Urgent Weird sound accompanied with body shake

[Birdlady20]

So several months ago my green-cheek conure started making this sound that sounds like coughing accompanied by body shaking. I took him to the vet and the vet did an x-ray where he thought that his spleen was enlarged and something going on with the respiratory so he gave me a course of antibiotics. I did the course of antibiotics and it seemed to help because he stopped making that noise. But then less than two weeks later it started up again so I took him back to the vet. I went to a different vet I'm that same hospital and she told me that she did not see an enlarged spleen at all but she saw what might be some type of mass so again she gave me another course of antibiotics and we decided to see if that would help and then go from there so that was a couple months ago and with the second course of antibiotics the noise and body shaking completely stopped for over 2 months until today, it started up again. I am very frustrated. Does anyone have any insight on this? These vets don't seem to be much help I'm trying to post a video but it's not working. It says it does not have the allowed extension. Can someone tell me what that means? Thanks!

 

[Shezbug]

You will not be able to directly post videos on the site but you can add a link to you tube or fb etc

 

[Birdlady20]

So several months ago my green-cheek conure started making this sound that sounds like coughing accompanied by body shaking. I took him to the vet and the vet did an x-ray where he thought that his spleen was enlarged and something going on with the respiratory so he gave me a course of antibiotics. I did the course of antibiotics and it seemed to help because he stopped making that noise. But then less than two weeks later it started up again so I took him back to the vet. I went to a different vet I'm that same hospital and she told me that she did not see an enlarged spleen at all but she saw what might be some type of mass so again she gave me another course of antibiotics and we decided to see if that would help and then go from there so that was a couple months ago and with the second course of antibiotics the noise and body shaking completely stopped for over 2 months until today, it started up again. I am very frustrated. Does anyone have any insight on this? These vets don't seem to be much help I'm trying to post a video but it's not working. It says it does not have the allowed extension. Can someone tell me what that means? Thanks!

Video link

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10158069115024224&id=509654223

 

[Birdlady20]

So several months ago my green-cheek conure started making this sound that sounds like coughing accompanied by body shaking. I took him to the vet and the vet did an x-ray where he thought that his spleen was enlarged and something going on with the respiratory so he gave me a course of antibiotics. I did the course of antibiotics and it seemed to help because he stopped making that noise. But then less than two weeks later it started up again so I took him back to the vet. I went to a different vet I'm that same hospital and she told me that she did not see an enlarged spleen at all but she saw what might be some type of mass so again she gave me another course of antibiotics and we decided to see if that would help and then go from there so that was a couple months ago and with the second course of antibiotics the noise and body shaking completely stopped for over 2 months until today, it started up again. I am very frustrated. Does anyone have any insight on this? These vets don't seem to be much help I'm trying to post a video but it's not working. It says it does not have the allowed extension. Can someone tell me what that means? Thanks!

Video link

 

[Birdlady20]

You will not be able to directly post videos on the site but you can add a link to you tube or fb etc

I uploaded a YouTube video and posted link so you can get a better idea of what he is doing.

 

[Shezbug]

There’s not many members online at the moment and I am totally unfamiliar with anything green cheek....
@webchirp has a massive flock of cheekies and I believe @Mockinbirdiva knows a bit about them too.
Keep checking back, you’re bound to have some sound opinions and advice within a few hours
How does your bird seem other than making these sounds?

 

[Mizzely]

@enigma731 @Hankmacaw any ideas?

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

I've never seen that before but it does seem to be respiratory distress/ coughing. I don't see any discharge from his nares but have you seen any? Does he do that all the time or are there spans of time he doesn't do that while he's not on the antibiotics. Are these regular veterinarians or certified avian vets? Where are you located Liz so we can give you a list of qualified vets in or around your area. Other questions: do you use candles, essential oils or any cleaning products that may be harmful, teflon pans, incense, smoking. What do you clean his cage with, what is his exact diet, and exactly what are the antibiotics you've had him on. How old is he? Do you run ceiling fans? I can see he's flighted so I would guess not but have to ask. Where is his cage located in your home? Has he had any spray baths and if so what do you use exactly to do that? Photos would help and I think you did a great job capturing this behavior.

