HUGE Opportunity

[Ming-Ming]

I know i'm very new, but I need some advice. I've had a hugeeee opportunity come up.
So about me...

I'm 21 years old, finishing up my third year of university in english. I live about 45 minutes away from my breeder, so its not as simple as just coming to help her since I don't have a car. I love love love love birds. When I have to think of something i"d want to do for the rest of my life it would be to breed birds. I am training to be a journalist, but honestly, birds make me so happy... and I can't live without them.

So, I've had a huge opportunity come up!
So i've been home this weekend getting my wisdom teeth out. My breeder is getting old, about 64, and her partner just quit so she has A LOT of birds. So I was coming up every morning to help her food and clean the cages.

She has aa looooot of birds. About 9 + 28 +22 +13.... 133 pairs... about 9 boarders, 16 bird pets, 15 for sale, and 48 babies being hand fed for different amounts.

Anyways, she is starting to get tired and feels she is ready for retirement. she already said she wants to give me her BG macaw when the time comes (he loves me.. he's pretty much my boyfriend!) haha.

Anyways, she asked me today if I would be willing to buy the aviary off of her. I would pay for the price of the house and with all the birds. She said she is oaky with me downsizing, and honestly, if I could at this minute, I'd drop out of school and breed birds. And she knows that, which is why she brought it up.

And honestly! I don't know what to do! she said she is totally oaky with my downsizing, but I just wonder if its too soon to take on such a huge responsibility. She said i have about 10 years to decide, but I also don't want to take the full 10 years because I'd still like her to be spry enough to help me out until I get the hang out thing. I pretty much know my way around, but you never know!!!

I have the experience. I know how to feed, water, clean, hand-feed, clip wings and nails, etc.

I'm so torn!I've made a pro and con list and mostly its all the hard work in con, and all the love, passion and emotional benefits in the con! Haha!

I was considering maybe moving the birds nearer the city as I like living in Toronto and there might be a larger market. But the house is completely built to house birds. There are two large breeding rooms, and one small one which I'd probably turn into storage (since I wouldn't want more than what those two rooms could hold), a laundry room, and another storage area in the basement. There's a huge backyard with a pot-belly pig! (Which I don't know if I'd want... haha). Then she has a bedroom, kitchen, bathroom. A nursery for all the hand-fed babies, a huuugeee living room, and then a "show room" where she keeps all the birds for sale, and then a huge loft where she keeps her pets, which also has a flight. Oh! And there is a flight room. And all the bird rooms are equiped with sinks, and such. It's sooo perfect.
She also suggested if I wanted to try to make a profit, I could try to sell toys, and food, and cages... maybe not cages, but toys and food I could... and if i open it up online, it might be good since there doesn't seem to be a lot of bird stores in Canada..

Anyways, I have no idea!
what are you thoughts about running such a business??

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

I do not want to burst your bubble but have you considered the expenses of feeding the birds vet bills excetra

 

[GG.]

good point Cynthia

 

[Ming-Ming]

Yup totally!
The breeder said the birds often pay for themselves, but if I sell some of the breeders to downsize at least I'll have a pool of money. And since, and if I expect this, I can definitely start saving hardcore!

That is also why I as thinking of trying the toys and food thing. I mostly mix my own food - grow sprouts, mix with pellets, nuts, dried fruits, etc. So if i can expand it online it might get some recognition.

It definitely is ambitious of me, but once i put my mind to something, its done =)

 

[GG.]

will you have someone to help you with the day to day care of the birds?

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

I would ask for some book work on the business to get a feel for the real figures of expenses vs profit

 

[Birdiemarie]

Also be wise and research the dangers of selling food, toys where you have live birds. If any of your birds get a serious transferable disease anything you sell may be contaminated and can get other peoples birds sick. Be aware of all the risks involved in everything you plan to do.

 

[Bethany]

Well.. if you could get someone to help you work, and you have all the money, (which downsizing could help with), then you could take it on. Also consider the future, if business slows down too much, would you have time to make money elsewhere & take care of the birds?

