Any information on Newborn Quaker Parrots

[Learning89]

Is their anyone on here that is knowledgeable about newly hatched Quakers?

This is the deal:

Alright, my last post was in regards to my parent eating their babies and the fact that she was having more eggs. The advice I got was too separate my pair and get fake eggs. The eggs that I ordered then took a week and a half to two weeks to get to me but since I separated my pair in the middle of her clutch, she decided to finish her clutch of 6. I replaced the eggs with the fake ones as soon as I got the fake ones.... but I was stuck with 4 fertile eggs. What should I do? I made the decision to give them a chance to live ( I couldn’t kill them) and bought a brand new Brinsea brooder and an egg incubator and now I have some questions. As of right now I have been feeding the one that hatched every 1 1/2- 2 hours (day and night) and I have found me someone to feed it while im at work but it doesn't end there.....

Positive Note: Momma is now not trying to nest and is looking healthier and only gets supervised visits with Jujubee (who now knows how to break out of his cage)

Thank you all in advance.

 

[expressmailtome]

Bump.

 

[Learning89]

4 days old and I found a vet near by.

 

[melissasparrots]

I somehow missed this. I've raised lots of baby quakers from day one. Mostly because my pair were killing their babies right before they hatched. Let me know if I can help. Make sure you are weighing the babies every morning on an empty crop.

 

[Learning89]

I am so grateful for you right now Thank you already!

Alright so let me start with I had one with white down hatch last night. so now I have a 7 day old and a 1 day old. My first question would be How much weight should they be gaining within the first week? And how would I get him to gain weight? My other question would be what is the best feeding utensil to use to reduce air in his crop?

Thank you again.. This is exhausting by the way!

 

[melissasparrots]

Its been a few years since I've bred quakers, but I found an old file from 2010 with quaker weight data. Keep in mind that my quakers are standard greens, so the weights might be surprisingly higher than yours if you have blues. However, if you look at percent gained per day rather than actual numbers, you can probably get something useful from it. In 2010 I had 6 quaker babies. All of them had a day zero(hatchday) weight of 5g. By day 7 most of them were 11 or 12 grams with one fatty that was 13 grams. My scale only weighed in 1g increments with accuracy +/- 2g. So, it didn't register any weight gains until they were 3 or 4 days old. By day 10 they ranged from 18-24 grams. By day 14 they were 31-53 grams. By day 21 they ranged from 84-105 grams. They all hit their peak fat baby weight at around 32-35 days old and that ranged from 126-141g. There after they started slowly loosing weight which is normal. In most cases, the goal should be to get as much weight on them before day 35 because after that, stunted or not, they start loosing weight.

I always found dehydration to be a problem with day one quaker babies. Even when fed by the directions on the formula box. I eventually discovered that if I mixed Kaytee Exact formula with 20% Gerber rice cereal flakes, I could feed the formula just a little thicker and it held on to moisture better preventing separation in baby's crops and I could get more calories into them. By day 4 I had them down to 10% Gerber rice cereal and by day 5 or 6 they were on regular kaytee mixed just slightly on the thin side.

I usually kept the brooder quite warm for the first several days. Usually around 97.5 to 98ish. I also kept it plenty humid in there to again prevent dehydration. If babies aren't dehydrated, you can get more calories into them by feeding thicker. Somewhere around day 5 I started dropping the brooder temp a little. Especially if they had a nest mate to snuggle with. Watch body language. If the babies are restless/fidgety and sprawled out flat instead of snuggling, they may be a smidgen too warm. However, they are sensitive to being too cold even by a degree and their digestion will slow down.

I used 1 or 3cc luer slip tipped syringes with a teat infusion cannula used for livestock for the first few days. My hand had better control of the 3cc syringe but you need the kind with .1 or .2 increments. Jorgensen Labs Plastic Teat Infusion Cannula, Fits any Syringe | Jeffers Pet
You might be able to find one from a local farm store.