 

[Mockinbirdiva]

Couple more things.. did either of the vets you saw draw blood for testing? If they did, get those results and post them here. If not it needs to be done. How can they know which antibiotic is needed without tests? If they are not avian vets and are stumped by what may be wrong ask them to contact a certified avian vet for assistance ( if there aren't any in your area) and have them forward the x-rays for a radiologist that specializes in birds. Try to get the ball rolling until you can locate someone who knows avian medicine and not have to put him through the same things if it doesn't have to be done to reduce stress.

Think back to prior this starting. Were there any changes that could possibly affect him. I think I hear another bird in the background ( I've watched this video five times). Are there other birds? Did you add them to your home prior to him having this problem? What species are they? Is this bird kept with another bird in the same cage? Have you shared human food with him while you are eating? ( saliva transfer?) Are there other pets in the house? Anyone in your home use a vaping device?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions but it's necessary to help find a possible root of a problem. The bottom line is he needs more than what he's getting from your vets because the issue isn't resolved or solved.

Just wanted to mention... since it is the weeeee hours of the morning I won't be back until much later in day but there are some awesome people who will pop in to help.

 

[mythic55]

Im half asleep, so I apologize if this is short. I agree with Monkin above.,

If the antibiotics gram positive or negative, etc seemed to work for a short time- then respiratory is most liking the culprit. But question is is it environmental (chemical is my guess), viral or bacterial. Some birds (and humans) have different 'coughs' or 'sneezes'. But that pattern is dramatic, and long-
How long do these last? and how often?

However when I look at that video, it could be minor neurological or otherwise that is exhasterbating the irritation. Neurological is a much different thing to diagnose- it could be something as a 'learned' stress pathway in which when the trigeminal nerve is irritated (reoccurring infection or environmental factor) so it has become habit to resemble a minor idiopathic epilepsy with uncontrolled movements.

Any issues flying or with balance?

 

[enigma731]

I don't really have anything to add, I think others have covered it well. Bloodwork would be my next move if you haven't done it already.

 

[Hankmacaw]

@Mockinbirdiva and @mythic55 Have pretty much covered the information needed. Most important is, has either of your vets performed a CBC and Chem Panel? Did either of them do a fecal and throat swab? You need the results of these tests to point your vet in the right direction to find out what is wrong with your bird.

If your bird has had two rounds of antibiotics with temporary relief, it is likely that she has an infection that the antibiotic given was not the right one. There are hundreds of different microbes and hundreds of antibiotics - not all microbes are sensitive to all antibiotics and not all antibiotics effective against all microbes. In the case of your bird I would go right to having a culture and sensitivity performed. This will identify the bacteria/fungus and which specific medications it is sensitive to.

There is definitely something very wrong with your baby.

 

[Birdlady20]

Thank you everyone for the replies. Will try to cover all the questions. So, I do take him to avain certified vets. The place I go to is called North star vets in Robbinsville/Allentown, NJ. This place is highly recommended which is why I'm confused as to why it seems no one has seen this before in other birds. It had one of the best highly recommended avain vet whom we used to see but is now retired.

Bloodwork was done. Showed high cholesterol and I can't recall if it was slightly high or low white blood cell count. Which I believe is connected to inflammation or infection. Vets don't see any visible respiratory issues. Diet is in transition. He still eats seeds but also lots of fruits, some veg, some whole grains... Yes he is fully flighted, he shares a room with two fully flighted female cockatiels. They each have their own cage but are not caged throughout the day. They have reign over a bird friendly room. His flying is normal. I don't see any balance issues. His behavior otherwise is normal, eating fine drinking etc. No essential oils, no smoking or vaping, no teflon pans, nothing harmful like that. Age is unknown but I have had him since June 2010. He takes regular baths in a stainless steel bowl.
So the first time he started doing this, it was in periods. He would do it and then it would stop sometimes for hours and then do it again. The second time he started doing it it was consistent and wouldnt stop throughout the whole day and next so back to vet, second round of antibiotics. Last night when I came home from work he was doing it, that's the video I have attached. I was gonna take him to the vet but he stopped after a few minutes and didn't do it again. This morning, he hasn't done it yet.

