Biting Amazons!!!

[brandy2103]

I would love to hear from Amazon owners who deal with biting birds. I posted a thread in behavior byway, but I believe Amazon's are unique and it would help to hear from others who have them. I have a 10 month old Blue Front Amazon. He came to a pet shop from a breeder in FL, the family who bought him had children and a dog and when they were deployed over seas they brought him back to the pet shop, then I bought him. At first he showed no aggresive or biting behavior. He was nervous and a little standoffish, but for about three weeks no biting. Then one day he was screaming from his gym on top of his cage. I thought he wanted to come where I was so I offered my hand and said step up. I saw the eyes flare and tail fan, but it was too late and BAM he bit me, very hard. There was a lot of blood and tissue from inside my finger was bulging from the wound. I am a nurse so I just steri-stripped it and cleaned it with betadine. Could have used a few stitches, and it was the FIRST bite. That seemed to have "flipped a switch" in him. For a while he just went after me and I tried to accept it and move on. We thought he had "chosen" my husband. I educated Ted and had him spend time with Lunar. Well...today I thought something was in one of his nostrils and Ted told him to step up to look and he bit Ted even worse than what I got. He is also getting on the floor and tries to bite me if I am sitting on the floor. I have read about his body language, etc. But he is getting hard to predict. I will say when Ted got bit, I warned him Lunar was playing with a ball and very excited. In the past Lunar did not bite him even if he was excited, but that changed today. I told Ted it was his fault, but the bites hurt and he would not let go. Ted had to pry his beak off. I have some new ideas from others about books to read. It is just that if he tried to bite at the store I would not have brought him home. I thought since he was so young he would not bite, and of course the store owner assured me he would not bite and that he never had. I asked many times about that and handled Lunar a good bit trying to see if he was a biter.I knew that was the main thing I wanted to avoid. I can accept not petting him,and that he's not a cuddly bird, but the biting out of nowhere is hard to deal with. We have 2 children ages 5 and 9, I shudder to think what he would do to my 5 year old little girls finger. Of course I warn her to stay away. Do any of you Amazon owners deal with similar issues, can you share your ideas? Are they just really moody? I am sure it doesn't help that I am handfeeding a Baby Blue and Gold Macaw. Lunar either really loves the baby or wants to hurt it, I am afraid to let him get close enough to see. He is very interested in Cosmo he tries to get close and talks to him. I know one owner has dealt with this, she messaged me back and I appreciate it. I am gonna rig up my stick that way and wear shoes. THANKS!!! Whew...well that's my very long story. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your suggestions. I am trying to avoid rehoming him AGAIN! He is beautiful and so entertaining! I also think he is gonna be one heck of a talker! Please post to this, it is really helpful!

 

[Bokkapooh]

I know you want only amazon folk advice,but many people who have posted on the behavioral byway have amazons (myself included) or work with amazons and other types of parrots that are known to be highly aggressive (cockatoos, macaws, etc).

My advice is get behavioral books, do lots of research on Hot Three Amazon behavior, watch and learn his body language, be confident, teach him to be Stick trained, make sure his diet is great, cage size is great and he has toys and enrichment to help take out any frustrations he feels onto those toys, be vet checked and everything else that has been previously said on the behavior thread.

