Bourna virus/PDD could use advice

[mythic55]

Hi,

He basically picks the seeds of pellet berries and nibbles on a few pellets and the occasional slice of banana or apple.
I have been giving him oat groats, which I know are a treat and shouldn't be fed too much. But I figure he has to have something other than seeds in his stomach.

Im being serious- sprouted seed is a huge part of small birds diet, and extremely healthy as well as easy to digest. Sprouting seed is easy- you can more than likely use the seed you have on hand.

Place seeds in a full bowl of water with a touch of vinegar overnight (vinegar prevents bacteria). In the morning, strain. Strain a few more times throughout the day. Let sit overnight again, and in the morning you have sprouted seed... keep the the fridge: IT HAS SAVED BIRDS LIVES



(you can let it get as big as you want- here I placed in on a plate for another 24 hours while kept moist until it had long roots)

 

[emkiwi]

Sprouted seed was next on my list to try, but I haven't done so yet. I had some soak and sprout scheduled to arrive Friday, but that would mean he may not get to eat it until a week from now. So I may have to go out and buy some regular bird seed to give it a try. I'm not home for 9-10 hours a day while I work, so hopefully it will still work without constant straining.

 

[Pentameter]

Have you tried Lafeber's nutrimeals... they're a little bit pellety compared to the berries, but they've got the seed, etc in them and my budgie ate them (she would pretty much only eat nutriberries, etc). In my experience, the pellet berries were picked through for the "good" bits. Scrambled eggs with a bit of paprika in them is also a good way to get them eating something with a little more protein in it.

 

[rocky'smom]

Just read your post. I am so sorry.

You have a small bird, right? There was a thread that @rocky'smom had posted about Rocky when he was ill that had hints on how and what to get them to eat.

i posted on the first page of this thread warm mash.

 

[greys4u]

Listening to the first posting I think all vets must get the same script.. My vet said the same thing as yours, but Valentine has ABV and the DNA showed positive for PDD. We are holding off on medication at this point.

 

[emkiwi]

I would love it if a mash worked, but my bird avoids anything mushy. I'm gonna try to the sprouts but hold off on any formula as a last resort.

Greys4U: How are you treating your bird? I don't feel like the medication is doing anything. Though when I called my vet today she suggested upping the dose.

 

[greys4u]

I have Valentine on Harrisions pellets and dehydrated veggies. The veggies can be re hydrated she loves it. I leave pellets all day and then at 4 she gets the veggies. I have not had any problem with her eating. My vet doesnt want to start her on anything yet (medicine) until she starts showing symptoms. At this point all I can do is watch her and if anything changes, call him ASAP. As with any medication, there is trial and error until the right dosage is reached.

 

[emkiwi]

Thanks for the reply. My bird definitely has symptoms. And they've gotten much worse in the past week or so. That's why this diet thing is so frustrating.

 

[BeakFace]

I work at the local rescue and the director has dealt with this very well. She has to hand feed many times a day and I have seen incredible results. One couple surrendered their bird and now 1.5 years later taking him home! It was so thin and I didn't have much hope by the look of this Macaw but OMG the bird eats on its own now! He still is being hand fed twice a day to make sure it keeps it weight up. It was a skeleton when it came to rescue! It takes a lot of time and work and what works for one bird doesn't work for another! Peanut butter was a big part of getting this bird to eat and was always hand fed for many months because he wouldn't touch his food. Now she came up with a healthy diet and this bird eats some on its own but will always have to be hand fed twice a day and monitored closely for weight! His parronts would visit and the bird was so excited to see them and what a happy, happy ending. Its only been 2 weeks since he went back to his original owners and they also took his friend with the same condition that had been brought to the rescue just months ago so he had a buddy! It was love at first site. This Macaw had to be in quantine and kept away all by himself and now he had a buddy! He had an outdoor flight set up for his special needs! Wow it made such a big difference for both of them. Now two birds together living a good life with the same condition! They have an outdoor aviary and indoor for those special times if it gets to hot or cold! They are in constant touch with Debbie who took the best of care. This birds name was Chicken and a big part of all our lives! Hope you find a solution to the diet soon. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Tanya]

I also find the lack of definitive information frustrating. Even reading the articles it's not clear to me if he's got little time left or could be here another year. Do birds with just bournovirus and not pdd pass seeds too?

Rhubarb doesn't pass seeds and she is ABV+. If your baby keeps loosing weight, perhaps you could talk with your vet about supplemental syringe feeding? Mash is easy to digest and if he doesn't eat it on his own, to keep him fighting you might need to help him eat it. Definitely consult your vet first!

 

[lexalayne]

I wish there were more clear cut answers. I’ve read on PDD and ABV and have been told lots of info is outdated. And much seems conflicting to me. It might be that every bird’s case is different for reasons we do not know yet.

 

[emkiwi]

BeakFace: Thanks for the success story. Good to know that good news is possible.
MMMQ: I did ask my vet about syringe feeding. She gave me some formula recommendations but agreed that it would be a risk since it's not something that I have experience with. It's probably only something I would do if I felt it was his only shot.

 

[Bokkapooh]

@Jeddy

While birdie bread can be good... it has a thick base whic has unfavorable ingredients. Similar to having a salad- but covering it in ranch dressing.
So while it is apealling to birds (because usually it is 80% corn or wheat) it is not ideal. It can however be used to 'convince' birds to eat healthier... often they become addicted to the corn, and refuse all else (dogs also get addicted to corn).

