What can I offer a bird?

[flyzipper]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on the attached decision tree.

Anything that strikes you is welcome:

• comments on the initial question and its value (or lack)
• thoughts about where it could be used (or shouldn't be)
• what's missing ("money" is implied throughout, but not explicitly noted, for example)
• what should be removed or consolidated
• what you disagree with
• how it could be simplified or expanded
• whether people who are new to birds would understand what's being stated
• I love/hate the colours
• it's not very legible with site scaling or on my device
• "I couldn't offer all of those at the beginning (or even now), and this list doesn't seem to accommodate growing into the relationship"
• "Hey Steve, it comes across as elitist"
• whatever...

Thanks.

​

 

[Sparkles99]

Time should be at the very top. Everyone talks about the elusive ‘forever home’, but precious few people provide one for any species.

This could be easily adapted for a variety of animals.

 

[WikiWaz]

This is wonderful. By "harmful habits" do you mean things like indoor tobacco use?

I feel like health of caregiver is important too. Like someone with a dander allergy should think twice about getting a bird.

And "previous experience" does limit those new to parrot care. I do understand that for many larger species, previous experience is important.

 

[WikiWaz]

This is wonderful. By "harmful habits" do you mean things like indoor tobacco use?

I feel like health of caregiver is important too. Like someone with a dander allergy should think twice about getting a bird.

And "previous experience" does limit those new to parrot care. I do understand that for many larger species, previous experience is important.

And beak size of different parrots an issue to consider?

 

[Greylady1966]

Steve, on the 4th line what would choice cover? Thanks

 

[Zara]

choice

I´m not sure but I think that is about being able to offer choice to the bird rather than forcing what the human wants. Examples could be having multiple places to play and the bird can choose where to go. Multiple food and water bowls. Access to bathe when they choose. Not being forced to sit on a shoulder watching TV. Being flighted.

@flyzipper You could maybe add ¨waste¨ to tolerance. To be able to tolerate the bird not eating those expensive veggies. Not eating the pellets. Flinging food rather than eating it. Pooping on food. Not touching/pooping on the expensive toy. Not playing on a stand bought for them.

I´m not sure if this should be under communication or love, but I think Respect should be added to one of those lines. Being able to respect a bird is a important factor in bird husbandry IMO alongside the commitment.

Bird toys is important, though I don´t know where that falls on your chart. Buying appropriate toys for the bird, having a good selection, rotating them in and out, adding new ones.

And "previous experience" does limit those new to parrot care. I do understand that for many larger species, previous experience is important.

Some people get a large parrot having not owned a bird before and really go above and beyond and make great parrot owners. So it´s hard to bundle everybody into one category or the other.

"I couldn't offer all of those at the beginning (or even now),

Well... ¨lifetime commitment¨, I guess we only know when our birds pass away that we have acheived that.
¨appropriate cage¨ - I certainly did not have this when I first brought home my first bird. I had him in an 18x18 for a year and a bit, back then flight cages were borderline impossible to find where I am. I think it is a common thing that people regret, or don´t know when starting out if they don´t visit sites like this and talk to folks in the bird community.
Another box I didn´t check, ¨neighbours¨, I won´t lie, I was very selfish and just brought home my bird without consulting them. He was quiet. As I acquired more birds, it was never something I asked them about. I don´t know what they think of the noise, but I do send them christmas cards yearly and stay friendly with them.

So yea, I definitely did not check all the boxes before getting a bird, nor do I now. But I do find it a good guide

 

[WikiWaz]

I´m not sure but I think that is about being able to offer choice to the bird rather than forcing what the human wants. Examples could be having multiple places to play and the bird can choose where to go. Multiple food and water bowls. Access to bathe when they choose. Not being forced to sit on a shoulder watching TV. Being flighted.

I´m not sure if this should be under communication or love, but I think Respect should be added to one of those lines. Being able to respect a bird is a important factor in bird husbandry IMO alongside the commitment.

I really like the word "Respect", I feel like it goes well with "Choice."

 

[WikiWaz]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on the attached decision tree.