 

[Birdlover]

I know there are great number of breeders getting out of the business (at least in the US). You should plan to be able to support the birds wether they produce or not (because sometimes they dont and sometimes they do and you are left with more birds that dont sell for various reasons, economy being one). Its not something to get into to make money because very few do. Look at it as a hobby and being able to support it as a hobby. And I have to say it - I am not anti-breeder but consider the birds you have, the popularity, demand and being able to locate suitable homes for them. Its not as easy as it seems. It is a LOT of work taking care of them and depending on the setup, a full-time job if you dont have help.

 

[Deejo]

Re: HUGE Opportunity- long reply

Hmmm, 64 doesn't seem so old. Does this breeder have a tough time selling birds lately? (there are MANY new breeders in Canada, I imagine competition is very stiff)
I hear of many US breeders are suffering and getting out of the pet trade/parrot breeding business altogether.
I also hate to burst your bubble...but
the timing of this, might be all wrong with the economy the way it is.
Every year, we see more and more Canadian breeders start up, with more and more chicks flooding the market.
Some of the birds never sell; the price goes lower and lower, and then the ads stop. What would you do with the babies that you can't sell?
I belive if you went into this, thinking you will make money, then you haven't done enough research or spoken to many breeders.
Down sizing sounds fine - except where will they go? have you been reading at Canada's largest bird for sale forum? Check it out, it's a Yahoo forum, no chatting allowed. It is strictly a sales advert group for breeders and buyers across Canada. (abird4sale)
Another thing to consider are the AR fanatics in Canada. On April 1st, B.C. laws go into effect regarding exotic pet ownership and/or non-native (to B.C.)animals.
The future of parrots in the pet trade is quite uncertain.
Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Oh my goodness! Do NOT worry about bursting bubbles! Or else I would have taken the aviary and never would have posted here! Haha!

I definitely want to go in here knowing allllll the risks. I'm not so concerned about my well being but my number one concern is making sure I make enough to support the birds! Number one!

My breeder friend is still planning on breeding. She is getting old though. She is still selling babies but is having a bit of a problem now... Since her former partner told her to put alllll the nestboxes up at once, offfering to help hand feed and never did! Grrrrr! So she spends a lot of time hand feeding the little ones!

She has a couple volunteers that come and help (like myself) and I have another bird crazy friend that wants to help. But of course I dint know how long she'll be around so getting a long term partner is a definite must!

Her main problem is her knees. She has trouble going up and down stairs, thus having difficulty getting to the breeders! She deserves more breaks! Especially with such a large establishment! But yeah, 10 years and she's done for sure!

Keep the comments coming. I want to know everything! I'm trying to approach this with a completely open mind to all possibilities! Then I can make a proper decison.

I also think I might spend a month there over the summer to see how it is really. I want to be fully prepared if I actually take this opportunity!

Thankssss for all the honesty! <3

 

[robin's my baby]

maybe spend a year or to erning mony (and saving) so maybe in a few years you will know if you are ready to take over or not good luck with what ever you do

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

I do not want to sound hard but you need to consider the age of the breeder pairs and how long they will produce eggs I know quit a few breeders and breed finches once so know some of the problems

 

[Ming-Ming]

Okay, so still brainstorming pros and cons. I appreciate all your input I really do! =D
My friend, also a huge bird lover, said she might considering partnering up for this. She is in school for animal psychology, so it might be interesting!

Anyways, we figure if we downsize to half the aviary, and since there are two of us, we can both take on the occasional parttime job. Her parents might also be interested in helping us out, and "partnering" up.

Of course, we haven't decided, and we won't do it until we are both done school and have spent a year saving up money, etc.

Now in response to the toy question. That is a GREAT point i never thought of!
Honestly, I'd like to do the bird toys for fun more than income, but having an extra income would be nice. I LOVE building toys for my fids, like jolly balls and such.

I know the birds in the aviary haven't been vet checked, but they have all been quarantined and if they did show signs of sickness were taken to a vet. This is a CLOSED aviary so no one is allowed in unless a volunteer or employee, and no strange birds are allowed in, obviously. To prevent disease.

