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Undigested food in stool...vet checked, gram stain, all is well?

  • Thread starter M.C Bird Rescue
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M.C Bird Rescue

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I have never seen this and hope to get some answers here. The new IRN had her vet visit, checked her stool, blood, etc. All came back normal but she had an small bacterial infection. She is on antibiotics, and is being treated. The droppings I brought in had some undigested food in them. I have never seen this as "normal". The vet did not seem worried, but I am. She is a PIG..I mean PIG! '
She has been here now a week. Her diet before was french fries, seeds, etc.
Her diet has changed drastically from what she was on previously but I have never seen this sort of stool in a healthy bird. Any ideas?
 

avianantics

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I would keep a very close eye on it, and keep this bird isolated from other birds. Use precautions when handling birds after handling this IRN. Undigested food in stool can be a symptom of PDD. Blood tests and cultures will not diagnose PDD, particularly at an early stage, there will be little or no changes in lab values.

It could be nothing, but just be aware, watch closely and most importantly quarantine, and follow a strict hygiene regime to reduce risk of cross contamination to other birds.
 
M

M.C Bird Rescue

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I have again replaced the paper in her cage, I keep changing the paper every couple of hours in hopes that I can get a really good stool to take in. She keeps eating right over the place she poops in the cage. Sort of making me crazy.
She has no signs or symptoms of a "sick" bird, no lethargy, appetite loss, no change in behaviors, etc.
I wonder if this is stress related from the move, she also lost her buddy right before she was brought here. Hmmmm....any ideas?
 

srtiels

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Mnay times giving the bird probiotics on any foods that it will eat will help clear this up. It is an imbalance in the intestinal flora.
 
M

M.C Bird Rescue

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Mnay times giving the bird probiotics on any foods that it will eat will help clear this up. It is an imbalance in the intestinal flora.
This is what I think too. Do you think the antibiotics will clear this up? Or is the change of the diet the culprit? MnM's and french fries, sunflower seeds...thats the previous diet. here she is getting fruits, nuts, grains, veggies in percentages.
 

JLcribber

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The antibiotic is the culprit. Hence the reason for the probiotic to counteract.

It could just be stress too.
 

MommyBird

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I noticed undigested food in the poops of my Hahn's nearly 3 years ago.
I immediately thought of PDD.
I have an avian vet and we consulted with another local well-known avian vet and some collegues at universities and zoos.
We tested for everything, even did the barium x-rays. Did panels on all kinds of enzymes.
They did not think it looked like PDD. At the time there were no more tests to do.
They finally decided to call it a pancreatic insufficiency. I have given several types of enzymes (I can direct you to a good one for birds, not dogs, if you wish). I feed him papaya regularly.
He still has undigested food in his poop but has maintained his weight, and shows no other PDD symptoms. Nothing at all has shown up in the other birds I have.
I know everyone is thinking I should have isolated him from my other birds and done a bunch of other precautions, but right after the diagnosis he was probably OK I ran into personal circumstances that made it impossible for me to maintain such stuff.

I decided to stop freaking and believe Dr. LaBonde's observation that "Some birds just do that. It is normal for them."

(Although some day I will probably do the new PDD test if it is found reliable.)
 
M

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I noticed undigested food in the poops of my Hahn's nearly 3 years ago.
I immediately thought of PDD.
I have an avian vet and we consulted with another local well-known avian vet and some collegues at universities and zoos.
We tested for everything, even did the barium x-rays. Did panels on all kinds of enzymes.
They did not think it looked like PDD. At the time there were no more tests to do.
They finally decided to call it a pancreatic insufficiency. I have given several types of enzymes (I can direct you to a good one for birds, not dogs, if you wish). I feed him papaya regularly.
He still has undigested food in his poop but has maintained his weight, and shows no other PDD symptoms. Nothing at all has shown up in the other birds I have.
I know everyone is thinking I should have isolated him from my other birds and done a bunch of other precautions, but right after the diagnosis he was probably OK I ran into personal circumstances that made it impossible for me to maintain such stuff.

I decided to stop freaking and believe Dr. LaBonde's observation that "Some birds just do that. It is normal for them."

(Although some day I will probably do the new PDD test if it is found reliable.)

HMM thank you. This is only the second time I have come across this issue. I think i will also start cutting out certain parts of my dry food to see if maybe there is an issue with a certain thing. Thank you for your experience with this also, and everyones advice. It is just strange to me, the last bird that had this passed pretty quickly but DID show signs of illness and it was too late. Cockatiel when I was young. So, now I am really aware of my birds stools, always have been.
Thank you again everyone./ :hug8:
 

srtiels

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I agree as to the antibiotics being part of the problem. When antibiotics are given usually an antifungal should also be given. And probiotics followed up for about a week. Sheeh!...the vet should have known this...grrr! But with many vets get repeat business due to secondary problems, which is what keep them in business. Sorry, I am VERY jaded on this point.

