it wasn't a hygiene issue?
They put her on flagyl and two different types on antibiotics, results came back for a second culture and with a week of antibiotics she's all clear but they still say I can't feed her anything but what I mentioned before

@MauiWendy yeah I think most of the POIs can inter breed from what I have read .So I would say they would all be fairly similar. Those look great too. IllI have to see if they make them in Aus, I haven't heard of them before