Anything that strikes you is welcome:

• it's not very legible with site scaling or on my device

​

I did had to zoom in to read it on my laptop, but that's okay I find it very thorough.

 

[flyzipper]

Time should be at the very top.

I agree it should be near the top -- this ended up being a brain-dump with little reorganization

By "harmful habits" do you mean things like indoor tobacco use?
I feel like health of caregiver is important too. Like someone with a dander allergy should think twice about getting a bird.
And "previous experience" does limit those new to parrot care. I do understand that for many larger species, previous experience is important.

That's what I meant by "harmful habits" yes, but could also include things like burning candles and using scents, or even physical violence now that I'm thinking of it.
I like the health of the caregiver aspect, and will think about how that could be included.
Previous experience is an example of the glaring weakness of this model as it stands -- it's not intended to be a binary pass/fail, that any negative response punts to "don't get a bird" -- more on that below.

And beak size of different parrots an issue to consider?

Perhaps, but I chose "tolerance" as a heading for a reason -- that's a spectrum, and some might tolerate budge beaks while others are cool with a macaw.

Steve, on the 4th line what would choice cover?

@Zara did a great job explaining what I meant.
Henry Ford famously said, "Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants, so long as it is black", and I thought "independence" carried little weight is there was no actual "choice" offered.

add ¨waste¨ to tolerance.

Good one.

I think Respect should be added

Good one.

Bird toys is important, though I don´t know where that falls on your chart.

I thought of toys as falling under "enrichment", but that's another weakness of this model -- the devil is in the details for many of these things and a single word doesn't always cut it.

So yea, I definitely did not check all the boxes before getting a bird, nor do I now. But I do find it a good guide

A significant weakness of this model (to me) is what I said earlier about not intending it to be a pass/fail thing for most items (it should be a guide, as you said). A next iteration will need a way of conveying which items are requirements (security, for example), and which are a spectrum (tolerance, as I said is highly varied, and knowledge... because we're all constantly learning).

I'd also like it be encompassing, while not being overly daunting -- illustrating to people there's a lot going on with keeping birds (and as @Sparkles99 said... a variety of animal companions). "What can I offer a bird", to me is the opposite side of the same coin as, "what does a bird need", but focuses the delivery of those things on the human caregiver as their responsibility. Yes, a bird needs to exercise, but the human needs to allow and enable it, for example.

 

[flyzipper]

Some updates, but not much reorganization (will do that as the content solidifies).

• Added "ability" and "willingness" to the Time & Effort section to encompass the feedback about caregiver health.
• Added "respect" to the Love section
• Made Socialization its own section (was under Mental Health section)
• Split Environment into two sections, Macro Environment (our homes) and Micro Environment (their homes within our homes) -- might change those labels to make them more clear.
• Changed the final outcomes of the decision tree about the bird's happiness rather than whether people should or shouldn't get a bird. This may address the binary pass/fail aspect I mentioned earlier, and also makes the guide applicable to people who already have a bird. No sure about "happy", but it's a possibility.
• Added tentative boxes about lighting and access to outdoors (I always knew that was important, but I recently read a comment that went something like, "imagine you could never go outside and feel the sun on your face or a breeze on your skin", and it's lit a fire under my butt to get this figured out for my guys... Oscar lifting a foot toward the outside when we're looking out a window motivates me to make it easier as well).
• ... and few other things I should have tracked better than I did.
• ... still thinking about how to simplify or otherwise increase usability.
• ... legibility is horrible, will deal with that in a later formatting stage,

​

 

[FiatLux]

Oh how I wish that “young children absent or managed” was not the first thing I saw on this chart —crestfallen I think is the word for how that made me feel. I always look forward to your posts because they are thoughtful, well researched and considerate. This phrasing feels like a deeply deficit based read on the impact of children on the happiness of birds. I can assume your positive intent but as a parent whose conure’s happiness seems to me to be amplified by her young children’s presence, I don’t think the impact is what you want. At least I hope it’s not. I understand that you stated managed as a modifier of absent but that too feels far less kind and positive than the intent behind the initial decision tree. I may have missed the rich learning opportunity in this effort you made had I not enough positive experience with your previous post to know that this may just have been a less than generous choice of words. I hope you know this is coming from respect and is meant with kindness. Please consider reframing and rephrasing.