Now I completely understand that I can't have birds around the toys, but is it okay if the toys were in another room NEAR the aviary? Like a few rooms over? And we always make sure we wash our hands, change our clothes, etc. when we go in? Is that enough or should we be more cautious?

Just curious.
What else...

Also what about cage sizes?
She keeps... linnies, lovebirds, budgies, parrotlets in these size cages...
http://www.kingscages.com/images-dyn/ProductImages/Large/604_Combo.jpg

She has ringnecks and alexandrines in these cages...
http://images-a.hayneedle.com/mgen/digimarc.ms?img=master:AEC021.jpg&h=368&w=368

And cockatiels, conures, and quakers in these...
http://www.birdcages.me/images/medium/12422C_MED.jpg

My friend and I weren't sure if these sizes are appropriate or not. We're thinking as we sell some breeders (since we want to downsize to at least half), that with the money we can slowly start upgrading cages, but if these are okay then thats fine.

Also, a lot of people mention interacting with breeders. All these breeders are meeaaannn. And we wanted to set up a flight for exercising, but the only way to get them out would be with a cloth or a net, and that seems way too stressful. How would one be able to do this?
Should we just set up a few smaller flights for the birds to "relax" for a few weeks, and then catch them and put them in their smaller cage? We don't want to mix up the breeders cause they might get nasty... but yeah. Not sure. Any ideas?

Please don't say anything about me being ignorant. I want to try to gather as much information as possible before I do this =D
I'm trying hard, and learning as much as I can, and being very wary about this decision both for myself and the birds.

I assure you, the well-being and health of the birds are #1 priority.

Also, would anyone be able to post pictures of their breeding set up? Or is that not allowed? A basic drawing also works... haha.

Thanks so much! =D

 

[Jan]

Ok, I've been breeding birds for 23 years and during most of that time I've only have had like 50 birds total plus more when there are babies which is really not all that many compared to some breeders and it has only been myself for all these years on doing the bird stuff.... oh man, it has really only been a financial burden on me. I don't care how much a person loves birds, it is a lot of hard work day in and day out. Agree with her to let you take on the whole thing yourself for at least two week and see how you feel with no help because often it will be that way. When you are sick, you still have to care for the birds.


I don't think, I'd give up school to get into the avian world of breeding and at this time it is hard to sell birds unless you practically give them away and it is not going to get better. Handfeeding babies to me does not pay off one bit for all the time, expense and love you would have put into it. I've ran myself ragged when I would have babies... I run on fumes.

I have always done the bird toy thing too along with what all I do and again, that part of it is not worth what you have to do to start up a good bird toy business and you honesly will have a hard time doing birds plus the bird toy sales at the same tiem, do one or the other is really better. I've been there and done that and as I sell off my breeder birds, it will give me more ample time for my bird toy business.

 

[CarmieJo]

The other thing you need to consider is your business experience. It is hard work and love does not make up for knoing how to balance a P&L statement. That is not to say to not follow your dreams but you might want to add some business courses to your journalism classes.

 

[jmfleish]

There are a lot of things to consider here. You say that this woman has a completely closed aviary but you mentioned boarders. I also question the types of birds that she is breeding. If I were ever to consider getting into breeding at this point, I would only breed the more rare species of birds. I'd stay away from the species that are being overbred such as Cockatiels, Budgies, Lovebirds. I don't know the Canadian market, so I can't say anything about which species are more in need of introduction but here in the US, I would be more interested in say the Rueppell's Parrot or some of the more rare species of Macaw or Cockatoo, of course that's just me.

As others have mentioned, breeding isn't for the faint of heart and I think the one thing that you really have to take to heart is that it is certainly not something you want to get into for profit. Those who do it right, never make a dime. As a matter of fact, they tend to lose money in it and they are doing it for the love of the species. Vet bills are incredible and you have to ask yourself how much you are willing to spend on babies who don't hatch perfectly. My Eclectus breeder has spent thousands on grey babies who wouldn't have made it without the vet care she provided, only to basically give them away because they were unsellable, but she felt they deserved the same quality of life that her sellable babies did and she wasn't willing to give up on them when they didn't hatch perfectly to begin with. Are you ready to face those kinds of hard choices?