 

[Birdlady20]

I would like to add that he likes to play with a roll of paper towels. He is very territorial with it and lately has been regurgitating his food on it so I have taken it away. Possible connection. I make sure to purchase the unbleached, natural rolls, not the chemical ones but I'm wondering if there is a connection. He has played and shredded them for years.

Also, no nasal discharge.

 

[Hankmacaw]

It appears that you are down to getting a culture and sensitivity and trying to determine (most likely from xrays) if she has become impacted from eating the paper towels. A bird will develop infections from impaction. Try giving her almond butter for a few days to see if it pushes something through her digestive system.

I'm concerned that the vet said she saw a mass and didn't follow up on it. Where was the mass located.

And definitely get her back to a vet and insist on a diagnosis - she's sick.

 

[Birdlady20]

I've never seen that before but it does seem to be respiratory distress/ coughing. I don't see any discharge from his nares but have you seen any? Does he do that all the time or are there spans of time he doesn't do that while he's not on the antibiotics. Are these regular veterinarians or certified avian vets? Where are you located Liz so we can give you a list of qualified vets in or around your area. Other questions: do you use candles, essential oils or any cleaning products that may be harmful, teflon pans, incense, smoking. What do you clean his cage with, what is his exact diet, and exactly what are the antibiotics you've had him on. How old is he? Do you run ceiling fans? I can see he's flighted so I would guess not but have to ask. Where is his cage located in your home? Has he had any spray baths and if so what do you use exactly to do that? Photos would help and I think you did a great job capturing this behavior.

I have replied below with more details. I forgot to answer some questions. He bathes in just water. His cage is located in a bedroom upstairs. The other two birds are not new. My one cockatiel has been here for 8 years and the youngest for 3 years. I do not not run the ceiling fan as they are not caged. The antibiotic was Enrofloxacin. I clean his cage with lemon mixed with water.

 

[Birdlady20]

It appears that you are down to getting a culture and sensitivity and trying to determine (most likely from xrays) if she has become impacted from eating the paper towels. A bird will develop infections from impaction. Try giving her almond butter for a few days to see if it pushes something through her digestive system.

I'm concerned that the vet said she saw a mass and didn't follow up on it. Where was the mass located.

And definitely get her back to a vet and insist on a diagnosis - she's sick.

I don't believe that he is eating the paper towels. Just shredding them. But I'm concerned maybe from the dust that paper towels might emit?

Both vets and radiologist could not tell with certainty what they are seeing on thr xray so she said the follow up would have been a cat scan and we both decided we would not put him though that and to monitor him after the second course of antibiotics. So i was very happy when he was doing fine for the last 2 months. I do not want to put him thru the stress of anesthesia and a cat scan. I dont think it's worth it....but I believe I have to take him back for another x ray to see if it looks the same as the last one or has changed.

 

[Hankmacaw]

Cat Scans are without any doubt "worth it". Anesthesia is a blessing for diagnostic procedures and there is nothing scary about it. Your bird will wake up from anesthesia, be a little drunk for a few minutes then act as if nothing has happened. He will be tired the following day and nap a lot.

You do need to find out about that suspected mass. Where was it located?

 

[Birdlady20]

Cat Scans are without any doubt "worth it". Anesthesia is a blessing for diagnostic procedures and there is nothing scary about it. Your bird will wake up from anesthesia, be a little drunk for a few minutes then act as if nothing has happened. He will be tired the following day and nap a lot.

You do need to find out about that suspected mass. Where was it located?

Hmmm, I was told about the risks with small birds and anesthesia which led me to believe it's a risk and stress to the bird I didn't want to take..might have to research this more

I have an appointment for Tuesday morning so will defintely repeat xray and talk about a cat scan again. Will also ask for copy of bloodwork to post here.

Thanks again for replies. Will keep everyone posted

 

[Birdlady20]

Hmmm, I was told about the risks with small birds and anesthesia which led me to believe it's a risk and stress to the bird I didn't want to take..might have to research this more

I have an appointment for Tuesday morning so will defintely repeat xray and talk about a cat scan again. Will also ask for copy of bloodwork to post here.

Thanks again for replies. Will keep everyone posted

I have yet to hear him make that sound today so if it starts back up again and he seems distressed, I will have to take him through emergency since my appointment is only Tuesday...