Cross Breeding Parrots. Your Thoughts?

[parrotkid]

So, I've seen on the web 'Cross Bred Parrots' Particularly Macaws. Like, Cross Breeding a Scarlet and a Blue and Gold to create Tropicana Macaws. I myself like it and dislike it at the same time... Making different species... Cool! But, what if some of these species become threatened and there aren't any purebreds left!? So... That's just my thoughts.... But, I'm curious about yours! What are your thoughts on this?

 

[parrotkid]

Ugh! There's a Typo in the Title of the poll.... Across is Actually Cross... :/ IPads have Autocorrect and I HATE IT!

 

[TextsFromParrots]

I think the same thing about them as I do about designer dog breeds. People are breeding, not just to make hybrids,but to make flashy new names to attract people. You aren't buying a plain ol' blue and gold macaw, you have a SHAMROCK macaw, etc. There's no real reason for it, no purpose, they aren't breeding for personality or health or any other reason except people like the more exotic and they're supplying that need. It is especially worrisome as I know there are people that encourage the breeding of rarer birds like hyacinths and buffons etc to make hybrids. So yeah, I really view these things much like people who started breeding designer dog breeds. Do you know why we have labradoodles? Puggles? Goldendoodles? Because the names are cute! And people buy cute. The same with hybrids, the names are catchy and new, and the birds are 'rare'.

 

[halfthewords]

Same as with crossbreeding dogs: unethical, unnecessary, and a complete farce for the people buying these birds for ridiculosuly inflated prices. Not to mention the health problems associated with a lot of (dog mainly, not an expert on parrot) crosses.

 

[parrotkid]

Yes, and I agree but, I've never thought of it like that. It's a very good example though! The reason I bought this up was because I saw in a bird magazine I purchase every 2 months 'Galateils' Which are simply Galahs cross Teils, so I did further research and found all the different types people have made. Also, I found that, Crossbred birds are unable to breed with birds of the same species. My thoughts were the amateur breeders with no knowledge or experience would buy them (thinking they can make a bucketload of cash) only to find they spent thousands on birds that can't breed in the first place! I'm fine with 'Colour Mutations' though but, they're completely different altogether!

 

[Anne & Gang]

I am completely against it.

 

[roxynoodle]

I'm undecided. Some of the macaw hybrids are quite attractive. And in a recent post regarding the macs, George said he's never seen one come into rescue. So it could be the people who seek one out are more inclined to know what they are getting into with parrot ownership and therefore are more likely to keep their bird. If that is the case, then that is actually a positive for them.

I don't see any point whatsoever though for conure/macaw hybrids. There really doesn't seem to be a market at all for them, and I often see them being rehomed.

I do personally think all birds are beautiful as they are though.

And sometimes 2 birds bond and mate, and the human owner finds him/herself unable to destroy the embryos, feeling as if they are causing abortion. I can understand that feeling and bet I would struggle with it myself.

So I'm not going to vote as I'm not strongly feeling one opinion or the other.

 

[CheekyBeaks]

I am completely against hybridising, it really comes down to unethical greedy breeders trying to make a fortune out of 'rare' birds.

 

[Lady Jane]

My thoughts are No No No and a thousand more no's.

 

[sodakat]

It is illegal to create hybrid parrots in New Jersey. I don't know if it is illegal in any other state in the U.S. or if any country prohibits it entirely. Here is the wording from NJ Fish and Wildlife:

"To preserve the genetic integrity of species of regulated birds, distinct species of birds shall not be crossbred with
other different species of birds to produce hybrid birds."

So, it would be illegal to breed a Sunday conure for example.

Also you must obtain a permit just to keep these species in New Jersey:

1. Birds:
i. Red-fronted parrot - Amazona viridigenalis;
ii. Turquoise-fronted parrot - Amazona aestiva;
iii. Yellow-cheeked parrot - Amazona a. autumnalis;
iv. Half-moon conure - Aratinga jandaya;
v. Jenday Conure - Aratinga jandaya;
vi. Sun Conure - Aratinga solstitialis
vii. Nanday Conure - Nandayus nenday
viii. African/Timneh gray parrot - Psittacus erithacus;
ix. Macaws - Ara. spp. & Anodorhynchus spp. (Except
endangered forms.)

