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Very informative Blog from Dr. Scott Echols on ABV/PDD

Greycloud

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wonderb

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Fascinating. I had not heard of PDD being considered an autoimmune disease previously but that makes a lot of sense. In my opinion, the most important piece of this for the average bird owner is the following:

"Recent research has even shown that developing embryos can carry the virus in multiple tissues supporting ‘vertical’ transmission (from mother to egg). Collectively, these studies support a fecal-oral transmission. However, with so many tissues potentially infected with virus, other means of viral shedding (not just through the droppings) are possible. Additionally, infected hens may pass the virus to their young."

and:

"
Avian bornavirus has been confirmed to cause PDD in parrots and both the virus and disease can be found in captive and wild populations." However, "a positive avian bornavirus blood test does NOT equal PDD!!!"

Thanks for sharing.
:D
 

Cynthia & Percy

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thanks for sharing
 

allison

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I really want to know how they can say for sure that ABV and PDD are linked if some of the birds who have PDD do not have ABV.
"Finally, 11 birds had histologic lesions consistent with PDD (of these, only 4 were avian bornavirus positive via PCR)" and the fact that not all birds with ABV will ever get PDD.
I think it's something that deserves more study. I think a lot of things affect whether a bird will get PDD.
 

wonderb

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[FONT=Georgia, serif]He writes that "11 birds had histologic lesions consistent with PDD (of these, only 4 were avian bornavirus positive via PCR)," meaning that either the PCR test was not accurate (false negative) OR that a bird can develop PDD symptoms without being ABV positive. From the quick reading I did, I did not see him say that a bird must test positive for ABV to have PDD. Additionally, if it is an autoimmune disease, it's conceivable that there is more than one way for the disease to manifest.[/FONT]
 

sodakat

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Thanks for the thread Judy and thanks for the excerpts Ellen as I don't have a Facebook account. Very informative!
 

aquagreen

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One of my birds passed away recently, suddenly. I had him tested for PDD and ABV during necropsy. He was PDD NEGATIVE (he died because he had swallowed some fibers and they perforated his intestines, sadly) but it was revealed there was a possibility he'd been exposed to ABV. Now I have just one bird, and obviously she has been potentially exposed to ABV but I have not have her tested, at least not yet. With all the conflicting things I've read I'm not sure what the wisdom in testing would be. I would like to get a second bird but with all the worry over this disease I feel that I cannot. :(

The bird we lost was my husband's bird. He's devastated that he can't have another. I've been doing all the research I can to determine if it's at all possible for us to get a second bird, but with so many unknowns...I'm more confused/upset than ever.
 

Bokkapooh

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If almost 1/3 of the general bird population is infected with ABV, I don't personally think you shouldn't get another bird for your hubby.

ABV does not equal PDD. And many birds can be housed near ABV infected birds without getting ABV.

IMO, I don't see why your hubs can't get another bird:)
 

Holiday

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This makes a tremendous amount of sense, and it is not without precedent in other species. Years ago, I had a cat with chronic lymphocytic/plasmacytic stomatitis. There is no known definitive cause or totally effective cure, and it is an extremely painful, intractable condition. Now, they believe that it is an autoimmune disorder triggered by a virus. If PDD is a condition triggered by ABV (rather than a disease directly caused by it), it completely explains both the well-documented connection between the condition and the virus and the confusing fact that not all infected birds will develop the disorder. The virus would trigger the condition in some individuals and not in others.
 
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aquagreen

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If almost 1/3 of the general bird population is infected with ABV, I don't personally think you shouldn't get another bird for your hubby.

ABV does not equal PDD. And many birds can be housed near ABV infected birds without getting ABV.

IMO, I don't see why your hubs can't get another bird:)
Thanks for the response. :)

What you said is comforting and makes sense. My worry mainly concerns the fact that a.) my bird could actually be healthy, so maybe I'd be exposing her to something she doesn't even have. So in that case I should probably test her quarterly for a year if I'm concerned about that. But even then, if she's healthy, and I get another bird, there's no guarantee how things would go. (Yeah, I could quarantine, but say we find out the new bird has ABV...what then? Do we get rid of the new bird? Etc....) It's the uncertainty of it all that doesn't sit well on my heart. Or b.) That the different strains of ABV could cause different amounts of damage/predispose a bird more to PDD, and that even if both birds were positive I could be exposing each to a new strain. :(
 

La Vena :>

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Hi...Not sure if I am putting this in the right place or not, since I'm new to this blog. I lost my 8 month old African Grey to PDD (diagnosis was confirmed with samples sent to a pathologist). I have other birds, but the one that is concerning me at the moment is my 4 year old Rose Breasted cockatoo.


Beginning 2 years ago, she started picking under one wing and between her shoulder blades. It was a frantic picking and always in the same spot. I took her to my vet and they didn't see anything and didn't run any tests. She stopped for quite a few months. She started again about a year ago and picked a sore under the wing where it attaches to her body near her back. I took her in (still no tests) and the vet said that it looked like a bacterial skin infection and he kept her for a week to clean the area, give her meds (meloxicam and trimethoprim). I brought her home and continued the meds. It continued, so she is now on meloxicam to stop the inflammation. She is still doing it, but my vet doesn't want to test for ABV because he says that the above are not symptoms of PDD or ABV. From what I have been reading, there are people who have PDD birds that have the exact same symptoms.