We're here for you Holler at us if you need any help

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I would love to hear from Amazon owners who deal with biting birds. I posted a thread in behavior byway, but I believe Amazon's are unique and it would help to hear from others who have them. I have a 10 month old Blue Front Amazon. He came to a pet shop from a breeder in FL, the family who bought him had children and a dog and when they were deployed over seas they brought him back to the pet shop, then I bought him. At first he showed no aggresive or biting behavior. He was nervous and a little standoffish, but for about three weeks no biting. Then one day he was screaming from his gym on top of his cage. I thought he wanted to come where I was so I offered my hand and said step up. I saw the eyes flare and tail fan, but it was too late and BAM he bit me, very hard. There was a lot of blood and tissue from inside my finger was bulging from the wound. I am a nurse so I just steri-stripped it and cleaned it with betadine. Could have used a few stitches, and it was the FIRST bite. That seemed to have "flipped a switch" in him. For a while he just went after me and I tried to accept it and move on. We thought he had "chosen" my husband. I educated Ted and had him spend time with Lunar. Well...today I thought something was in one of his nostrils and Ted told him to step up to look and he bit Ted even worse than what I got. He is also getting on the floor and tries to bite me if I am sitting on the floor. I have read about his body language, etc. But he is getting hard to predict. I will say when Ted got bit, I warned him Lunar was playing with a ball and very excited. In the past Lunar did not bite him even if he was excited, but that changed today. I told Ted it was his fault, but the bites hurt and he would not let go. Ted had to pry his beak off. I have some new ideas from others about books to read. It is just that if he tried to bite at the store I would not have brought him home. I thought since he was so young he would not bite, and of course the store owner assured me he would not bite and that he never had. I asked many times about that and handled Lunar a good bit trying to see if he was a biter.I knew that was the main thing I wanted to avoid. I can accept not petting him,and that he's not a cuddly bird, but the biting out of nowhere is hard to deal with. We have 2 children ages 5 and 9, I shudder to think what he would do to my 5 year old little girls finger. Of course I warn her to stay away. Do any of you Amazon owners deal with similar issues, can you share your ideas? Are they just really moody? I am sure it doesn't help that I am handfeeding a Baby Blue and Gold Macaw. Lunar either really loves the baby or wants to hurt it, I am afraid to let him get close enough to see. He is very interested in Cosmo he tries to get close and talks to him. I know one owner has dealt with this, she messaged me back and I appreciate it. I am gonna rig up my stick that way and wear shoes. THANKS!!! Whew...well that's my very long story. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your suggestions. I am trying to avoid rehoming him AGAIN! He is beautiful and so entertaining! I also think he is gonna be one heck of a talker! Please post to this, it is really helpful!

I also have an amazon, although I have never been bitten by him. You are right that the key is reading is body language. You may find that he is more challenging to deal with during certain times of the year. You might join the Bird-Click yahoo group as they have a lot of great information on working with aggressive birds and how to avoid bites.

 

[kali]

Saying that you would only buy a bird because 'it will not bite' is silly. ALL birds bite, and amazons are known for their aggressive behaviour. You can't just assume that sweet baby is going to be like that forever.

With that out of the way, I think learning to read his body language is the way to go.

 

[brandy2103]

I really don't consider myself "SILLY". I disagree with stating all birds bite. Obtaining a bird that was not a biter was important to me. He is young and I thought with a loving home and really good care I could keep it from becoming an issue. There is already someone who replied to this that says her Amazon has never bitten her. I think this is a learned behavior, and many people agree biting is not a natural behavior. He may have been mistreated at his previous home and was waiting till he felt comfortable to show his true colors, I don't know. I have heard of a honeymoon phase with birds and I know birds change when they are no longer babies. I have had this guy a month and a half. This is not nipping, or beaking we are talking about here. It is serious. I believe and Amazon could break a finger and if it were a child he bit, he could take part of it off! This is something I have to work out with him, it cannot continue. I am now looking at seriously cutting back his freedom/out of cage time, before he stayed on his play gym when I put him there and we could stay away. Now that he is getting down it changes things. I am going to try and locate the book that were recommended, I have already bought 2. I can't find the one Mercedez recommends at the bookstore, so I am going to order it. I am really trying here, but like I said I have 2 human children that I will always put first. Thanks!

 

[brandy2103]

Not at all Mercedez. You have probably helped more than anyone! I just posted this in the Amazon area because I think different types of birds have different behaviors and maybe I need to look at this from an Amazon view.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I really don't consider myself "SILLY". I disagree with stating all birds bite. Obtaining a bird that was not a biter was important to me. He is young and I thought with a loving home and really good care I could keep it from becoming an issue. There is already someone who replied to this that says her Amazon has never bitten her. I think this is a learned behavior, and many people agree biting is not a natural behavior. He may have been mistreated at his previous home and was waiting till he felt comfortable to show his true colors, I don't know. I have heard of a honeymoon phase with birds and I know birds change when they are no longer babies. I have had this guy a month and a half. This is not nipping, or beaking we are talking about here. It is serious. I believe and Amazon could break a finger and if it were a child he bit, he could take part of it off! This is something I have to work out with him, it cannot continue. I am now looking at seriously cutting back his freedom/out of cage time, before he stayed on his play gym when I put him there and we could stay away. Now that he is getting down it changes things. I am going to try and locate the book that were recommended, I have already bought 2. I can't find the one Mercedez recommends at the bookstore, so I am going to order it. I am really trying here, but like I said I have 2 human children that I will always put first. Thanks!

