Washer/dryer in bird room, or go to laundromat?

[Bree]

The tiny place I am renting has the washer and dryer hookups in the bedroom for some reason. This is also where the birds are since they cannot (I have been told) be kept in the living room where the gas heater is. I sleep in the loft above the living room.

What are your thoughts on the safety of operating a washer and dryer in the same room as the birds? I am worrying about possible PTFE fumes with the dryer? I could easily switch to unscented detergents and fabric softening sheets if necessary. Any other safety concerns?

The closest laundromat is a few miles away in a neighboring town, and while I could continue to go there it would be much more convenient and much more cost-effective to have my own. The dryers there are old and take ages (and multiple payments) to dry even small loads! It takes about 4 hours and $10 in machine costs to do only 3 small loads of laundry.

Of course, I want to be safe... Am I over-thinking this?

 

[expressmailtome]

My worry would be the same as yours with the dryer. Also, just because a detergent is unscented does not mean that there are not toxic chemicals in it that give off fumes. It only means that you will not smell the chemicals.

Matt

 

[JLcribber]

A properly installed dryer must be vented to the outside. Is yours not? Is it electric or gas?

A dryer would never reach a high enough temperature to off gas any Teflon. I've never seen one that even had any Teflon in it.

 

[Archiesmom]

I don't really know...I just think about the air quality. To me, it would make the air really dry. Maybe an air purifier/humidifer or something? I'm paranoid about such things, so I wouldn't do it personally. I'd take my stuff to the laundromat and use the time to get some peace and quiet in

 

[expressmailtome]

A properly installed dryer must be vented to the outside. Is yours not? Is it electric or gas?

A dryer would never reach a high enough temperature to off gas any Teflon. I've never seen one that even had any Teflon in it.

Thank you! I did not know that they would not give off fumes if properly installed.

Matt

 

[Sunnyside]

Mine are in my bird room, it is properly vented and I have never had any issues. Well, I do have issues, but not with fumes....I was ANGRY ANGRY when I made this video so please excuse my hostility. I just hate being ripped off all the time...

 

[ParrotsforKeeps]

I would not be worried about the washer or dryer themselves, provided they are working well and not brand new, but you are right that the fumes from the laundry detergents and fabric softeners are very bad. They are bad enough just as the residue on our clothes, but I think you are risking a lot to use them in the room with the parrots. You can get safe detergent and fabric softener, though. Many companies make them, seventh generation is one I know and completely trust to be safe and effective. I believe Coco ha done a review of them on her blog, and it is the company my family has always used.

I would also clean the dryer well and run it a few times without the birds to help get rid of at least some fo the fragrance and chemical residues in it.

I think in the long run you might notice improvements yourself after switching to a safer detergent- many people do. What goes into most standard mass brands is not regulated nor do the ingredients have to be disclosed to anyone. When a lab or chemist takes it upon themselves to test, the number of highly regulated chemicals (or highly regulated by themselves, talk about a loophole!), known toxins, carcinogens, etc, found in them is quite disturbing.

 

[Anne & Gang]

if those fumes are bad enough from the detergents and fabric softeners that you can smell them, then they definitely would affect the birds..why can't you have the birds in the room with the gas heater? I worked for a fireplace manufacturer and gas is considered one of the safest....is yours not yearly inspected etc? and maintained..if it isnt, it is probably not safe for you either.

 

[JLcribber]

if those fumes are bad enough from the detergents and fabric softeners that you can smell them, then they definitely would affect the birds..why can't you have the birds in the room with the gas heater? I worked for a fireplace manufacturer and gas is considered one of the safest....is yours not yearly inspected etc? and maintained..if it isnt, it is probably not safe for you either.

It's the same as the dryer. A "properly" installed gas heater "must" be vented to the outside. No fumes are allowed to enter the room. If they do you are just as much at risk as the birds. They are safe if properly installed.

 

[Bree]

Thank you all for your thoughts. I will definitely need to look into a safer detergent and fabric softener choice... Not just unscented but safe. Thank you for pointing that out!

