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Harley Update

BirdGuy21

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Hey everyone,

It seems likes its been forever since I was last on the forum. These past few months have been pretty crazy and not altogether pleasant, both on a personal level and with Harley. We've been through a lot of ups and downs, mostly downs- but we seem to be making our way out of it (knock on wood). Good news is we are closing on a house next week, so I finally get to start designing my bird room! Bad news is Harley has not been doing well at all :(.

It all started around February/March when he started what I have termed "an episode". He would be on his stand or perch and start to bob his head around in a figure eight motion while dropping/half flapping his wings, and make this sort of choking like sound. Imagine what it sounds like to clear your throat if you had something stuck; not exactly the same noise but similar. I don't know if he was mimicking something or not, but it quickly became his go to noise for when he was uncomfortable. He did this kind of activity before, usually when he wanted me to come pick him up. This time it was different. As time progressed this behavior (his episodes) quickly escalated. It became a near constant thing and soon incorporated feather destructive behavior. Prior to the start of these episodes his feather picking was under control and he was hardly picking at all.

Flash forward to around April and things took a turn for the worse. Seemingly overnight he became very fearful of any activity, motion, or noise in the house. He would still step up but would start to fly off my hand or perch/stand and "panic fly" around the house. This too escalated until he would be flying into walls, doors, corners, etc. (Before this all started he became a fairly accomplished flyer, being able to turn well and land with ease.) His shaking behavior became so pronounced that he stopped eating and would sometimes slip off the stand. Prior to all this all he would want would be to be with me, whether that be on my shoulder, holding him, getting scritches, or sitting with me in the chair. Now he is almost unhandle-able because of how panicked he gets and there are so many feathers picked that I need to vacuum almost daily to clean them all up.

I was in contact with local avian vets trying to find someone to help, but the only response I got was "he's a Grey, they're nervous birds and they do that". He was always somewhat high strung, but this was different, I knew something was wrong. Thankfully I found a great vet about and hour and a half north of me who was willing to listen and help. We made the trek up to her office and she agreed that this behavior was not normal and could indicate some underlying health issue. She wanted to rule out any issues with his heart so he was sedated and had an X-ray done, as well as tests for lead and zinc toxicity, bornavirus, and a full blood panel. He went through the procedures well and the results all came back normal- no issues found. The working diagnosis is it could be a type of seizure or neurological issue.

She prescribed an anticonvulsant to see if that would eliminate or slow down the shaking. Unfortunately it didn't help- he continued to get much much worse. Two weeks ago he started having severe episodes and panic flew around the house until he crashed and rolled after hitting the wall. His appetite decreased and he lost all interest in his almonds and nutriberries foraging. I could see in his eyes that he was not there. We agreed that the anticonvulsant wasn't having any immediate effects and the stress of the episodes was not good for his heart, so we started him on an anti-anxiety med diazepam to help him settle down until we can figure out where to go next. This has helped a little, but not much. She has reached out to other avian vets to see if anyone has seen this before and perhaps recommend a new course of action.

So, that is where we have been for the past few months. It breaks my heart to write this and think back at all that has happened. What was so strange was the severe changes happened almost overnight, and it was like he became a different bird. We're trying our best to figure out what is wrong and how to help him but have not had much success so far. I am thankful that I found a vet that is willing to help and take me seriously. I know in my heart that something is wrong, this isn't my Harley; I can see it in his eyes.

I plan to be back on the forum again, especially as we get settled in the house and start building the bird room. And I of course will update on Harley's progress.
 

zoo mom

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Has Harley possibly had a stroke which could account for the change in behavior.
 

faislaq

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Poor Harley and poor you! :sadhug2: How stressful. And the good stress of homebuying to boot.
I'm glad you found a helpvul vet. I hope she can find some way to help.


Congratulations on your new home & it's good to see you posting again. :)
 

BirdGuy21

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Has Harley possibly had a stroke which could account for the change in behavior.
That is something I've tossed around in my head but haven't brought up to our vet yet. I will have to do so in my next email. It would account for the suddenness of everything.

Poor Harley and poor you! :sadhug2: How stressful. And the good stress of homebuying to boot.
I'm glad you found a helpvul vet. I hope she can find some way to help.

Congratulations on your new home & it's good to see you posting again. :)
Very lucky to find a vet that took us seriously. She actually came and taught our parrot rescue group the basics of avian first aid and stayed after for questions and answers. That's how we met and started talking about what was going on at the time with Harley.

Thanks you! Very excited to have our own house which will enable us to upgrade cages for the flock! And it's good to be back, I missed AA!
 

BirdGuy21

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Had a pretty decent day yesterday, no episodes and no feather picking. Unfortunately today isn’t off to such an auspicious start. Must have had an episode last night/this morning. Very panicky and shaking this morning.

:(

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faislaq

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:( Hang in there guys.
 

BirdGuy21

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:( Hang in there guys.
Thank you. Today actually ended up being an okay day. I was heading to my parents for Father's Day and had the idea of taking him with me. Thought that maybe breaking him out of the house might be good for him, since he would be able to sit outside and enjoy the sunlight. Downside was that it could have gone very poorly, but decided to take the risk and see how he would do. He actually did very well and was even hamming it up, talking to my parents with phrases he hasn't said in the months since this started. Fingers crossed that this week will be okay and he will settle into the new house alright this coming weekend.
 

finchly

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A stroke maybe, and the moving/packing/you guys being unsettled due to the move — all these are stressful. Poor baby.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it and he gets better, or at least gets on some really good meds.
 