I am hoping that Dr. Echols can shed some more light on this. I have 2 very young birds in the living room with her and cannot stand the thought of losing any more of my babies to PDD. Thanks for listening.
 

wonderb

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It could be fungal or giardia. It doesn't sound like PDD to me but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Giardia often causes plucking or mutilation under the wings. A member here had good luck using manuka honey for a similar wound. The wound healed perfectly after using the honey topically. Here's the thread for more info: http://forums.avianavenue.com/healthy-highway/77134-update-my-dexter.html
 

animallover

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Aquagreen I think you should get your bird test if your so worried. Better to know than not know. And I don't see why your husband can't get another bird if you keep it in another room until you have yours tested. It isn't fair to him to see you having so much fun with your bird and he can't share that fun. Let him get one and have yours tested. What if your bird is negative and doesn't have it? Wouldn't you rather know for sure than worry so much? Take care!
 

Katy

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One of my birds passed away recently, suddenly. I had him tested for PDD and ABV during necropsy. He was PDD NEGATIVE (he died because he had swallowed some fibers and they perforated his intestines, sadly) but it was revealed there was a possibility he'd been exposed to ABV. Now I have just one bird, and obviously she has been potentially exposed to ABV but I have not have her tested, at least not yet. With all the conflicting things I've read I'm not sure what the wisdom in testing would be. I would like to get a second bird but with all the worry over this disease I feel that I cannot. :(

The bird we lost was my husband's bird. He's devastated that he can't have another. I've been doing all the research I can to determine if it's at all possible for us to get a second bird, but with so many unknowns...I'm more confused/upset than ever.
So very sorry for your's and your husband's loss:(
 

Katy

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Hi...Not sure if I am putting this in the right place or not, since I'm new to this blog. I lost my 8 month old African Grey to PDD (diagnosis was confirmed with samples sent to a pathologist). I have other birds, but the one that is concerning me at the moment is my 4 year old Rose Breasted cockatoo.


Beginning 2 years ago, she started picking under one wing and between her shoulder blades. It was a frantic picking and always in the same spot. I took her to my vet and they didn't see anything and didn't run any tests. She stopped for quite a few months. She started again about a year ago and picked a sore under the wing where it attaches to her body near her back. I took her in (still no tests) and the vet said that it looked like a bacterial skin infection and he kept her for a week to clean the area, give her meds (meloxicam and trimethoprim). I brought her home and continued the meds. It continued, so she is now on meloxicam to stop the inflammation. She is still doing it, but my vet doesn't want to test for ABV because he says that the above are not symptoms of PDD or ABV. From what I have been reading, there are people who have PDD birds that have the exact same symptoms.


I am hoping that Dr. Echols can shed some more light on this. I have 2 very young birds in the living room with her and cannot stand the thought of losing any more of my babies to PDD. Thanks for listening.
So very sorry for your loss. This must be so painful.
 

sodakat

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There has been some different, successful treatment for chronic skin bacteria causing those scabs besides the drugs you mentioned. The skin bacteria is resistant most "normal" antibiotics. Dr Brian Speers is doing it. I think you are fairly close to his office, aren't you?

I would make an appointment to have your RB2 examined as well as discuss your PDD concerns with Dr Speers.
 

La Vena :>

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Sodakat...Thanks for responding :) Actually Dr. Speers is Lolei's vet. I did discuss it with him and he doesn't seem to think that the picking and sore are related to PDD. Of course, since losing Jiya to it I am very nervous about anything going on :(

I have taken her back a few times after the initial stay she had, but nothing is changing. She still does it. I would really like her to be tested for ABV, or at least some labs run to make sure she is okay. Dr. Speer doesn't feel it's necessary, because he believes it was a bacterial skin infection. So I'm not sure what do to at this point. I know I cannot just leave her to dig a hole in herself, that's for sure. He didn't really tell me what a next step would be since the meloxicam is helping a little.
 

sodakat

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Sodakat...Thanks for responding :) Actually Dr. Speers is Lolei's vet. I did discuss it with him and he doesn't seem to think that the picking and sore are related to PDD. Of course, since losing Jiya to it I am very nervous about anything going on :(

I have taken her back a few times after the initial stay she had, but nothing is changing. She still does it. I would really like her to be tested for ABV, or at least some labs run to make sure she is okay. Dr. Speer doesn't feel it's necessary, because he believes it was a bacterial skin infection. So I'm not sure what do to at this point. I know I cannot just leave her to dig a hole in herself, that's for sure. He didn't really tell me what a next step would be since the meloxicam is helping a little.
If Meloxicam is working I would let it run its course. If he says ABV/PDD is not likely I think you should trust him. I know a bird who suffered for almost 2 years with under wing scabs and skin that tore easily until he was taken to Dr Speer who also had a tough time figuring it out but finally did. This bird is finally well.

I would like to PM you when you have enough posts with some information that I don't want to put on a public forum.
 
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