A properly installed dryer must be vented to the outside. Is yours not? Is it electric or gas?

A dryer would never reach a high enough temperature to off gas any Teflon. I've never seen one that even had any Teflon in it.

I don't currently have a dryer, just the hookups. It is for an electric dryer and, yes, there is a vent to go outside that would be hooked up if I got one. That is good to know that PTFE would not be a concern!

why can't you have the birds in the room with the gas heater? I worked for a fireplace manufacturer and gas is considered one of the safest....is yours not yearly inspected etc? and maintained..if it isnt, it is probably not safe for you either.

That is a mystery to me as well, and I have not been able to get straight answers... It is an unvented wall-mounted gas heater, max 30,000 BTU/hr. The manufacturer never replied to my inquiries and the folks at Lowe's could only give me "in my experience" type answers and were not sure specifically about safety with birds. They did say it was a little on the large side for the size of house it is, but as long as it wasn't in the bedroom I should be safe and that gas heaters are very safe, etc. A relative who has a similar model in his shop said that I should keep the birds in the bedroom away from the heater and crack a window anytime it is running because there are some slight fumes, and that I should take care not to fall asleep in the living room with it on. I am dreading winter because I'm scared to turn the darn thing on! I am not sure about its maintenance history as I just began renting the place. The previous tenant had a baby in the bedroom who was apparently fine, so I feel that is the safest place for the birds ATM.

ETA: The man from the gas company who turned on the gas also said that I would smell some slight fumes when I entered the house because it is an unvented model. I expressed my concern about this, but he said that he has known people who heated their houses with similar styles and had all kinds of pets that were fine. Still worrisome to me... I don't even want to smell the fumes myself! Doesn't seem healthy???

Since you've worked in the field, what are your thoughts on the safety of an unvented gas heater with regard to birds?

It's the same as the dryer. A "properly" installed gas heater "must" be vented to the outside. No fumes are allowed to enter the room. If they do you are just as much at risk as the birds. They are safe if properly installed.

This is an unvented model. It seems a strange way to heat a house... Seems like more of a garage/shop type of heater to me!

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

I have a propane heater in my birdroom. It is vented and properly maintained and have had absolutely no problems with it. I suggest you check out the website for the heater's manufacturer and perhaps also the UL listing for the heater. UL is a great source of safety and health information. If there is no brand name on the outside of the heater, there should be a model number and name on the inside front cover.

A friend of mine had an unvented propane heater they used a lot. When ever I visited them in the winter when it was on, I always got a terrible headache and my asthma acted up. I asked my pulmonologist about my symptoms, he he advised me to tell the friends they had a carbon monoxide problem. Sure enough, testing showed a CO problem and they had to find alternate heating sources for their patio room.

You can test the air quality yourself. You can also get a carbon monoxide monitor like I have in the birdroom. To avoid the dry air problems of using propane heat, I have a waterfall in my birdroom I run all winter and into the spring. As soon as I turn the heat on for the year, I restart the waterfall. It has a tendency to get gunky and grow bacteria and algae in the summer, so I don't let it run in the summer. Besides, it gets humid enough here in the summer without adding to it!

 

[JLcribber]

An un-vented gas heater is illegal (at least here in Canada). Open gas flame puts out Carbon monoxide which is poisonous to everyone in the house. It should never be used by anyone. It would kill your birds very quickly.

 

[Laurul Feather Cat]

John, there are a new type of unvented gas heaters which can be used like in basements or some place one cannot provide a vent for exhaust. They rely on a new burner technology which is super efficient in burning the combustible gas and also a chemical and pipe system that runs the 'exhaust' through a scrubber that removes and sequesters the carbon dioxide and monoxide. The original prototype heater was developed for NASA for use on the moon colonies and space ships, actually. The technology is very reliable, but you have to keep the heaters in top condition and change the filters and substrate for the scrubbers religiously. My friends were not maintaining their heater properly. However, you are correct, it is illegal to install and unvented regular heater; doing that is a death sentence.