Breeding is not for the faint of heart.

 

[srtiels]

Those who do it right, never make a dime. As a matter of fact, they tend to lose money in it and they are doing it for the love of the species.
-----------------------------------------------------

I'm going to be the odd voice in the crowd and state that I have bred cockatiels as the sole source of income from 1994 to 2005 and did very well.

The first thoughts that came to mind in reading the original posting were, the species of birds, the ages, how were records kept in regards to the pairs bred, does the original owner have a loyal customer base that you can assume if you do take over? Can you detail more on this?

As a new owner you want to initially work with what you have, NOT add more expences such as new cages, etc, when the pix's you posted looked fine.

As to downsizing, can you be more specific? You need to look at bloodlines, and when breeding keep a diverse bloodline, not 1 or 2 families. What was the past breeding practices, such as were the best young held back for future breeders, and the non-productive or unreliable pairs sold off?

These are just a few thought....

 

[jmfleish]

I'm going to be the odd voice in the crowd and state that I have bred cockatiels as the sole source of income from 1994 to 2005 and did very well.

Man, I would love to know how you managed to do that but maybe you don't have to invest as much into the smaller birds. When you get into the larger birds, greys and bigger, it seems to be more of an issue of you do it for the love of the species.

 

[Ming-Ming]

Thanks again for all the input! Honestly, I appreciate it!

I'm actually very determined to make it work. My sister's boyfriend runs his own business and although it is very different (art gallery) he is helping me out on learning things. He also recommended me go to a few seminars and I totally agree.

I have a friend who is interested in partnering up once we are both done school. We want to downsize so we can manage more, probably sell most of the birds there are tons of... for example there are large amounts of GCC, Cockatiels, and Lovebirds. Basically, I want to reduce them enough to fit into two rooms, instead of the three rooms they are originally in. Also I don't like handfeeding budgies... those little piranhas! Haha.

Anyways, I am planning on saving up a lot, and we figure if there are two of us, we can both take turns working parttime in the beginning to make the money, and one of us can be home to hand-feed etc.

As for the boarders... that is a long story. Basically, the breeder had a roommate who was going to take over the business, but she turned out to be a huge drama queen, completely lost interested, and left all her birds here. She wants them back, but the breeder was really nice and gave them to her expecting payment for both the birds, the toys, and the payment... and well that didn't happen. She pretty much owes her more than $3000. So hopefully they will be gone. Those birds were babies from the aviary, so they are safe.

I also agree that I want to try to introduce more "Rare" birds. The lovebirds are totally overbred in Ontario, they are EVERYWHERE. So I'd probably keep them to a minimum, and maybe try for cool mutations (I have a HUGE soft spot of lovies <3). Same with cockatiels. What I would like to see of more is rare mutations of GCC. Like the turquoise. Not sure about in the US, but there are only a few breeders I know of that manages to breed them.

She does have a very loyal customer base, as well as great partnerships with other aviaries (one that she buys her food from and occasionally handfeeds babies for), and another that has huge outdoor flights which she keeps her larger birds at, and also buys unweaned babies.) She also has volunteers come in weekly to help out, which is super nice <3

Once again, I don't expect a profit. Just survivability.
I am not hesitant to vet check birds that I suspect something wrong with, but most of the breeders I know of offer a 2 week guarantee in which the buyer can vet check the bird, and if something is wrong they will get a refund. Do most of you vet check all your birds?

As for the toy business. My boss is unwilling to give me additional hours this summer (boo on him!) and i'm not taking summer school this year, so basically I am doing nothing! So I think I might try to make some toys and start off very small, just give me something to do. I've already talked to jolly pets and they said they can wholesale me some balls! So at least I can do that in the meanwhile. Like I said this is going to be happening in the next 10 years, so no rush, but I just want to prepare myself =)

I also don't know much about how the actual breeding pairs were kept. Some were young, and some were obtained from other breeders, but I will have to discuss to her about their bloodlines, etc. and then compile a detailed spreadsheet about it.

Thanks again!