Ugh ... I could not believe my eyes...

[atvchick95]

I would never surgically sex a bird period. Why do that if you can just pluck 5-6 feathers, 1 blood feather or use a DROP of blood?

If anything, send out two different labs if you're worried about human errror.

I also feel the $30 or so is money well spent for my animal not to have to be cut open at all. Especially considering a bird can bleed to death in moments. Just doesn't seem like a risk I'd take over $10.

not sure where you get your information but My birds had a single drop of blood that was it!


I prefer to make sure their internal organs are fine and since it can all be done in one QUICK look I will continue to do it

nothing has went wrong with any of my birds who's had it done or any other bird I've seen/read/heard about having it done

It is NOT as bad as you all are making it out to be


Perhaps you need to see it actually being done to get over the phobia of it.

If it was not quick,safe and painless and my birds were not back to normal within minutes Do you really think I'd keep doing it??????????

oh and by the way Surgically sexing has been done for many more years than DNA testing. How do you think birds were sexed before DNA testing was ever created?

 

[itzmered]

The choice to do dna vs surgical sexing is a personal choice that each individual needs to make. YOur choice to do it or not doesnt mean others are wrong. I don't care for the conditions that this individual vet is choosing to do the procedure in though and that is what I think the thread is about not the debate between surgical sexing and dna

 

[srtiels]

DNA is not 100% DNA can not tell you if your birds insides are okay or not
Surgical sexing is 100% , and CAN tell you if the insides are okay or not
----------------------------------------------------
Kelli...I agree, especially after being down the road in the past of bonded proven pairs. Such pairs may be bonded, and the hen proven to lay an egg, but surgical sexing can be informative to see the status of the sexual organs. Many times damage is a result from toxins, or scarring from past bacterial infections. The health of those organs are also a good indication of what is going on with the bird now and it's health state.

I am a realists also, and feel that this vet has been practising for years and knows what he is doing and the health risks involved. IF there was a risk from contamination, he may be liable, and if it had occurred in the past he would not be preforming these tests in an open environment.

I've seen very top reputable vets do surgical sexing at bird club meetings on a fold up table in the center of the room, with people waiting in line near the table with birds on their shoulders or carriers and have never heard of any problems relating from diseases.

 

[Good Charlotte]

I will add that the store I get my birds and food from is not clean enough to cut birds open and there is no way to keep people from gathering, gawking and coughing, sneezing and what have you. Most indie pet stores are small so won't have an extra room and set up where ever there is space.
Maybe this question will through a monkey wrench at the whole subject. Can any one say the store they use keeps the cages, and general areas, including carpet or hard floors as clean as you do at home? I have been to every pet shop in a 100 mile radius and not a one meets my standards. I bring this up because we are talking about surgeries taking place in retail shops.

 

[Gen120]

That is really strange!

 

[Spinderella]

Ugh! McDonald! Boy have I heard stories! Truly, what is the purpose of surgical sexing a pet bird. I can see a breeder but not a pet. To do this procedure in a room where they are introducing an instrument into a bird, while other birds, feces and clutter is present is unacceptable. McDonald travels all over and holds clinics basically to sex your bird. So unnecessary!

That's what I was thinking! In this day & age, with DNA sexing being so accurrate, why even surgically sex them at all?!

I don't even see the benefit of sexing regular breeder birds.. Unless it's a rare species that is on the verge of extinction and you're introducing the bird into a breeding program, what's the point?!

It just seems so barbaric.

 

[jmfleish]

I've heard stories as well and my Eclectus breeder who lives in Illinois has seen McDonald do these clinics and it's one bird after the other and she has seen him first hand not bother to clean things like dremel tips that are used for beak and nail trims and not clean the table, etc.

I would never take my birds to a place like this and I don't think that after everything I've heard about McDonald's practices I would ever use him either. Of course, he has quite a following but I think that's more because he is so willing to go anywhere and does.

As for surgical sexing, I don't think it's needed unless you're a breeder...just my opinion.

 

[jmfleish]

DNA sexing isn't as accurate as you think it is though. I definitely see why breeders surgically sex but it really shouldn't be done anywhere but in a vet's office.

 

[jmfleish]

DNA was wrong on MY Indian Ringneck she was DNA'D male she is Surgically sexed Female

Why would you DNA sex an IRN unless you were considering buying a baby whose ring hadn't already turned?

DNA is also more expensive

I got both of my IRNS Surgically sexed for $20 - 10 bucks each

Actually, DNA sexing should be cheaper than surgical sexing from most vets. I know McDonald gives a good deal because he does so many at one time, but generally, the anesthesia alone to put the bird under costs more than having your vet do a DNA test on your bird. Surgical sexing *is* surgery and there are other costs involved with the surgery as well at a normal vet clinic. That alone should tell you all you need to think about McDonald doing this procedure everywhere in the US at these clinics.

 

[susand]

Personally I get tired of seeing him judged so poorly - when he IS very clean & has a great positive following. His practice is different how then going to a vet - and the vet seeing 5 different birds in 5 different rooms, while you wait in the waiting room next to a parrot with PDD. NO vet takes ALL precautions there is no way that could even be possible.