From http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/permregs.pdf

 

[karen256]

Some hybrids are beautiful and I do think that hybrids between very similar species (say, suns/jendays) don't tend to have health issues as might be the case among hybrids between more distantly related species. Also, parrots can and do hybridize in the wild. Mostly it occurs among similar looking species where their ranges overlap. Appropriate nesting sites for parrots are fairly rare, and it is not unusual for a pair to steal another pair's nest site and kill their chicks or eggs to use the nest themselves. Except, they sometimes miss an egg, and end up incubating the egg of another parrot species with their own. This baby will grow up imprinted to its adoptive parents' species and will seek a mate of their species, resulting in hybrids. I've heard of this in macaws and cockatoos, and it probably happens in other species, too.
Personally, I'm really not a fan of breeding hybrids without a very good reason for it (basically when needed for genetic diversity), but not too strongly opposed to breeding hybrids that are in the same genus. I think intentionally breeding galahs/tiels, or Hyacinths/militaries and other cross-genus breeding is irresponsible and may cause health and behavior problems.
I know people like the idea of keeping the species pure and genetically the same as their wild ancestors but really, most of our pet birds are not the same as their wild counterparts anyway. We give them lots of food, safety from predators, ect.; babies that happen to be slower fliers, or uniquely colored, or any of a variety of conditions that might make them stand out to predators in the wild, have no effect on their survival as pets, and some may be bred for different colors too.

 

[parrotkid]

I agree with everyone whose said it's just greedy breeders trying to make a buck! Also the gullible and amateur owners who have no experience and might think they are an actual pure specie of parrot! Also like Karen above me how she said many of our babies are to domesticated to be classed as a pure specie of parrot. She mentioned the unique colour hybrids you can get which don't normally happen in the wild... But, still aren't overall 'cross bred' birds... I dunno! But, it's very interesting hearing everyone's views on this issue!

 

[Cyreen]

Cross breeding species, I very definitely have a problem with. It makes me cringe that a local bird store has a Black Headed Caique that they have been trying to breed with a White Belly for years. So far they've been unsuccessful. However, I have to admit I've always been smitten with Catalina Macaws and were I ever to come across one in need of a home who liked me, I might actually graduate to BIG birds.

 

[pitman44]

Same as with crossbreeding dogs: unethical, unnecessary, and a complete farce for the people buying these birds for ridiculosuly inflated prices. Not to mention the health problems associated with a lot of (dog mainly, not an expert on parrot) crosses.

On the other many registered, AKA purebred, dogs have inbred genetic disorders. Generally speaking a mutt will often have fewer genetic issues and live a longer, healthier life span.

 

[CheekyBeaks]

On the other many registered, AKA purebred, dogs have inbred genetic disorders. Generally speaking a mutt will often have fewer genetic issues and live a longer, healthier life span.

That is generally due to breeders purposefully inbreeding to achieve a desired trait in the breed,ie colour, body structure, coat lengths and types etc... People have played around with dogs so much that most breeds no longer look anything like their wild ancestors despite that fact they are the same species, again this is due to humans redesigning the species to suit their own desires,and ultimately having little regard for their overall health and well being. I hope this never happens to parrots they are already perfect the way nature designed them.

 

[moonchild]

That is generally due to breeders purposefully inbreeding to achieve a desired trait in the breed,ie colour, body structure, coat lengths and types etc... People have played around with dogs so much that most breeds no longer look anything like their wild ancestors despite that fact they are the same species, again this is due to humans redesigning the species to suit their own desires,and ultimately having little regard for their overall health and well being. I hope this never happens to parrots they are already perfect the way nature designed them.