I said that my amazon has never bitten me but this is because I am extremely thoughtful in all my interactions with him and I watch his body language carefully. There have been many times when I asked "can you step up" and his body language clearly answered "no, not right now" and I respected that. I am sure if I pushed him he could have bitten. All birds can bite and I think most will in certain circumstances, but it is our responsibility to learn to interact with them and build cooperative relationships so that they don't have to. If having a bird that wouldn't bite was a priority for me, an Amazon is one of the last species I would choose. You're right, a biting Amazon is dangerous so you will have to work to communicate with him and work with him. You need to look for the earliest signs of arousal and not hold him when he is ramped up. When he is screaming he is aroused probably and that's not a good time to ask for a step up.

 

[brandy2103]

I try to stay away from putting all birds in one category, such as , all Amazons bite or all are aggresive,thought that if he was not already a biter and he was young he would not bite. I read about Amazon's and for every person that talked about the "Hot Three" being aggresive, there was someone else saying that was not true, and that this happened sometimes when they reached sexual maturity. I read there were ways to deal with it, and that it was only for a short length of time. He is only 10 months old, "supposedly" , the guy could have lied. I thought they reached maturity at about 3, so I had some time before that. This is just sudden. There are so many different views on handling them. Some say be confident, and some say if they don't feel like doing something leave them alone. I have read not to let them feel superior and not be above you, then others say that is not true. So you see for someone who is new to this , it is confusing. I am asking people on here because you are more experienced and you have had Amazons longer than a couple of months. I do watch his behavior, believe me, and I don't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. I think they are all different and have different personalities. I think you will get bitten, if they really want to get you. They are pretty quick. I am doing my best to avoid it, and I think my husband will now be more mindful of his body language too. Do you suggest not trying to touch him at all? Is there a way you know of to tell if this is sexual behavior and that he is really older? Just curious. Thanks!

 

[Brigidt36]

All birds have the potential to bite. The bite can be due to fear, aggression, hormonal issues, misplaced aggression, defense, etc. A whole list of reasons. The key is to watch the birds behavior and hints, and to also watch what your behavior is, what you are doing, what other people/pets are doing, etc. My zon has bit me a few times, probably more than I can count. Each time I didn't either read his behavior or I ignored his behavior or I wasn't aware of what else was happening around him. When Max, or any of my other birds for that matter, get startled by something they tend to lash out at what is closest to them and that is usually me. You have to remember that biting is also a form of communication, usually the last type they try. If their other attempts at communicating with you are ignored or not comprehended then they may bite as a last resort, and let me tell you, those bites get their points across quite well.

All animals can bite, from the cutest, littlest puppy/kitten/hamster to the larger animals. All have the ability and the means to do it, whether teeth, fangs or beak. re there birds who haven't bitten? Sure, but I'll bet a dollar to donuts it's because those birds parront's are quite in tune and intuitive to their birds overt and subtle behaviors.

Try to remember that your bird isn't biting you because he hates you, he is just trying to tell you something. You have to figure out what that something is.

Your BFA is beautiful and adorable. Wishing you two the best in getting to know each other and to developing mutual trust.

 

[brandy2103]

Vicki, how old is your Merlin? Have you had him a long time? He is very beautiful, what type is he?

You guys have to excuse my typing, not great at it to begin with, my keys are sticking. I really can spell a little better than it looks!

 

[brandy2103]

All birds have the potential to bite. The bite can be due to fear, aggression, hormonal issues, misplaced aggression, defense, etc. A whole list of reasons. The key is to watch the birds behavior and hints, and to also watch what your behavior is, what you are doing, what other people/pets are doing, etc. My zon has bit me a few times, probably more than I can count. Each time I didn't either read his behavior or I ignored his behavior or I wasn't aware of what else was happening around him. When Max, or any of my other birds for that matter, get startled by something they tend to lash out at what is closest to them and that is usually me. You have to remember that biting is also a form of communication, usually the last type they try. If their other attempts at communicating with you are ignored or not comprehended then they may bite as a last resort, and let me tell you, those bites get their points across quite well.

