Help Identifying: Buffons Or Military

[TimMacaw]

Hello folks,
I used to be a member here several years ago, and decided to come back now that I have another bird. I had always been one to keep small birds, however this time around I've got myself Jelly. I traded one of my German Shepherd pups with championship lineage for him. He can be a bit moody at times, but has only nipped once, which was clearly my fault. However, that was expected and I am just happy he is content with perching on me while I walk around the house. He is supposed to be 7 years old, and I am his 3rd owner. I was told that he was a greater green macaw, although, being that I have never owned a macaw I am having a hard time trying to get to the bottom of whether he is a Buffons or a Military. He feels fairly heavy weighing maybe 3lbs or so, just guessing. I can't get him into the vet until the 18th, but I'll have an accurate weight at that point. His feather's are a bit rough, and my phone's camera is crap but if anyone could help me with identifying him correctly, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, if more photo's are necessary feel free to ask for specifics and I can get right on it. Thank You!

This photo has poor resolution/bad lighting, but figured I'd post it anyways.

 

[Feather]

He looks more like a military to me, but it's really hard to tell from pictures. How long is your bird?

 

[RachelM]

Thats what I think too. Military

 

[TimMacaw]

He looks more like a military to me, but it's really hard to tell from pictures. How long is your bird?

Ill try to get a measurement once I get back home, but im guessing he is somewhere between 30"-34".

 

[Hankmacaw]

Here is a picture of a Buffons'

Buffon’s Macaw, Florida.

" data-medium-file="https://naturetime.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/buffons-macaw.jpg?w=300" data-large-file="https://naturetime.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/buffons-macaw.jpg?w=630">

Her is your guy - I say Buffons;

 

[Hankmacaw]

From the AFA (American Federation of Aviculture)
COVER STORY The Great Green (Buffon's) Macaw: The Ambiguous Ara, (Ara ambiguus) | Boyd | AFA Watchbird
Appearance

The Buffon's macaw is the second largest macaw in the world, surpassed only by the Hyacinth macaw, although some Buffon's individuals may be larger (in weight and/ or physical size) than some Hyacinth individuals. In color, the Hyacinth and the Buffon's would never be confused, but the Buffon's does look quite a bit like the Military to the untrained eye (see

Fig. I). However it is in the Figure 1:Militarymacaw eye that the most definitive

distinction may be made. Both species are basically green (the Buffon's more of a yellow green) with a bare white facial patch with small black feather lines (sometimes partly red) above a large dark grey beak and red feathers on the forehead. A more complete comparison between the two species is given in Table 1. Scattered yellow feathers on the Buffon's body are not uncommon. Scattered maroon (bronze) feathers are also not uncommon, but occasionally birds develop partially maroon feathers over much of their bodies (Fig.2), the reason for which is unknown; but sometimes the feathers revert back to green after a moult.

The Military macaw has a darker wash over its body (darker green rather than yellow green, red on tail feathers rather than redorange), and is noticeably smaller than the Buffon's macaw (Table 1). At least in individuals of these species with origins in Central America, the most obvious distinguishing feature among adults (close up) is in the coloration of the eyes. It was first pointed out by Barbara Gould in the early 19 80s, and a drawing of hers is reproduced in Fig. 3 along with pictures of eyes of an adult Military macaw from Mexico and a Buffon's macaw of probably Nicaraguan heritage. Note the Military eye is yellow around the pupil while the Buffon's pupil has a grey ring separating the yellow of the outer iris. I have seen many Buffon's macaws with this characteristic eye, but I have also seen supposed Buffon's in which it is very difficult to tell whether there is a grey ring separating the pupil from the yellow of the rest of the iris. This may indicate a juvenile Buffon's, hybridization with Military macaw(s), heritage from the South American subspecies of the Buffon's (I found no documentation regarding eye color of the Ecuadorian subspecies), or these large macaws may possibly be large Military macaws.

 

[TimMacaw]

Thanks for this description. I believe I see the grey buffer ring in his eye, but most of you know better than I do, I'm certain

From the AFA (American Federation of Aviculture)
COVER STORY The Great Green (Buffon's) Macaw: The Ambiguous Ara, (Ara ambiguus) | Boyd | AFA Watchbird
Appearance

The Buffon's macaw is the second largest macaw in the world, surpassed only by the Hyacinth macaw, although some Buffon's individuals may be larger (in weight and/ or physical size) than some Hyacinth individuals. In color, the Hyacinth and the Buffon's would never be confused, but the Buffon's does look quite a bit like the Military to the untrained eye (see

Fig. I). However it is in the Figure 1:Militarymacaw eye that the most definitive

distinction may be made. Both species are basically green (the Buffon's more of a yellow green) with a bare white facial patch with small black feather lines (sometimes partly red) above a large dark grey beak and red feathers on the forehead. A more complete comparison between the two species is given in Table 1. Scattered yellow feathers on the Buffon's body are not uncommon. Scattered maroon (bronze) feathers are also not uncommon, but occasionally birds develop partially maroon feathers over much of their bodies (Fig.2), the reason for which is unknown; but sometimes the feathers revert back to green after a moult.