It already has - English budgies are the one example I can think of. They typically have shorter lifespans than "normal" budgies. And sometimes birds of a certain artifically-created color mutation can be genetically weak. Not always, but sometimes. I have a pair of English budgies, and all of my birds are "unnatural" mutations, but most were adopted. It *is* possible for breeders of purebred dogs and selectively bred birds to give a crap and breed for health, but inbreeding is the way they got there to begin with.

As for hybrids? I don't feel too strongly one way or another. I certainly see why some people are 100% against it. For me it's more on a case by case basis.

 

[Somebirdie]

I just want to clarify that mixing dog breeds are NOT hybrids. They are the SAME species.

When it comes to hybrids of any kind I do not support it.

 

[Despicio]

I don't really see the point of hybridisation in most parrot species but I see no harm in it as long as the species being hybridised aren't rare in aviculture and care is taken to maintain pure lines as well. If certain hybrids were found that actually had a better temperament than the pure species and made better pets, I can only think that would be a good thing.

There's also the issue of hybrid vigor which could be of use for species such as the spix macaw which has such a tiny gene pool. A small number of genes from a closely related species can help to reduce the chances of genetic disorders while not changing the basic character of the species. A good example of a species that shows evidence for some past, natural hybridisation is Homo sapiens sapiens and I don't think that it did us any harm

 

[BraveheartDogs]

But with the designer dog breeds, they are also sucking people in by making guarantees that they simply cannot guarantee! I just came home from a behavior consult with two Labradoodles and guess what? My shirt is COVERED in hair, but they are supposed to be "non-shedding". I agree that people like to have exotic names, but I think that they also get people interested by making them believe that they are getting something that they may not even get. Annoying!

I think the same thing about them as I do about designer dog breeds. People are breeding, not just to make hybrids,but to make flashy new names to attract people. You aren't buying a plain ol' blue and gold macaw, you have a SHAMROCK macaw, etc. There's no real reason for it, no purpose, they aren't breeding for personality or health or any other reason except people like the more exotic and they're supplying that need. It is especially worrisome as I know there are people that encourage the breeding of rarer birds like hyacinths and buffons etc to make hybrids. So yeah, I really view these things much like people who started breeding designer dog breeds. Do you know why we have labradoodles? Puggles? Goldendoodles? Because the names are cute! And people buy cute. The same with hybrids, the names are catchy and new, and the birds are 'rare'.

 

[LaSelva]

I don't really see the point of hybridisation in most parrot species but I see no harm in it as long as the species being hybridised aren't rare in aviculture and care is taken to maintain pure lines as well. If certain hybrids were found that actually had a better temperament than the pure species and made better pets, I can only think that would be a good thing.

There's also the issue of hybrid vigor which could be of use for species such as the spix macaw which has such a tiny gene pool. A small number of genes from a closely related species can help to reduce the chances of genetic disorders while not changing the basic character of the species. A good example of a species that shows evidence for some past, natural hybridisation is Homo sapiens sapiens and I don't think that it did us any harm

I find what you're speculating interesting. Have you read Spix's macaw by Toni Juniper by any chance? He actually does address the subject of their small gene pool briefly. But (on topic) I think its important to consider that the adverse side effects of single-trait selective breeding in animals, whether livestock or domestic pets, (in all cases that I know of) were unintended and unexpected. A gene that governs a natural physical trait may also be an active influence on that animals organs, emotions, and innate behaviors. The same "multifunction" is also true of the chemicals in our bodies. So by modifying a gene to obtain one desired outcome we can cause serious problems. Usually this isn't evident until some time down the line. In other words, while we’re paying attention to the change we’re breeding for we may not notice the harm we’re causing. Agriculture, in addtion to what's well known about domesticated pets, has many such instances that are well documented. Because of this I'd be against cross breeding as a general rule.

Want to add that for the sake of this discussion I'm not including some pigeon fanciers, who, it can be argued, do breed for mental illness or "ticks" as in the case of tumblers and rollers.