Scott is amazing, has worked with amazing vets all over the world. Has written several books {although Ive not read one} and his means are NOT unreasonable. Im sorry but for my parrots id rather they go to sleep for a totally of 2-3 minutes rather then fact the 20 minutes of stress of toweling/struggling & fighting to get a nail, beak & wing trim. Yes, suley you can send off DNA sexing - great but Ive never ever heard of ANY parrot getting an infection because of what he does. He has lost birds on the table like EVERY other vet in america. When he loses a pet he stops clinic for the night (from what Ive seen/heard) and actually shed's tears & feels pain for the parrots which Im sure a Local Vet does not often at all.

I think people need to stop judging people - if you dont have something nice to say, dont say it at all.

 

[SDavies]

uck no thanks!

 

[susand]

Ugh! McDonald! Boy have I heard stories! Truly, what is the purpose of surgical sexing a pet bird. I can see a breeder but not a pet. To do this procedure in a room where they are introducing an instrument into a bird, while other birds, feces and clutter is present is unacceptable. McDonald travels all over and holds clinics basically to sex your bird. So unnecessary!

Once again, you dont know what your talking about fully. He doesnt do it basically to sex your bird ROFL! He looks into your bird & can see any illness in the lungs, tumors or lumps - he also does testing for ALL diseases available, trims beaks, wings & nails -- and because some are so stressed out by this with a "normal" groomer who can NOT see illness ect - he looks all over your bird for cysts, pulls blood feathers before they break - weighs your birds, cleans there nares --- all you people talking bad about him and have NO idea what your talking about --- SHAME ON YOU

Also - to who commented that he doesnt clean in-between trimming & dremeling - again your wrong. He has antiseptic solution he washes the table down with before each bird hits it - and he cleans each tip between parrots, also he opens new needles for sexing - - and as I posted before Ive never heard of one parrot getting an infection from such a small insison unless your home environments are unhealthy!!

 

[Kathy]

If I'm not mistaken he's the same man that came to a local bird store here not long ago. The owner told me they had a big turnout. She has a shop FULL of birds. Taking my birds around so many birds (or any birds for that matter) is the main concern of mine and I just can't do it. She said he'd be back in a few months.. I've thought about it and I know I won't be taking mine there around all those birds.

 

[susand]

then kathy what ever will you do if your bird got sick, because you cant take him to an avian vet with all those other birds around, some there for being sick - some being boarded.

 

[Kathy]

then kathy what ever will you do if your bird got sick, because you cant take him to an avian vet with all those other birds around, some there for being sick - some being boarded.

I have taken both of mine to the vet. No problems.. both times mine were the only birds there. (small town)

 

[jmfleish]

Also - to who commented that he doesnt clean in-between trimming & dremeling - again your wrong. He has antiseptic solution he washes the table down with before each bird hits it - and he cleans each tip between parrots, also he opens new needles for sexing - - and as I posted before Ive never heard of one parrot getting an infection from such a small insison unless your home environments are unhealthy!!

Sorry, but I know through a good friend that he isn't as clean as you think he is. She's seen him use the same dremel tip from bird to bird not to mention not cleaning the table between birds. Maybe he cleaned up when you saw him, but he did not on the several occasions my breeder has seen him work and she has no reason to lie.

I agree with whoever said that vets who do this kind of traveling should invest in a bus. That would definitely make more sense.

 

[jmfleish]

then kathy what ever will you do if your bird got sick, because you cant take him to an avian vet with all those other birds around, some there for being sick - some being boarded.

I honestly think you're going to have less of a problem going to the vet than showing up at a clinic at a pet store. I've been taking my birds to the same clinic for the last 8 years and haven't had any issues, although I do agree there is a certain amount of danger involved...it isn't enough to make me not want to see a vet.

 

[susand]

I have taken both of mine to the vet. No problems.. both times mine were the only birds there. (small town)

And for yearS Ive taken my birds to see Scott with all the parrots and even had a problem. Each & every time/state Ive seen scott in ive seen him follow cleaning procedure.

What came in before your birds were there you dont know. So even going outside can expose them to anything ... is the point im trying to make.

 

[susand]

I honestly think you're going to have less of a problem going to the vet than showing up at a clinic at a pet store. I've been taking my birds to the same clinic for the last 8 years and haven't had any issues, although I do agree there is a certain amount of danger involved...it isn't enough to make me not want to see a vet.

Ive never been to a clinic in a pet shop. Ours are held in a home - or a cominuty center. My partner actually has old video of Scott S/S'ing someone - so people could see how non-dangerour it is. Ultimently its eachs owns choice I just hate seeing someone put down for our own choice's in the same sence. Scott McDonald has been around many years longer then most local avian vets - hes up to date with the newest testing/treatment and also does call in meds when they are needed -- he calls them into like a walgreens where theres a mixing compound on site. Im not commenting any more, ive said my peice. God bless you all and your own personal choices

 

[Kathy]

And for yearS Ive taken my birds to see Scott with all the parrots and even had a problem. Each & every time/state Ive seen scott in ive seen him follow cleaning procedure.

What came in before your birds were there you dont know. So even going outside can expose them to anything ... is the point im trying to make.

You are correct but I think taking my birds around 100's of others (like the pet shop I mentioned) would be worse than taking them to a vet.. when I went to the vet no birds were there.
I have never met the man. Not saying anything against him or anyone else. Just don't want to take my birds around a bunch of others and expose them to God knows what.