I looked up my propane heater on UL when the heating company first gave me the name of the furnace they proposed putting in and got a lot of info about it and found that this type of heater is what a lot of bird breeders in Florida and the southern states use to heat their aviaries during cold snaps and winters. There were even testimonials from two of the breeders. Made me feel better about puting a gas heater in an aviary.

 

[JLcribber]

John, there are a new type of unvented gas heaters which can be used like in basements or some place one cannot provide a vent for exhaust. They rely on a new burner technology which is super efficient in burning the combustible gas and also a chemical and pipe system that runs the 'exhaust' through a scrubber that removes and sequesters the carbon dioxide and monoxide. The original prototype heater was developed for NASA for use on the moon colonies and space ships, actually. The technology is very reliable, but you have to keep the heaters in top condition and change the filters and substrate for the scrubbers religiously. My friends were not maintaining their heater properly. However, you are correct, it is illegal to install and unvented regular heater; doing that is a death sentence.

I looked up my propane heater on UL when the heating company first gave me the name of the furnace they proposed putting in and got a lot of info about it and found that this type of heater is what a lot of bird breeders in Florida and the southern states use to heat their aviaries during cold snaps and winters. There were even testimonials from two of the breeders. Made me feel better about puting a gas heater in an aviary.

Very interesting. Never heard of them so thanks for enlightening me. There's none of those around here (yet anyway). They must be very pricey at this point too?

 

[itzmered]

We have a vent free gas wall furnace in our cabin. I was freaked out about it when the guys bought it and installed it. I borrowed a pretty high tech carbon monoxide detector from work that was calibrated on a regular basis. We ran the furnace for several days up there and I checked it frequently and was very happy to find out that it picked up no detectable CO levels. I still bought a really good carbon monoxide detector and have it set up right by it in the same room. I very seldom take the birds up there during cold weather but I dont want to chance it with our lives either

 

[Bree]

An un-vented gas heater is illegal (at least here in Canada). Open gas flame puts out Carbon monoxide which is poisonous to everyone in the house. It should never be used by anyone. It would kill your birds very quickly.

This is what I thought as well, and why I have been so worried about it.

I have been reassured by some that it is safe, but warned by others to be very careful. The manufacturers themselves however have not responded to my questions. This is the website about their vent-free heaters: http://www.usaprocom.com/vent-free.php

John, there are a new type of unvented gas heaters which can be used like in basements or some place one cannot provide a vent for exhaust. They rely on a new burner technology which is super efficient in burning the combustible gas and also a chemical and pipe system that runs the 'exhaust' through a scrubber that removes and sequesters the carbon dioxide and monoxide. The original prototype heater was developed for NASA for use on the moon colonies and space ships, actually. The technology is very reliable, but you have to keep the heaters in top condition and change the filters and substrate for the scrubbers religiously. My friends were not maintaining their heater properly. However, you are correct, it is illegal to install and unvented regular heater; doing that is a death sentence.

I looked up my propane heater on UL when the heating company first gave me the name of the furnace they proposed putting in and got a lot of info about it and found that this type of heater is what a lot of bird breeders in Florida and the southern states use to heat their aviaries during cold snaps and winters. There were even testimonials from two of the breeders. Made me feel better about puting a gas heater in an aviary.

That sounds better! I will check out the UL site tomorrow, thank you! Just about to turn in for the night.

I wonder if I should have someone out to service it before I need it, and they could check and make sure everything is working properly and that it really is safe for this tiny house. One thing I did read in the manual is that it is not supposed to be used as a primary source of heat, only supplemental, but it is the primary heat source for this house.

I did buy a new CO and gas detector for the living room, and there was a CO detector already in the house. I plan on getting one each for the bedroom and my loft as well. Thank you for the reminder/suggestion!

