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Tumor

Johnny99

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I had a female zebra finch for 4 years. Some weeks ago, I noticed some dark discoloration and swelling around her rear (I have been checking her rear every day ever since we had to put another female down because of a prolapse..). We have found a vet around 2 years ago, probably the only one in a 50km radius from where I live who specializes in birds, however I have visited him twice with her last year when she seemed sick and he said she was fine so I was afraid this time would be the same and I would just be pointlessly stressing her (and he is also hard to reach..). Well the bloating has gotten bad this friday, and she started looking very ill but she was still eating and drinking and her friend was taking care of her. I was afraid of the worst, so I wanted to give her two more days with her friend. After calling him yesterday, we were finally able to get an appointment, and what I feared the most turned out to be true - it was a tumor.. So he euthanized her. He said the tumor was pushing on her intestines. Almost every vet here (in Slovakia) seems to only work on dogs and cats. However I am the one that failed her. I am not sure about finches, but maybe he would have been able to operate on her and remove it.. Now I have started considering some things because I have never felt this bad inside. My baby, I am sorry..
 

MommyBird

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I think you are a much better friend than many people would be. You found her an avian vet in a place where they are hard to come by, and I can tell you really loved her and did your best.
Honestly, I can't think of any vet who would try to remove a tumor from a finch. My vet is an avian diplomate and very good at surgery, and she would have felt sad she could not do it, but she would not have tried. The blood loss would have been a big reason, but I imagine the precision required would even be beyond robotic surgeons. Anaesthesia on such a small bird is also extremely dangerous, and would have been needed for too long a time for such a complicated surgery if it were even possible.
I absolutely understand how much you miss her. They leave a much larger hole in our hearts than they occupy in our homes. Time does help. Sadly I know that for a fact. Maybe you can honor her by being the best friend of another avian companion when you are ready.
Hugs to you. :sadhug2:I'm so sorry for your loss, and you did not fail her.
 

Pixiebeak

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I'm sorry for your loss. We feel the pain deeply when we loose them .

It's difficult to do surgeries on birds, most especially small species. We dont have the ability yet to replace blood loss.in larger species like macaw , a member shared they were able to have a donor ( but this is very rare still) And by the point a tumor has made itself known , it can have invaded too much tissue or spread through our the body.

Providing comfort or an end to suffering can be all we can do . And you did this.

If you have had egg binding or prolapse in others. Diet can help, offering fresh veggies is a source of calcium. The sunshine vitamin D and calcium are linked, so safe exposure to sunshine in light shade or with access to shade , don't stick them in full sun, and protected from predators who can reach into cages. Or adding pellets to the diet , a lot harder in finches granted . Limiting breeding to once a year.

This website shows a bird...I can't read it, ..and maybe is very far away from you
 
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Xoetix

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I'm so sorry :sadhug2: it sounds like you did everything you could for her, you didn't fail her at all
 

Johnny99

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Thank you all for the replies... I am feeding them a mix for finches consisting of seed and pellets, but no eggfood since I have learned that it can stimulate egg laying which is the last thing I wanted my females to do given how hard it is on them. If only you could somehow permanently stop it it would be so good. At times, she would lay an egg EVERY DAY and I was giving her water soluble calcium, a cuttlebone obviously and also crushed oyster shells. I don't use light in the room anymore meaning they mostly wake up when the sun rises and go to sleep when it sets. What I remembered now is that the shelf they are on was painted some months ago, and while it was left outside for a few days so that it was dry, you could still smell it for some time even though it was not really a nasty smell and I am worried it is related.. Or the chronic egg binding or something else... I am not sure..
 

Johnny99

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I think you are a much better friend than many people would be. You found her an avian vet in a place where they are hard to come by, and I can tell you really loved her and did your best.
Honestly, I can't think of any vet who would try to remove a tumor from a finch. My vet is an avian diplomate and very good at surgery, and she would have felt sad she could not do it, but she would not have tried. The blood loss would have been a big reason, but I imagine the precision required would even be beyond robotic surgeons. Anaesthesia on such a small bird is also extremely dangerous, and would have been needed for too long a time for such a complicated surgery if it were even possible.
I absolutely understand how much you miss her. They leave a much larger hole in our hearts than they occupy in our homes. Time does help. Sadly I know that for a fact. Maybe you can honor her by being the best friend of another avian companion when you are ready.
Hugs to you. :sadhug2:I'm so sorry for your loss, and you did not fail her.
Since I started having birds 8 years ago, I had 9 die on me.. One canary, old, that we were taking care of, had an eye issue, another one started having what seemed like strokes.. then two canaries, mom and daughter, were having (according to the vet) thyroid issues (started with feathers falling around their necks and then the legs) and the medication didn't help.. then two more, one died extremely suddenly probably from egg binding and another one was born with a bad leg which limited her movement so we put bird hay at the bottom of the floor and also a nest where she could sleep or just sit easily.. because of the limited movement she was overweight and one day died from what seemed like heart attack... I gave them pure pellets but they didn't want to eat those.. then we lost 2 female zebras.. one had a prolapse (we were giving them lots of calcium, no nests or males were in the cage, but they would just continue to lay eggs), then her friend who also laid a lot of eggs had cancer so we had to euthanize her.. and now my baby Pinky died. I can not have birds anymore because I feel like the worst owner on the earth. If I could exchange myself for them, I would..
 