I feed day one babies when their crop is about 20% full. I let them go empty once a day and I sleep about 4-6 hours at night depending on how tired I am. Their crop empties once a day while I'm sleeping. I didn't record it in my 2010 data but if memory serves most babies took .1-.3 cc for their first feeding which was usually 50:50 water and pedialyte. If that emptied out and the baby produced a dropping, then 45-90 mins later I'd do their first feeding of 80% Kaytee and 20% gerber mixed thin. By the end of day 1 I had a goal that they would eat .3-.5cc per feed. You might need to adjust that to a lower number if your birds are smaller. I also included a little bit of pedialyte in the water used to mix their formula a few times a day for the first few days. Again, dehydration is deadly for day 1 babies and reduces weight gains by forcing you to stick with thin formula and fewer calories.

 

[melissasparrots]

I little bit of air in the crop isn't a big problem. I bigger problem is if they baby's crop is filling with air between feedings or doesn't empty because it is full of air. If that is the case, then you need a trip to the closest avian vet.

 

[Learning89]

Thank you, I am definitely going to use your numbers as a guide. I followed the instructions on the Kaytee hand feeding directions and the day 5 (2 part water and 1 part formula) but he got really sluggish and wasn't giving a feeding response for about six hours so I went back to 3 part water and 1 part formula but he doesn't seem to be gaining weight but he still is active around feeding time. He was dehydrated in his shell so he did need a little help coming out. My concern right now about taking him to the vet is that I don't have a cordless brooder and the closest vet that has any knowledge on birds is 60 miles 1 way.

How do think I could get him to gain weight? A 1 week he is only 5 grams.
Can I put the other baby in there with him?
If I put them together do I just turn the brooder down a little?
What did you use to disinfect the feeding utensils?

Also I have 1 egg left and it has the air cell on the side (due to the momma stepping on it) but it decided to grow. Will it be able to hatch? We are at day 23 and their is still movement in the egg.

Thank you. Sorry for all the questions

 

[melissasparrots]

So the 1 week old, you are feeding him 3 parts water and 1 part formula right? How often is his crop emptying? How much are you giving per feeding? Did he start out at 5 grams and hasn't gained weight or did he start out at 3 and went up to 5? I know blue quakers tend to be a lot smaller, but I don't know how much that impacts hatch weights. If he literally has not gained weight, I might consider a do over with him. Start with getting him well hydrated with a feeding or two of just water and pedialyte mixed. Get him so his crop is totally clear of whatever was previously in it and he's producing droppings(even if its just clear urine and urate). Then do the 80:20 formula with rice formula mixed thin but possibly a little thicker than the 1:6 dilution I think Kaytee recommends. I usually mix it thick enough so that it stays together without separation but is still plenty runny. If you can get about 10% of his body weight into him per feeding and it digests in 3 hours or less mixed thin like that, then you can experiment with thickening it up just a little bit until he's digesting 10-12% of his body weight every 4 hours or so without having his skin turn a brighter shade of red which means dehydration.

If the older one is of questionable health, I'd keep them separate for now. Sometimes brooders have different temperature zones so if the older baby gets to needing a couple degrees lower than the younger one, you might just be able to move him a few inches away and have him more comfortable without actually changing the temperature setting. I don't usually put babies together until they start showing weight gains. Until them I keep them and all their equipment as separate as possible.

Even for older babies, I always felt like Kaytee's maximum recommended thickness was just a little too thick. You want it much thinner for even healthy babies that are less than a week old. I believe that most of my 5-7 day old babies were getting 5-6 meals a day. However, I had a clutch or two that had much poorer weight gains while I was learning. And it took some experience to figure out how to maximize thickness and amount fed without over stretching crops. Small bird species are quite tricky to raise from day one. The rice cereal trick was a suggestion made by one very experienced breeder to another very experienced breeder that had previously raised hyacinths and was having trouble with consistent results raising cockatiels from day one.
My favorite disinfectant was always PetFocus. However, I think there is a new product out now that might be just as good. I can't remember the name though. F-10 possibly? Maybe someone else reading this can say what they use for a syringe soak.