We have a vent free gas wall furnace in our cabin. I was freaked out about it when the guys bought it and installed it. I borrowed a pretty high tech carbon monoxide detector from work that was calibrated on a regular basis. We ran the furnace for several days up there and I checked it frequently and was very happy to find out that it picked up no detectable CO levels. I still bought a really good carbon monoxide detector and have it set up right by it in the same room. I very seldom take the birds up there during cold weather but I dont want to chance it with our lives either

That makes me feel much better! Whew, maybe it really is safe!

 

[Anne & Gang]

ok WAIT DID WE SAY VENT FREE???? Our senior technical people where I worked all say that vent free should never be used around small rodents or birds....and THEY ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA for that very reason...They may say they are safe but where do the emissions go? think about it..they go back into the air no matter what kind of new fangled technology they have....THEY ARE NOT SAFE VENT FREE ARE NOT SAFE.. vented gas and propane are fine...UNVENTED ARE NOT..Trust me on this one...no matter what the fireplace manufacturers say, (they want to make money!!) our senior tech people all said NOT...and I took so much fireplace training..when vent free came up..they all said the same thing.(even tech people who worked for other manufacturers..) -NOT SAFE AROUND SMALL RODENTS AND BIRDS

 

[JLcribber]

ok WAIT DID WE SAY VENT FREE???? Our senior technical people where I worked all say that vent free should never be used around small rodents or birds....and THEY ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA for that very reason...They may say they are safe but where do the emissions go? think about it..they go back into the air no matter what kind of new fangled technology they have....THEY ARE NOT SAFE VENT FREE ARE NOT SAFE.. vented gas and propane are fine...UNVENTED ARE NOT..Trust me on this one...no matter what the fireplace manufacturers say, (they want to make money!!) our senior tech people all said NOT...and I took so much fireplace training..when vent free came up..they all said the same thing.(even tech people who worked for other manufacturers..) -NOT SAFE AROUND SMALL RODENTS AND BIRDS

If it truly had effective "air scrubbers" and filters to trap particulate and neutralize gasses I could see them calling it safe for "humans" but knowing how sensitive a birds respiratory system is I would never expose them to it. Especially on a full time basis.

I know when they install those cremation furnaces in funeral homes that they burn super hot (1 million BTU) and have very high tech air scrubbers and filters. The law is that nothing toxic at all is allowed to come out of that chimney. The last one I saw also cost almost a million dollars. A very expensive thing to put in. They do tests on the emissions coming out of the stack and it must read zero or they shut it down until it does.

A truly vent free gas heater would be 100 times the cost of a regular heater based on the technology and materials they would need to use.

 

[Bree]

ok WAIT DID WE SAY VENT FREE???? Our senior technical people where I worked all say that vent free should never be used around small rodents or birds....and THEY ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA for that very reason...They may say they are safe but where do the emissions go? think about it..they go back into the air no matter what kind of new fangled technology they have....THEY ARE NOT SAFE VENT FREE ARE NOT SAFE.. vented gas and propane are fine...UNVENTED ARE NOT..Trust me on this one...no matter what the fireplace manufacturers say, (they want to make money!!) our senior tech people all said NOT...and I took so much fireplace training..when vent free came up..they all said the same thing.(even tech people who worked for other manufacturers..) -NOT SAFE AROUND SMALL RODENTS AND BIRDS

Well this is bad news... I have been so frustrated just trying to find out information on it. It doesn't even sound safe for people?! Why on earth would that even be inside a house if this is the case?

The relative who recommended keeping the birds in the bedroom with a window cracked thought that they would be fine with those precautions, but this sounds like it should not be used in the house period?

I guess I am going to have to either break my lease and find another place that will let me have my pets (this was the only one I found when I was looking before, because of the dogs -2 of them and 1 being a pit bull, most places say no way- and I can't afford much as a student), or I am going to have to find another heat source for the wintertime. I have no clue what is safe or not; you hear so many horror stories about space heaters being left on and catching fire, PTFE, etc. I don't know what to do now!

 

[JLcribber]

Check out an oil filled heater. They look like this.