Trust and Training...

[RainFields]

Ever since Boomer claimed our home to be his, this training and trust thing has been pretty much all I think about. I come here and see all your pretty little fids, I see them foraging, playing, eating, being held by you all. I look at Boomer and say, maybe someday huh? And I really feel bad for Boomer because the people that he now has know nothing about tiels! And even more crazy...his people would do anything or whatever it takes to make sure he is just happy and loved, but they don't know how or they never think it's enough.

Food: I try and I try but so far all I can get him to eat beside his seed mix, is wheat toast and brown rice. But he will only eat these things if I feed him from my fingers, no crocks or feeding bowls. I've even tried to put rice in one of his regular feeders, he won't touch it. Everyday I offer something new, at first he wants it because I will eat it too, or the dogs will eat it but one little taste and he runs to the other side. He does eat millet spray now.

He never gets out of his cage, this makes me feel really bad, even if I left the door open, I don't think he would come out. He stays away from my hands, the only time my hands are allowed to come close is when I'm feeding him his toast or rice.
Then I found this on another web site:

To win the bird's trust will probably be the biggest challenge for you both. We'd start by catching him in a towel. The towel will aid you in controlling him as well as protecting you from his biting. Gently wrap the towel around the bird being careful that the wings are tucked in the proper position and the head free enough to insure there is no obstacle to block it's breathing. With the bird safely wrapped in the towel, sit down with the bird in your lap and begin building that trust by speaking softly and assuredly. You'll need to begin slowly so don't be too eager to rub his head. You will have to repeat this routine several times but eventually he should learn you mean him no harm. We'd recommend you do this every day until you see the results you are looking for. Just remember, he looks at people as his enemy so be patient because it could take a little time.

I don't think I can do this, it seems very scary for Boomer and for me. Is this something any of you would do? I'd be so afraid I'd hurt him or cause him to be even more afraid of me. Little steps I've made so far is, I can put my face inside his cage and talk to him, he seems very okay with this, he will even come close and talk with me. But the second even one hand goes in that cage, it's "OH NO!", he gets as far away as he can and the conversation is over.
I just don't know what else I can do to win his trust? I just wish there was a step by step guide to let me know how far I've come or when to advance to the next step. Sometimes I just tell myself this is all there ever will be, he will never allow himself to be touched and he will never want more than what he has now, he's just happy with what he has now...so just let it go.
So...is there a secret 12 step program you could put me and Boomer thru?

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

that method of toweling in is a flood method and not helpful in gain your parrots trust in my opinion
I will give you some links to some articles on positive reinforcement that might help you understand a little more others will come along with more ideas
The Writings of Susan Friedman, Ph

 

[ThatDarnBird]

I wish there was a secret program. I wouldn't do the towel thing. It seems to me that forcing the issue like that would only make things worse. Birds don't realize you don't mean harm, they only know they are frightened and they won't remember any lesson in that frame of mind. Birds adjust really slooowwwww. Boomer has come a very long way in a short time, his progress has been quite fast. I think your instincts with him are good. If he is in a room that is safe for flighted birds, no doors or windows that will be open, no hot stove and that sort of thing- if the room is safe then I would start once or twice a day just opening his cage door for a half hour or so. Meal times would be great because then he might be curious about what your eating. Just open the door even if he doesn't come out, he might eventually. If he does come out you can use a stick to step him up to go back in when it's time, use the "step up command". Baby steps. He may never step up from inside the cage. My Jack will only step up from the outside of the cage and will run from my hand inside. I simply open the cage door and let him come out on his own. As for his diet, that will take a long time too. It took me a year to get my budgie to eat other things and my Tiel Jack only started to eat other things when we brought Sam home. He wanted what she had. Think about his diet in a long term sort of way and keep offering other stuff. I feed my tiels on a plate placed on the floor of the cage and they seem to like it. Don't take away his bowls but you might try some food on the bottom to make him curious.

I think he's happy now, but I also think there's more to come. It's early days yet.

 

[Stevo]

Hahaha - to earn a birds trust by scarying the heck out of it with a towel. Jeez, there is some real crap on the internet!!

The secret 12 step program is this -

1. Go slowly
2. Go slowly
3. Go at the birds pace
4 - 12. Repeat...

Seriously though, you can only go at the pace YOUR bird is comfortable with - every bird is different. If he's eating some foods from your hand then keep that up, if he leans, or shows any body language (change of stance/weight) towards your hand or to climb out of the cage then bridge ("good") and give the reward.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of repetitions build trust and confidence. It's good that he'll eat those treats from your hand and nowhere else - that gives you a perfect treat to use for training.