 

[FeatheredM]

How about time? Because I know that many poeple lack enough time to own a bird. Also all family must be in agreement, because you definitely don't want a parent that won't help out, and dump all responsibilities on the kid. Or the kid wants bird, parent doesn't want bird but gets one anyway and bird ends up rehomed or neglected situation.

 

[FeatheredM]

Oh how I wish that “young children absent or managed” was not the first thing I saw on this chart —crestfallen I think is the word for how that made me feel. I always look forward to your posts because they are thoughtful, well researched and considerate. This phrasing feels like a deeply deficit based read on the impact of children on the happiness of birds. I can assume your positive intent but as a parent whose conure’s happiness seems to me to be amplified by her young children’s presence, I don’t think the impact is what you want. At least I hope it’s not. I understand that you stated managed as a modifier of absent but that too feels far less kind and positive than the intent behind the initial decision tree. I may have missed the rich learning opportunity in this effort you made had I not enough positive experience with your previous post to know that this may just have been a less than generous choice of words. I hope you know this is coming from respect and is meant with kindness. Please consider reframing and rephrasing.

I'm kind of in agreement. I don't think that parents should get a bird for their kids unless they are fully ready to take on full responsibilities if their kid gets uninterested or goes to college. But if a parent gets a bird for themselves, and let's kids help, it both enriching for the kid and the bird. The bird receives socialization with someone smaller, and the kid grows up with proper knowledge and love for animals. (Which is great considering that many poeple don't know about proper animal care)Of course I would not let a kid be with a bigger bird like a cockatoo, macaw, Amazon because they can hurt a kid.

 

[flyzipper]

crestfallen I think is the word for how that made me feel.

I take your point, and can understand how it may have landed that way -- I appreciate the feedback.

“young children absent or managed” ... Please consider reframing and rephrasing

I'm open to suggestions.

In order for it to be useful, a guide like this can't alienate people, but I'm also striving for a fairly comprehensive list.

That attribute is coming from a place of seeing birds that are injured by young children, seeing larger birds that injure young children, birds that escape because a child opened a door when they shouldn't have, birds that are rehomed when children arrive on the scene, etc. I'm not blaming the children in those cases any more than I'm blaming cats or dogs that injure birds (that could land poorly too), but I do think there's some sort of risk that's present and that an adult needs to be aware of and manage.

I'm sure smokers could take offense at the suggestion their habit isn't good for their birds, but that doesn't mean their bad habit shouldn't be noted.

Offending will drive people away from a list like this and make it less useful, so again... I'm open to suggestions.

What would land better with parents?

Signed,
A single guy that has no direct experience or skin in that game.

 

[WikiWaz]

@flyzipper - I appreciate this and the work you've put into it. Though it's more work and would make the chart more complicated, perhaps a "Maybe" can be added to the Yes/No to make it less binary. For example, "Previous Bird Experience" could have a branch that if person has not had previous experience, the maybe could be "interested individual has volunteered at parrot shelter, or spent ample time researching and spending time around desired parrot. Please see x, y, z of chart."

 

[Wardy]

I think it's a really good idea and could see the benefit for someone considering a bird for the first time however they may not understand ( Enrichment ) for exaample would there be further detail to explain added later ?
I would disagree with previous experiece as a requirement i had none 14 months ago has been a massive learning curve and at times challenging and i dont doubt the next 14 months will be the same.

I was unable to read the chart on my mobile device had to use a laptop and struggled reading with those colours.

 

[Zara]

I would disagree with previous experiece as a requirement i had none 14 months ago has been a massive learning curve and at times challenging and i dont doubt the next 14 months will be the same.

Plus, you can research ´til your head falls off but it will always be a learning curve actually living with a bird for the first time.
I´m still learning stuff now years later.... I think it will always be like that, a constant learning experience, and it´s not a bad thing