BirdGuy21

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I know, I hate moving and get stressed pretty easily with the packing processes. I’ve tried to remain even keeled throughout for Harley.

He’s on the diazepam right now and she is looking into any alternative medicines since it isn’t have too significant of an effect.

Does anyone know of any other medicines of this nature?
 

cassiesdad

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I really don't know much about the medications you're asking about.

Sending out good thoughts to Harley and you...
 

Hankmacaw

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sunnysmom

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Oh Jake, I'm so sorry. I know I've been a bit MIA with the rescue lately and didn't know you were having Harley issues. Sunny had a stroke and what you're describing doesn't sound like one to me- at least my experience with one. It does sound possibly neurological though which I guess could be the result of a stroke but I think you would have noticed more stroke like symptoms at the time. At one point in time, I was concerned that Sunny had neurological issues as he would sometimes just stare of into space. My vet said that they're really hard to test for/diagnose and that for an older bird like Sunny he really didn't even want to consider doing. I ended up making dietary changes which actually seemed to help a lot- adding supplements, eliminating others, etc. Although I know your birds already have a great diet. And also what happened to Sunny wasn't nearly as severe as what Harley is doing. Call me or message me if you want to talk.

:sadhug2:
 

BirdGuy21

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Thank you everyone for your support and kind words, it really does mean a lot and helps. I'm sorry I've been so MIA lately.

Vet wants to wean him off the anticonvulsant and diazepam as we haven't seen any results in the past month (month and a half maybe, time is flying by). She wants to try to start him on gabapentin, as it has an anticonvulsant effect and treats nerve issues. We have also been discussing a more, "homeopathic", type of treatment with cannabis oil. It was recommended to her by a colleague and she is researching effects in parrots. Thus far she hasn't found many instances of avian use but the studies she has found don't state any side effects.

From the non-medical end he has been fairly consistent. Had a few severe episodes yesterday and a pretty major picking episode. What makes me sad to think about is how this has become the new normal. Kim and I were talking about everything the other day and reminisced how he was before this all started and it got me thinking that those times seem like a different bird. I hope he isn't in too much discomfort or anxiety.
 

cassiesdad

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Continuing good thoughts and prayers going out to you and Harley down in the 'burgh.

Please keep us updated on him when you can...:heart:
 

BirdGuy21

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Haldol (Haloperidol) has been used traditionally for feather plucking, but there wasn't enough study of the dosage. Dr. Jeff Jenkins, a San Diego vet) has done a lot of work with Haldol and no long does your bird need to be a zombie bird while on Haldol. Here is some information about Dr. Jenkins.

Feather Destructive Behavior - an effective treatment - The Chloe Sanctuary for Parrots and Cockatoos

Feather picking and self-mutilation in psittacine birds | Jeffrey Jenkins - Academia.edu
Very interesting article. I will mention Haloperidol to the vet in my next email and see her thoughts. Right now we are torn on treating this as a neurological problem- including some type of seizure disorder, a cardiovascular issue, bornavirus (although he tested negative, apparently false negatives are common), and behavioral. The anticonvulsants haven't had any affect and there has been no real affect with the diazepam. I was really caught by the authors suggestion to give the bird a "compelling occupation", the only issue is he when he gets into these "episodes" nothing can distract him- that combined with the suddenness of their onset makes the vet think something more than behavioral. The other thought he is has no real interest in any toys. He plays when he feels like it, but I haven't found a toy yet that distracts him.

Been thinking about Harley...how's he doing?
Thank you! Very much appreciated, truly. Planning on any trips down to Pittsburgh this summer?
 

cassiesdad

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Very interesting article. I will mention Haloperidol to the vet in my next email and see her thoughts. Right now we are torn on treating this as a neurological problem- including some type of seizure disorder, a cardiovascular issue, bornavirus (although he tested negative, apparently false negatives are common), and behavioral. The anticonvulsants haven't had any affect and there has been no real affect with the diazepam. I was really caught by the authors suggestion to give the bird a "compelling occupation", the only issue is he when he gets into these "episodes" nothing can distract him- that combined with the suddenness of their onset makes the vet think something more than behavioral. The other thought he is has no real interest in any toys. He plays when he feels like it, but I haven't found a toy yet that distracts him.



Thank you! Very much appreciated, truly. Planning on any trips down to Pittsburgh this summer?
Not as far as I know right now. Milton and Buddy's annuals are scheduled for the 18th of the month...our AV is in Buffalo, NY....
 

sunnysmom

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Poor Harley. I hope the vet figures out something to help. I think I only met Harley once but I was struck by how much he adored you. I think I told you (or Kim) then that he was going to be your next bird. ;) I'm sure Harley realizes that he is loved and that has to give him comfort.
 

BirdGuy21

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Not as far as I know right now. Milton and Buddy's annuals are scheduled for the 18th of the month...our AV is in Buffalo, NY....
If you ever stop down to Pittsburgh you could visit Elvis and meet Harley, you know the saying about two birds... haha.

Poor Harley. I hope the vet figures out something to help. I think I only met Harley once but I was struck by how much he adored you. I think I told you (or Kim) then that he was going to be your next bird. ;) I'm sure Harley realizes that he is loved and that has to give him comfort.
Thank you Michelle, you are always so support and kind :). I remember that day you met him and you telling that to Kim, seems like just yesterday but also so long ago at the same time.
 
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