The damaged egg may still hatch. It could be tricky though. If the air cell is just a little off center, then chances are high that it will hatch. If the air cell is fully on the long side of the egg, it may need some help, although I don't feel qualified to offer much assistance without possibly making things worse.

 

[melissasparrots]

For transport to the vet, depending on your bra size you can try putting a kleanex between your breasts and putting the babies in the space between. I've never done that but I've heard of people who have. I don't know. Some hand-warmers might work. I've heard of other people using baked potatoes wrapped in a towel. I went all in when I had to do day ones. I got a brinsea incubator and another brooder that plugged into my car's cigarette lighter. Come to think of it, do they make adapters now that allow regular plug ins to be used in the car? I've heard about such things but never had a use for it. You could also wrap your brinsea up in towels with a temperature probe so you can monitor temp while driving.

 

[Learning89]

The week old one is actually green and to be honest I didn’t weigh him until he was on day 5 but the white one that just hatched weighs 5 grams and he eats every hour to every hour and a half, with a 2 hour empty time for his crop (and so that I can sleep for two straight hours). Yes, he is on 3 parts waters and 1 part formula. I allow his crop to empty once at night within a 3-4 hour feeding gap between eating. For the week old, I have him on every three hours unless he starts peeping before that, then I feed him. I pulled the Pedialyte at day 4. I think that because the first one was the first bird I have ever hand fed I think that my fear of overfilling his crop might have not stretched it out enough at the beginning, maybe. And he is definitely going potty frequently and he seems to be doing fine on the 3 to 1, he just struggles when I up the formula amount. I got the Brinsea TLC eco50 (which is much bigger than I expected.) Will it affect him if I take away some of the formula out of his food?

The damaged egg has officially externally PIPd tonight so, I guess we will see what happens

Thank you!

 

[melissasparrots]

The green one still comes from blue lines, so even though he's green he may still end up being smaller like his sibling. Do you know how much his parents weigh? Not all mutations are smaller.
Focus on trying to get each feeding to about 10-14% of their body weight. My goal is usually to have them eating 10% of their weight at each feed by the end of their first 24 hours. Obviously, some babies are born with smaller crops and it might take a day and a half to get to that point. Once I get them up and running, they might be able to take 12-14% but usually only with their first meal of the day when they are starting on empty. There after when just topping off the crop later in the day, I shoot for 10% assuming they have good crop motility. Again depending on the bird. A basic guideline is to feed until food is going a third or so of the way up their neck. For older babies, that would be over feeding. For day ones, it is necessary to stretch their crop. I don't feed them that full at every meal, but once or twice a day I might with not going past 12-14% of their body weight. I'm convinced crops work partly by gravity and pressure. So the first 80% of the crop will empty faster than the last 20% due to less pressure. Which is why I don't wait until they are completely empty to feed except for that one time at night to clear the system. The more pressure you have in the crop, the more you push through them which means more calories.
When you say he struggles when you up the formula amount, what do you mean? Did you increase the volume fed or the percent of solids in the formula? How does he struggle? If you increase volume or thickness you expect him to take a little longer to empty. If he's pooping, and his color doesn't change to a darker shade it might be okay. In one of your previous posts I think you said he acted listless. Is it possible you over fed him or increased solids too fast for him? Or is it just possible he was sated and content and not fidgeting as much. At one week, I'd expect them to go 3-5 hours between feeds depending on how much and how thick the formula is. It might just be a matter of very slowly increasing thickness and volume until you have him getting close to empty at 4 or 5 hours and maintain him on that. Unless his color or droppings change or he's clearly struggling in some other way.
I would say if I use the rice formula, for the first day I feed the formula with enough solids in it that it doesn't separate but drips off the spoon just a little thicker than water. I slowly thicken it and reduce the percent of rice cereal over the next 7 days or so. I generally do not feed even older babies at the maximum thickness suggested on the formula container. For older babies I might go about the thickness of applesauce maybe a little thinner or thicker than that depending on how the baby is digesting and how old it is. I'm pretty sure that somewhere around 5-7 days I was feeding thick enough and enough volume to have them eating about 5-6 times a day. Usually it would be 5 times a day and then a partial before I went to bed.
Yes, it is exhausting.