The new home and diet change were added stress. Many times we do not approve of the previous owners diet, BUT the birds digestive system has adapted to this. Any diet changes should be done s-l-o-w-l-y over a period of time, starting with what the bird was used to and gradually introducing new foods as you eliminate the old familiar foods.
 

Hankmacaw

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I would keep a very close eye on it, and keep this bird isolated from other birds. Use precautions when handling birds after handling this IRN. Undigested food in stool can be a symptom of PDD. Blood tests and cultures will not diagnose PDD, particularly at an early stage, there will be little or no changes in lab values.

It could be nothing, but just be aware, watch closely and most importantly quarantine, and follow a strict hygiene regime to reduce risk of cross contamination to other birds.
Ditto to Shelly's observation. For me this would be a "take no chances" situation as undigested food in the stool is the classic first symptom of PDD. John and the others are also correct that it could be a result of antibiotic treatment. In that case, the symptoms (undigested food) should disappear with regular probiotics.
ML
 

Nikki

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Sending you good thoughts, Crystal... I'm hoping that it's something simple that can be taken care of. :hug8:
 

srtiels

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He still has undigested food in his poop but has maintained his weight,
------------------------------------

When we research in regards to what to feed and what to avoid, our birds can become defecient in some things. One of them is salt/sodium. Below is some info saved from past postings in regards to problems seen when there is a sodium defeciency.

I had researched sodium (Salt) in regards to pairs that kill or mutilate or pluck babies, and had found that many times the cause is a salt/sodium deficiency.

This is also true of many birds that die of egg binding. Salt/sodium aids in the muscle contractions. When there is a deficiency there can be a loss of muscle tone to expel the egg.

Salt/sodium is also beneficial in birds with digestive disorders, such as passing whole seeds. It is necessary for the production of hydrochloric acid in the proventriculus, and also the muscle tone in the gizzard for grinding foods.

Very lightly salted rice water helps to halt additional dehydration when a bird has diarrhea. It helps to maintain the osmotic pressure in the body, thus protecting against excessive fluid losses.

Diarrhea can cause sodium depletion. Which is then followed by rapid weight loss due to dehydration. From what I've learned it is not the salt itself that is the problem, but the depletion in the body from certain illnesses, such as renal/kidney problems.
 
 

suncoast

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In Buddy's thread, Dr. B said that PDD can be transmitted by dried fecal dust and feather dust.

Somebody else posted (sorry can't remember who) that the newest test for PDD is to collect their poo for several weeks to several months and then this is turned over to the lab who mix it all together and then test.

You can't diagnose PDD from one test because the virus is not shed everytime a bird poos which is why they collect for a long period of time.

Ginger
 
M

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Yes I considered the PDD issue. We will have to wait and see after more fecals are done. The vet was not worried of the PDD though, more about a bacterial issue.
 

Stacy_b

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Oh man PDD?!?! Makes you wonder why her mate died...UGH :( How stressful and scary.
 

srtiels

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In re-reading your thread you had posted she was fed french fries. Most times french fries will also have some sal on them. Overtime the body has adapted to this, which salt aids in the production of hydrochloric acid and muscle tone of the proventriculus for breaking down/grinding foods for nutrient absorption.

A veterinary treatment of this can be an addition of hydrochloric acid (stock solution is diluted 500:1, prior to dosage amount) to the drinking water. It might be something to ask the vet about.
 

MommyBird

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Susanne, this is interesting about the salt.
I actually have noticed a craving in Jimi for salt and I had thought that when I gave him a pretzle, there would be improvement.
But I had nothing but my observations to talk to anyone about it.
He no longer has any diarrhea, just undigested food mixed in normal poop.
I never would give him too much salt because I was afraid to, but I think we'll discuss this at the vet when I take the 'zons for grooming this afternoon. (he was there earlier this week for grooming and annual exam, including fecal which was no bacteria)

More background - when he was a youngster his leg was broken. I believed he developed an infection that was not cleared up and I went to 3 avian vets here trying to get someone to believe me because they couldn't find anything. Finally he was on antibiotics for several weeks. I saw improvements. Went off antibiotics and relapsed. More different antibiotics for about 3 weeks and improved with being a bit rocky when off again. Then about a year later I noticed the abnormal droppings and went thru all the PDD stuff and then my salt observations.
 

PerfectlyParrot

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Mo did this after he got scared half to death by E one time. All tests were negative and a week of probiotics did the trick.
 

srtiels

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I learned about salt many years ago when I had some problems with very aggressive cockatiel parents that were pluckers of the babies. And also adults that were plucking themselves so bad they were self-mutilating themselves. Adding a salt spool (the brown one with minerals for hamsters) Eliminated these problems. Some of my early prolase problems with tiels was a combination of a sodium defeciency and lack of proper lighting. When birds passed whole seed, and tests showed that it was not a bacterial or yeast problem, first I would give acidopholus (sp) and then boil rice in lightly salted water, and use this water, 50/50 mixed with their drinking water, and this resolved the passing of whole foods and seeds.

Also...PPD is not the only disease that can cause improperly dugested food. Megabactia can also cause this.
 
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