All animals can bite, from the cutest, littlest puppy/kitten/hamster to the larger animals. All have the ability and the means to do it, whether teeth, fangs or beak. re there birds who haven't bitten? Sure, but I'll bet a dollar to donuts it's because those birds parront's are quite in tune and intuitive to their birds overt and subtle behaviors.

Try to remember that your bird isn't biting you because he hates you, he is just trying to tell you something. You have to figure out what that something is.

Your BFA is beautiful and adorable. Wishing you two the best in getting to know each other and to developing mutual trust.

Thanks! You are so friendly!! I appreciate your message, your birds are beautiful as well! It was from your advice I got my arm cover and stopped using my fingers for step-up.

 

[JLcribber]

People say all the time about this wonderful bird they found on consignment or bought at the pet store. They brought it home from the shop and the bird was fabulous….for a couple of weeks or a month. Then the parrot started biting/screaming/what ever. They thought the bird had changed and didn't understand why. I would explain that in reality, the bird had changed back.

The Honeymoon is over. The bird is becoming more comfortable and secure in its new home and the bird you are seeing now is the "true" bird. This is one of the reasons we don't recommend people start out with large parrots like this without having some real large bird experience.

Your answer lies in "not" forcing this bird to do anything. You must slowly over time gain his trust and respect by the way "you" behave and handle him. There are no shortcuts. You must keenly observe him to learn and get to know him and his body language as quickly as possible. That will be your most valuable tool. Observe and take your cues from the bird. Listen to what you are observing. Always offer "choice". If you ask for a step up and the bird does not want to, back off and respect that.

If he is a nasty biter then your second most valuable tool is going to be a T stick to handle him. Using the stick allows you avoid those bites and to handle him without fear and confidence. The biting is a self reinforcing behavior and the more he does it, the more powerful he becomes. If you avoid the bites and the possible reward/reactions that go with it, "that" starts to become normal behavior.

 

[Bokkapooh]

There are so many different views on handling them. Some say be confident, and some say if they don't feel like doing something leave them alone. I have read not to let them feel superior and not be above you, then others say that is not true. So you see for someone who is new to this , it is confusing.

When most of us say, be confident, we do not mean acting superior to your parrot What we mean by that is show no fear when you are interacting with him or in the room with him. The best way for training any parrot/bird or any animal, is to use positive reinforcement and think about any actions you do and what they may cause in the relationship you are developing with Lunar. And the best way to develop a good long term relationship in all creatures (both human and animal) is to start out building trust.

I am SO GLAD you will be getting the Parrot Problem Solver. I absolutely recommend it hands down! Its by far the best book on parrot behavior in regards to behavior, and how to work with our birds. You will love the book and it will be an eye opener for you. It sure was for me, and its been my favorite bird book since the first day I read it last year! I LOVE it and cannot say anything bad about it!

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I try to stay away from putting all birds in one category, such as , all Amazons bite or all are aggresive,thought that if he was not already a biter and he was young he would not bite. I read about Amazon's and for every person that talked about the "Hot Three" being aggresive, there was someone else saying that was not true, and that this happened sometimes when they reached sexual maturity. I read there were ways to deal with it, and that it was only for a short length of time. He is only 10 months old, "supposedly" , the guy could have lied. I thought they reached maturity at about 3, so I had some time before that. This is just sudden. There are so many different views on handling them. Some say be confident, and some say if they don't feel like doing something leave them alone. I have read not to let them feel superior and not be above you, then others say that is not true. So you see for someone who is new to this , it is confusing. I am asking people on here because you are more experienced and you have had Amazons longer than a couple of months. I do watch his behavior, believe me, and I don't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. I think they are all different and have different personalities. I think you will get bitten, if they really want to get you. They are pretty quick. I am doing my best to avoid it, and I think my husband will now be more mindful of his body language too. Do you suggest not trying to touch him at all? Is there a way you know of to tell if this is sexual behavior and that he is really older? Just curious. Thanks!

It's not that you have to put all birds into one category and of course all birds are a study of one, but there are certain characteristics that are common among species, at least for the most part.