The Military macaw has a darker wash over its body (darker green rather than yellow green, red on tail feathers rather than redorange), and is noticeably smaller than the Buffon's macaw (Table 1). At least in individuals of these species with origins in Central America, the most obvious distinguishing feature among adults (close up) is in the coloration of the eyes. It was first pointed out by Barbara Gould in the early 19 80s, and a drawing of hers is reproduced in Fig. 3 along with pictures of eyes of an adult Military macaw from Mexico and a Buffon's macaw of probably Nicaraguan heritage. Note the Military eye is yellow around the pupil while the Buffon's pupil has a grey ring separating the yellow of the outer iris. I have seen many Buffon's macaws with this characteristic eye, but I have also seen supposed Buffon's in which it is very difficult to tell whether there is a grey ring separating the pupil from the yellow of the rest of the iris. This may indicate a juvenile Buffon's, hybridization with Military macaw(s), heritage from the South American subspecies of the Buffon's (I found no documentation regarding eye color of the Ecuadorian subspecies), or these large macaws may possibly be large Military macaws.

 

[TimMacaw]

I can't seem to find my tape measure at the moment, but here is a crappy low res photo of Jelly next to a 2 liter soda bottle for size reference if that helps.

 

[melissasparrots]

He looks like a military to me. The mandible and head shape just don't have the same bulk as the buffon's have. The tail looks more military to me. Some buffon's have more orange in the tail.

 

[Feather]

I still say Military, but your avian vet will probably be able to positively ID him for you when they see him in person. Though it's also possible he could be a hybrid between the two.

 

[Hankmacaw]

I don't know. The grey ring is definitely there around the pupil and I can't see any difference in the head bulk between the two pictures of a sample Buffons and Tim's bird. Plus Jelly has a lime true lime cast to his coat in one of his pictures.

 

[Macawnutz]

Looking at his head I see military. When I see the buffons pictures it usually jumps out at me that they look masculine. Like Melissa, I don't see the bulky look to him. I do see the eye ring but Sakie tends to have that same coloring in certain light.

However, I'm not a buffon expert, I just have my military girl. I'm going to tag two people that have buffon experience.

@aooratrix @Big Blues

 

[TimMacaw]

Thank all of you for the input. Your responses are invaluable. Either way, I'm extremely happy with him. After reading both descriptions, it is so hard to tell. I can clearly see the grey line around his eye in any light. Can military's have this as well?

 

[Macawnutz]

Thank all of you for the input. Your responses are invaluable. Either way, I'm extremely happy with him. After reading both descriptions, it is so hard to tell. I can clearly see the grey line around his eye in any light. Can military's have this as well?

My Military had a light ring around her eye years ago, someone had your same question and I took a clear picture of it. She is 61 now and her eyes have that cataract haze about them so it's hard to see. The two people I tagged have a good eye for the difference. Big blues owns both so you can't get better than that.

 

[TimMacaw]

Awesome, There are so many helpful folks around here. Many thanks my friend!

My Military had a light ring around her eye years ago, someone had your same question and I took a clear picture of it. She is 61 now and her eyes have that cataract haze about them so it's hard to see. The two people I tagged have a good eye for the difference. Big blues owns both so you can't get better than that.

 

[Big Blues]

Hi, welcome, Jelly! My first guess is that Jelly is a Buffons. It appears in some views especially the pic where she is holding the bottle that she has a flat top of her head as do Buffons. Her colors are difficult in the pics because of the lights, one will show darker green and another will show lime green shade. I would say that her weight 1360.78 grams or 3lbs is heavy for a Military, however, not impossible. We have a female and a male Buffons and the male is 1360 grams; the female 1250. Looking forward to hearing her vet's opinion after her appointment.

 

[TimMacaw]

Hi, welcome, Jelly! My first guess is that Jelly is a Buffons. It appears in some views especially the pic where she is holding the bottle that she has a flat top of her head as do Buffons. Her colors are difficult in the pics because of the lights, one will show darker green and another will show lime green shade. I would say that her weight 1360.78 grams or 3lbs is heavy for a Military, however, not impossible. We have a female and a male Buffons and the male is 1360 grams; the female 1250. Looking forward to hearing her vet's opinion after her appointment.

Thank you for taking the time to respond with your experience. I very much appreciate your input. I will certainly revisit this thread, and post the findings of my vet after Jelly's appointment.

 

[alshgs]

I just wanted to stop and say that jelly is gorgeous. I want a macaw someday

 

[Fia Baby]

I'm interested to find out too- I see the eyes, but I don't see the orange in the tail. I hear the approximate weight, but I don't see the more massive beak. And I'm not sure on the color... I have read about some really large militaries, but I'm not sure how common they are... She could be a mix, but she's beautiful, regardless of pedigree.

 

[Fia Baby]

Has he been in the shower with you yet? Showering with macaws has to be one of life's finer experiences.