 

[Learning89]

I bought them as a bonded pair (they weren't breeding before I got them) and the only information I have is on the dad (green) and its from petco when he was 10 weeks he weighed 86g. The Kaytee formula says that on day 5 switch the bird to 2 parts water and 1 part formula before that I was feeding him 3 parts water and 1 part formula. When we did that I went to work and I had my mother come over to feed him and he was barely moving around and wasn't hungry for almost 6ish hours and wouldn't peep (which usually if you mess with him he will peep a little bit) and he didn't go potty like he usually would. He had me worried. as he has got older he eats between 3-4 hours.
Sorry for all the questions, I work 45 hours a week and do schooling so I am trying to learn so that I can teach a "babysitter" for the times I cant be there myself and I am hopefully showing them correctly.
Have you used the spoons for feeding? how did they work? I am somehow getting air in their crop while feeding so I think I might try the spoonfeeding. Have you ever had to burp your babies? I have read some stuff on that but I am not comfortable enough to do it. Maybe an Idea about what I am doing wrong?
Did you ever find out why your birds were killing the babies when they hatched? because that's what mine did. My boy was eating them when they hatched but they would sit on them until full term.

 

[melissasparrots]

I was just lied to when I got my pair. They were the one and only trade deal I've ever done with birds. The previous owner said they were quiet, 2 years old and great parents. Instead, they are loud, the mother anyway was much older and they came up with a new way to screw up parenting every year I had them. My female just recently died and vet estimated her age age well over 20 with a previous leg break that she probably had before I got her, arthritis and possible heart problems. Basically all old bird related things. They let one chick live but chewed off his toe tips. All others they would "help" too early when the baby externally pipped. They chewed holes in the eggs and the chick wouldn't survive. I never figured out why, I just dealt with it. I tried a different nest box, different cage, staying out of their way etc. I ended up numbering the eggs as they were laid and put them in the incubator on day 19 or 20. It worked well for the most part, but every once in a while she'd lay outside the box and then refuse to incubate period.

I tried using a spoon once on larger babies a few years ago. I just ended up making a mess, losing patience and switching back to a syringe. The other reason I don't spoon feed is because its more difficult to monitor how much you are giving the babies. For very young babies, its easier to get carried away and accidentally give too much, or get worried and consistently not give enough.

Some people burp babies. I feel like its a good way to aspirate them. If they just get a little pocket of air on the top side of the crop while feeding but it goes away later, then I wouldn't worry about it. If its a large pocket of air you can put gentle upward pressure at the base of the bubble and push the air bubble out. Like I said, if you screw it up, you can aspirate and have a dead baby.

For the sluggish baby, you probably increased thickness too fast and like I said, I almost never used full thickness formula as recommended on the label except for nearly weaned babies that only wanted formula every once in a while. Or he could have gotten slightly chilled. Even a degree or two is enough to cause major problems. I'd go with the thickest formula you can get the baby to take and digest well. Day ones can be difficult to transition to thicker formula. Its a slow process and when in doubt, go a little thinner and just feed more often. If your oldest is still emptying every 3-4 hours, it might be time to increase thickness just the tiniest bit. I usually did this by feeding the younger babies first and then prior to feeding the oldest I'd sprinkle a little more formula into what I already had mixed until it was just very slightly thicker. You know you are on the right track when you can do this and it takes just a little longer to digest(closer to 4 or 4.5 hours than 3) and he's pooping and wiggling around the same.

 

[Learning89]

That's crazy because mine (come to find out) are a year old and I bought them off craigslist because these people bought them but they were too loud. they never mentioned eggs but when they decided to lay them the blue one would sit on them all the way up until they hatched and right when they hatched they would start eating them.

My big concern is how to keep the food warm on the spoon while feeding. Maybe I will wait till they are bigger to try them.