I would be doing a ton of clicker training. I would train him to step onto a stick, I would train him to target (go touch a stick) so that you can move him around and to station (go to a certain place in the cage). When Merlin, my amazon is less than cooperative sometimes just asking him for something else (like to target) and then reinforcing that gets him into a cooperative state of mind and he is immediately willing to work with me.

I know that you feel you watch him, but there may be smaller more subtle body language changes that you are seeing like how he is holding his feathers, the way his pupils or eyes in general look and things like that.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

Vicki, how old is your Merlin? Have you had him a long time? He is very beautiful, what type is he?

You guys have to excuse my typing, not great at it to begin with, my keys are sticking. I really can spell a little better than it looks!

Merlin is about 34 years old, I have had him since last October and he is a white fronted Amazon and I adore him to pieces

 

[Brigidt36]

Brandy, I hope the 'cheater' method helped a bit. It won't stop the bite from happening but it does help keeping that bite from being a bad one.

I'm glad you're getting that book. It will be very helpful. Remember when the nurse left you and your newborn alone together for the first time? Remember the first time you were home alone with your newborn for the first time. You were probably nervous, worried that you wouldn't know what your newborn's cries meant, afraid that maybe you wouldn't know how to calm a fussy baby, soothe an ear ache, etc. And if your baby was a good sleeper the first couple of days, then the first bad sleeping day was probably a real surprise. Most birds do go thru a honeymoon period of good behavior, and then WHAM, one day your sweet cutie pie is a lunging, biting, screaming bird. I don't think when the honeymoon is over you are seeing the REAL bird either. I believe the bird has observed you during the honeymoon, maybe you've developed a bit of mutual trust and now the bird feels comfortable enough to test YOUR behaviors and reactions to certain situations. It's a learning experience for BOTH of you and I believe you two will make it through all of this. Don't throw in the towel or give up on him. He's going to have temper tantrums and good and bad days just like your human children do. We'll be here for you two and help you through all of this.

 

[BraveheartDogs]

I am SO GLAD you will be getting the Parrot Problem Solver. I absolutely recommend it hands down! Its by far the best book on parrot behavior in regards to behavior, and how to work with our birds. You will love the book and it will be an eye opener for you. It sure was for me, and its been my favorite bird book since the first day I read it last year! I LOVE it and cannot say anything bad about it!

I agree, I love that book!

 

[brandy2103]

John, I totally believe in the whole honeymoon thought process, and that this is the real bird. This is the second "rehomed" bird I've had. The first was the little quaker I had, there was no honeymoon with her. She loved men and hated women and children. When she fell in love with my Dad, I knew she needed to go with him. Lunar is not so cut and dry. When he was so quiet and easy going at first, I knew he was not showing his true self and I told my husband he would "come out of his shell". I was looking forward to it, screaming, destroying toys, but not the biting. I feel like I have to work with him and try to get through it. I am a huge animal lover, I have mentioned about 12 years ago I had an Umbrella Cockatoo. She got jealous after I had my first child and I sold her. I regret it every day. I know you have Cockatoo's as well. I was her first owner and she never, ever bit me. I never even thought she would bite anyone. I could cuddle with her, she would lay on her back and then sit on my shoulder and play with my hair non-stop. She got down off her perch one day and really pinched my son who was an infant playing on the floor, she was jealous. was a new Mom and very young and I did what I thought I had to, I sold her. That is my experience with Big Parrots John, so you can see this is new. I have missed her so much, but I said I would wait to get another bird until I was finished having children so the bird could be raised with them.

 

[brandy2103]

See you guys....I am listening to you and I am taking your advice and suggestions. It's just like what I just posted to John, my experience with big Parrots was 12 years ago and she was a precious, cuddly and loveable Umbrella Cockatoo. I could pet her and scratch her anywhere, I could hold her like a baby. If I left the room she got down off her perch and followed me like a puppy. I was never bitten by her, but as you can see she eventually bit my baby. I trusted her too much, and it was my fault. She was my baby before I had him and she was jealous. I still miss her!

 

[brandy2103]

I guess I should have stayed with an Umbrella, but those bright colors can really catch your eye. I guess I thought all birds would be that way if you loved them and proved you were trustworthy. She was more like a puppy than a parrot, I see that now. Especially with my recent bird interactions and reading so much on here.