Those nutriberries are 50/50 and at least that is better than nothing. Then try to integrate foods... you may find that she prefers greens more... or squashes more... etc. My african grey had PBFD, and when integrating veggies- she prefered them in 'french fry' or 'match sticks'... it because fun for her to grab. Your bird may prefer a size or texture.

I would work harder on a pellet based diet, and as much variety of fresh items. Things that often help:
Chop things up very, very small and mix with millet (or ground sunflower- whatever if the favorite item)
Try things chopped fresh in large pieces, grated, cooked.... never know what will entice them.
Try serving fresh BEFORE breakfast... they are hungry when they wake up, and one bite is better than none

The bird's immune system mainly consists of lymphatic vessels and lymphoid tissue. Harrisons sunshine factor is good- it provides essential items, but it is not amazing. I would also recomend a probiotic.

I would also look for things that specifically increase immune system. Some herbs I can think of off hand are: Astragalus, Echinacea, Vitamins E,C and A
Sunflower seeds (moderation here- maybe crushed ones on top of an orange slice)
Carrots
Hot peppers
Fresh greens (this doesnt mean iceberg lettuce- that is mostly water)

Actually birdie bread can be super healthy. The kind I made was home made and has no corn added to it. It consisted of 50% Harrison pellets and TOPS and then the rest was blended produce and dehydrated veggies and fruits and grains. Very very healthy. It turned out very moist, like fudge brownies.

Moist diet are best for birds suffering with digestive issues.

 

[Wasabisaurus]

emkiwi - I am so sorry your bird has the borna virus. I had a scare a number of years ago.

One of my cockatiels is on celebrex too. I put his dose of celebrex on two pieces of millet, wait until he eats it and give him his Harrisons-pelletberry breakfast. The vet approved of that method. Snuggles does not like to be handled. It scares him.

 

[mythic55]

Sprouted seed was next on my list to try, but I haven't done so yet. I had some soak and sprout scheduled to arrive Friday, but that would mean he may not get to eat it until a week from now. So I may have to go out and buy some regular bird seed to give it a try. I'm not home for 9-10 hours a day while I work, so hopefully it will still work without constant straining.

Sprouted seed is very unstable- so I caution the 'ordering and delivery' you can most definately get away without straining.

When I had long working hours- I carried the seed with water in a water bottle/protein shaker. That way I could put it in my briefcase, and strain during the day in the bathroom or in the lunch room.

@Bokkapooh
I agree it *can* , and I trust you did the research to make sure- but most dont. Many recipes are jiffy meal with some pellets and fruit. Yipes.
When I was reading some of the prepared birdie bread bags- I was not happy with the ingredients as it was basically birdiecrack.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Sprouted seed is very unstable- so I caution the 'ordering and delivery' you can most definately get away without straining.

When I had long working hours- I carried the seed with water in a water bottle/protein shaker. That way I could put it in my briefcase, and strain during the day in the bathroom or in the lunch room.

@Bokkapooh
I agree it *can* , and I trust you did the research to make sure- but most dont. Many recipes are jiffy meal with some pellets and fruit. Yipes.
When I was reading some of the prepared birdie bread bags- I was not happy with the ingredients as it was basically birdiecrack.

I dont think most bird owners use jiffy (YUCK) or the other birdie breads available. I was under the assumption most made their own.

And yes I did the research. My birdie bread (brownies?) Are very healthy. No eggs. No yeast. Nothing butt the pellet mix, blended produce and dehydrated fruits and veggies and grains and nuts. Its very healthy. And anyone can make it. Most birds love it, too.

 

[Bokkapooh]

Ingredients. Just add apple sauce and a tiny bit of water to moisten the pellets to become soggy and liquidy.

 

[Bokkapooh]

How it turns out.

 

[mythic55]

I dont think most bird owners use jiffy (YUCK) or the other birdie breads available. I was under the assumption most made their own.

And yes I did the research. My birdie bread (brownies?) Are very healthy. No eggs. No yeast. Nothing butt the pellet mix, blended produce and dehydrated fruits and veggies and grains and nuts. Its very healthy. And anyone can make it. Most birds love it, too.

I might eat that.....
I can only assume you did- I know for a fact you are a responsible bird owner.

There was a poll awhile back from I believe from university of MN. It stated (from my hand written notes) only 38% of parrot owners 'cooked' for their birds.
72% (of 38%) used jiffy mix with additives. My comment was based on other comments: 'Hamburger helper vs grilled meat with veggies' for dinner with the family; ... type discussion.

 

[BeakFace]

BeakFace: Thanks for the success story. Good to know that good news is possible.
MMMQ: I did ask my vet about syringe feeding. She gave me some formula recommendations but agreed that it would be a risk since it's not something that I have experience with. It's probably only something I would do if I felt it was his only shot.

Hand feeding is easy if you have someone to show you how. Its nice if they can help you several days so you are comfortable with it! It would help maintaining weight while you get the diet that he will eat. Debbie to my knowledge has not lost a birds yet! So hang in there and give very thing a try! Your doing your best! Good luck! If you like you can call Debbie and I am sure she would help with any advice!!!