Xoetix

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Have all of the birds come from the same store or breeder?
 

Johnny99

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Have all of the birds come from the same store or breeder?
No, and I definitely wouldn't buy one from breeders around here, I can just imagine how they are treated. Probably all in one aviary somewhere outside and doing nothing but laying eggs.
 

Johnny99

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I thought of putting Pinky's friend into a cage with her brother so I did (he was born with a blind eye... I showed it to the vet and he told me as long as there is no infection or swelling it is good. He doesn't really fly and he doesn't have as much energy as others but he eats a lot and he can also get really horny judging by some weird things he does..) and while I do not think he would mount her, he was with Pnky for a while and he didn't, I am worried it could stimulate egg laying in which case I would need to separate them. He was living in his own cage, alone, but always near his sisters (they are siblings).
 

Pixiebeak

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If the birds are in an aviary situation, which really is the way most keep finches , and little ones like that, it's much more easy to have pathogens brought in by a hidden carrier. That is why a strict quarantine proceedure is so important for each newly acquired bird. I'd suggest 45 day minimum to 3 months. In an ideal world ( wish we all lived in one) st the end of quarantine the would get veterinarian health screening.

Purchasing stock from a reputable breeder.

Quick isolation and quarantine any sick birds, or ones with evidence of mites or such.

Routine screening of flock. One way is collection of several fresh poop samples , combined, and checked for parasite s d pathogend. In the United States there are independent labs you can mail in samples. They have set panels ( groups of tests) , or you can pick the tests. Some you can contact prior to send you collection medium to preserve samples to send out. Some can even run some tests in feathers. It's possible other countries have testing labs like this.

in aviary flock management, some do routine preventative treatment for coccidia and mites and such. Some of these medicines are available to purchase with out a prescription. I once came across a decent avairy finch protocol. You can search. Or at some point if I'm not so busy , I will try .

if a natural substrate is used as floor of aviary like dirt or gravel or sand or such. Then the top layer need to be removed and replaced at set intervals.

replacement of porous cage accessories , like nest boxes, wood perches routinly. Or taking them out and cleaning, like scrubbing, then soaking in in dilute bleach , rinse , and allow to completey dry for a couple of days before returning. Maybe every six months? And every time you have a health issue..

routinely cleaning, and removing fecal build up, daily scrubbing of water and feed dishes.

on added calcium, I'm not knowing what is safe or effective.

p providing a good diet. Most species need fresh leafy greens and veggies. Research your species, and how that's accomplished.
 

Johnny99

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If the birds are in an aviary situation, which really is the way most keep finches , and little ones like that, it's much more easy to have pathogens brought in by a hidden carrier. That is why a strict quarantine proceedure is so important for each newly acquired bird. I'd suggest 45 day minimum to 3 months. In an ideal world ( wish we all lived in one) st the end of quarantine the would get veterinarian health screening.

Purchasing stock from a reputable breeder.

Quick isolation and quarantine any sick birds, or ones with evidence of mites or such.

Routine screening of flock. One way is collection of several fresh poop samples , combined, and checked for parasite s d pathogend. In the United States there are independent labs you can mail in samples. They have set panels ( groups of tests) , or you can pick the tests. Some you can contact prior to send you collection medium to preserve samples to send out. Some can even run some tests in feathers. It's possible other countries have testing labs like this.

in aviary flock management, some do routine preventative treatment for coccidia and mites and such. Some of these medicines are available to purchase with out a prescription. I once came across a decent avairy finch protocol. You can search. Or at some point if I'm not so busy , I will try .

if a natural substrate is used as floor of aviary like dirt or gravel or sand or such. Then the top layer need to be removed and replaced at set intervals.

replacement of porous cage accessories , like nest boxes, wood perches routinly. Or taking them out and cleaning, like scrubbing, then soaking in in dilute bleach , rinse , and allow to completey dry for a couple of days before returning. Maybe every six months? And every time you have a health issue..

routinely cleaning, and removing fecal build up, daily scrubbing of water and feed dishes.

on added calcium, I'm not knowing what is safe or effective.

p providing a good diet. Most species need fresh leafy greens and veggies. Research your species, and how that's accomplished.
Yes we do clean poop off of branches every day, but it is difficult with finches because they can poop in their food bowls 10 times a day if they want to. I have been thinking of which greens to give them but they really only like lettuce... which probably does nothing for them.. I am welcome to suggestions but mine mostly like seed. And when it comes to fruit, apples. Regarding the poop samples, I do think that's something the vet that we visited does (not 100% sure), and collecting them wouldn't be a problem. If you know of preventative medicines for any other stuff please let me know and I will take a look. I was once able to buy (I think it was) scatt when I thought my canary might have mites.
 