The air only occurs when they are fed and I think that it is taking up space in their crop which is minimizing their food intake but when their crop empties, the air is gone. from what I read, it will go away?

I never thought about adding formula too it. I have just been making multiple batches. Thank you, that makes so much sense!

So this morning the last egg hatch and now I have a day old a 3 day old and a weekish old and 1 brooder. Everytime I open it to feed the newest the other two wake up and are hungry. I must have done something wrong because even my oldest is hungry consistently and his crop is emptying and they are going potty like crazy. Food too thin now? Today I switched him to the two part water and 1 part formula for the oldest and the 3 day old is on 3 parts water and 1 formula.
Did you buy them for breeding?

 

[melissasparrots]

Keeping the food warm on a spoon is another reason that I don't use a spoon. Baby quakers are so sensitive to formula temp, that if it cools slightly, they won't digest as well which then makes weight gains difficult.

Since the air is gone when they are empty, I wouldn't worry about it too much so long as you are still able to get 10% of their body weight into each feeding and they are emptying in a timely fashion.

Most healthy babies will wake up and beg if disturbed. You are at an awkward time right now with the youngest baby needing to be fed more frequently than the oldest. If the oldest is still digesting super fast like a young one, then its might be time to increase amount fed up to 10-14% of body weight or increase thickness. If he still has a lot of food in his crop and the youngest is ready for a meal, then I'd just ignore his crying. Sometimes I give them a little bit of affectionate contact or a beak rub which gets a feeding response going because contact and affection are good. Their parents would be grooming them and showing affectionate contact, so sometimes I just touch them even between feeding so long as the brooder can come back up to temp quickly. But I don't feed them if they have half or more of a full crop. I will sometimes top the older babies off though before bedtime or before work so I can go longer without feeding. And as I said, the longer you can keep food in the crop under some pressure, the more calories you get into the babies. Just don't over do so they don't get empty or to the point you can't estimate how much they already have in their crop and end up over stretching.

You may or may not find that a sudden jump from 3 parts water to two parts water is too fast. If the baby is past being ready for thicker formula then it may go well. Otherwise, you may find that you need to work your way up by doing 2.75 parts water and then the next day 2.5 parts water, and a few days later 2 parts water. I usually do a slower progression than a sudden jump unless the baby is doing exceptionally well.

Are you seeing weight gains yet? You should definitely be seeing the oldest start to take off by now and gaining a few grams every day.

I got my quakers intending to breed but see how it goes. I was a little non-committal with them because every quaker I'd ever met was noisy and out of control cage territorial. I kept mine despite their lousy parenting because the only people interested in them were breeders who were inexperienced in raising day ones. I felt there would be considerable loss of life if they went to someone else who continually tried breeding them without the skills to raise the babies. Such people would then be prone to giving the pair to someone else and repeating the death cycle. The parents had zero redeeming qualities as pets, so I just accept the noise and live with it. They are not my favorite species to live with. However you will find that baby quakers are absolutely the sweetest things on earth and give the best kisses. Mine were also screaming maniacs and as sweet as they were, I was always a little relieved when I finally got them into good homes.

 

[melissasparrots]

I went back through an old photo album of baby quakers.
The ones in this link are 7-10 days old

This one is a 36 day old baby with some 5-7 day old siblings

These ones are 15 and 13 days old

This one is 4 days old

This one is 15 days old

 

[Learning89]

he has gained 2 grams since yesterday and I have officially upped him 2 parts water and one part formula.

They are sooo cute!! They do look a lot bigger than mine though!

Maybe I am just paranoid about the air in the crop thing. First time bird mom and all.

This is my oldest



The one on the left was born on Wednesday at 2 AM and the one on the right is my oldest

And this one hatched at 11 am yesterday

 

[melissasparrots]

These ones are 2-8 days old

These ones are 7-15 days old immediately post feeding

This one shows my left side esophagus baby immediately after eating and including an air bubble. I didn't have this one labeled with an age but he was less than a week old.

 

[Learning89]

Can you see the air?