Johnny99

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If the birds are in an aviary situation, which really is the way most keep finches , and little ones like that, it's much more easy to have pathogens brought in by a hidden carrier. That is why a strict quarantine proceedure is so important for each newly acquired bird. I'd suggest 45 day minimum to 3 months. In an ideal world ( wish we all lived in one) st the end of quarantine the would get veterinarian health screening.

Purchasing stock from a reputable breeder.

Quick isolation and quarantine any sick birds, or ones with evidence of mites or such.

Routine screening of flock. One way is collection of several fresh poop samples , combined, and checked for parasite s d pathogend. In the United States there are independent labs you can mail in samples. They have set panels ( groups of tests) , or you can pick the tests. Some you can contact prior to send you collection medium to preserve samples to send out. Some can even run some tests in feathers. It's possible other countries have testing labs like this.

in aviary flock management, some do routine preventative treatment for coccidia and mites and such. Some of these medicines are available to purchase with out a prescription. I once came across a decent avairy finch protocol. You can search. Or at some point if I'm not so busy , I will try .

if a natural substrate is used as floor of aviary like dirt or gravel or sand or such. Then the top layer need to be removed and replaced at set intervals.

replacement of porous cage accessories , like nest boxes, wood perches routinly. Or taking them out and cleaning, like scrubbing, then soaking in in dilute bleach , rinse , and allow to completey dry for a couple of days before returning. Maybe every six months? And every time you have a health issue..

routinely cleaning, and removing fecal build up, daily scrubbing of water and feed dishes.

on added calcium, I'm not knowing what is safe or effective.

p providing a good diet. Most species need fresh leafy greens and veggies. Research your species, and how that's accomplished.
I keep thinking what would happen had we gone much earlier.. we were hoping it would get better.. this vet is slightly strange.. other than some other things, he gave me some strange advice last year regarding the what he thought were thyroid issues. But maybe he could have helped, I don't know. All I know is the guilt will now rightfully eat me for the rest of my life. As it should.
 

Pixiebeak

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Leafy greens lettuces like romaine, swiss shard , watercress sbd more are excellent sources of vitamin A and good stuff!
Watercress is nuts how much vitamins are in it!
 

Pixiebeak

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I keep thinking what would happen had we gone much earlier.. we were hoping it would get better.. this vet is slightly strange.. other than some other things, he gave me some strange advice last year regarding the what he thought were thyroid issues. But maybe he could have helped, I don't know. All I know is the guilt will now rightfully eat me for the rest of my life. As it should.
No! You should not feel guilty!! Please do not be torturing yourself!

All of us are trying to do the best we can, and trying to learn if there is more we can do .
 

Johnny99

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Leafy greens lettuces like romaine, swiss shard , watercress sbd more are excellent sources of vitamin A and good stuff!
Watercress is nuts how much vitamins are in it!
I will give watercress a try, had to google what it is. I guess I am also going to try to schedule an appointment this thursday if work will allow it (if not then on saturday) because I recently noticed one of my canaries making a slight whistling sound occasionally in the evening (no heavy breathing or tail bobbing though). Hopefully something will come out of it. He also has scaly feet which I thought was age related as he is slightly older (but not really old). All 3 boys have had them after some point (they are the same age, 6 and a half years) and for some reason my girl canaries never had them.. not one of them.. I had 4 male canaries and 4 female and not one female ever had it (and it is not like all the females were caged together.. or the males) but it seems like every male had them. So we will see.. Some of the remedies I read about online included dipping their feet in vegetable oil for 5 minutes every day for quite a few days.. I am afraid that would lead to a heart attack.
 

Johnny99

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Leafy greens lettuces like romaine, swiss shard , watercress sbd more are excellent sources of vitamin A and good stuff!
Watercress is nuts how much vitamins are in it!
Can you please tell me, is it okay to have a zebra finch male in a cage with a zebra finch female? I do not think he will mount her (because of the eye that I mentioned) but if it will stimulate egg laying then I will have to separate them.
 

Johnny99

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Would something like this be good for disinfection of the cages?
 

Xoetix

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Would something like this be good for disinfection of the cages?
You should look into getting some F10 cleaner, it's great
 
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