 

[ThatDarnBird]

Sue, you might want to think about sprouting seeds for Boomer. I bought a Sprouting Kit and it's been really easy. The seeds are the most nutritious when they first grow tails, so they look like seeds still. Right now I'm using the EasySprouter with regular bird seed, but with regular seed you have to use it fast because some of the things in there won't sprout and may get spoil, I haven't had any problems, I just make sure to use it up in the next day or two and keep them drained well. Sprouting was a really good bridge between seed on new foods for my birds.

 

[JLcribber]

Well you should not feel bad about not being a le to use your hand. Scummo was 24 years old. I had him his whole life. The "only" time I was ever able to hold him was the night he died. He was as tame as any bird. He would snuggle up to my neck and preen my moustache as long as my hands were down at my side. If I made any attempt to reach for him he was gone. He was very proud of being a "bird".

My point is to him my head was me and he was not scared of "me". Those hands were predators and was not going to have anything to do with "them".

I would use my head, shoulders and eventually my forearms to interact with him and forget the hands.

Many Tiels are known to not like hands.

 

[dolldid]

ever since boomer claimed our home to be his, this training and trust thing has been pretty much all i think about. I come here and see all your pretty little fids, i see them foraging, playing, eating, being held by you all. I look at boomer and say, maybe someday huh? And i really feel bad for boomer because the people that he now has know nothing about tiels! And even more crazy...his people would do anything or whatever it takes to make sure he is just happy and loved, but they don't know how or they never think it's enough.

Food: I try and i try but so far all i can get him to eat beside his seed mix, is wheat toast and brown rice. But he will only eat these things if i feed him from my fingers, no crocks or feeding bowls. I've even tried to put rice in one of his regular feeders, he won't touch it. Everyday i offer something new, at first he wants it because i will eat it too, or the dogs will eat it but one little taste and he runs to the other side. He does eat millet spray now.

He never gets out of his cage, this makes me feel really bad, even if i left the door open, i don't think he would come out. He stays away from my hands, the only time my hands are allowed to come close is when i'm feeding him his toast or rice.
Then i found this on another web site:

to win the bird's trust will probably be the biggest challenge for you both. We'd start by catching him in a towel. The towel will aid you in controlling him as well as protecting you from his biting. Gently wrap the towel around the bird being careful that the wings are tucked in the proper position and the head free enough to insure there is no obstacle to block it's breathing. With the bird safely wrapped in the towel, sit down with the bird in your lap and begin building that trust by speaking softly and assuredly. You'll need to begin slowly so don't be too eager to rub his head. You will have to repeat this routine several times but eventually he should learn you mean him no harm. We'd recommend you do this every day until you see the results you are looking for. Just remember, he looks at people as his enemy so be patient because it could take a little time.

i don't think i can do this, it seems very scary for boomer and for me. Is this something any of you would do? I'd be so afraid i'd hurt him or cause him to be even more afraid of me. Little steps i've made so far is, i can put my face inside his cage and talk to him, he seems very okay with this, he will even come close and talk with me. But the second even one hand goes in that cage, it's "oh no!", he gets as far away as he can and the conversation is over.
I just don't know what else i can do to win his trust? I just wish there was a step by step guide to let me know how far i've come or when to advance to the next step. Sometimes i just tell myself this is all there ever will be, he will never allow himself to be touched and he will never want more than what he has now, he's just happy with what he has now...so just let it go.
So...is there a secret 12 step program you could put me and boomer thru?

hu mango came out of an aviary at a yr old never handled it took 6 months to gain his trust how i did it was
leave cage open all day had a play senter set up beside cage and talked to him when he was out stood close but not to close each week got closer finaly he started to show he wanted to come to me mind you i never once tryed to touch him when he came closer i moved a little to he ran away i stood my ground till finlay he let me touch his toes and from that moment on it was clear sailing
dot hand feed dont even try to do a thing let him do it all im telling you this as it worked real well for me and he trust me completly im very stricked with him do things others wouldnt think of doing with there birds to the point i have been told i should never own a bird but this guy is by my side all day and has no fear of any thing but let me tell you he isnt afraid to tell me its a bad time when that happens i walk a way come back 2 seconds later and hes on me he has neve bitten me is a great talker and i take him out with me on busses all over in summer
im sure if you stay back about 2 feet and work your way close never try touchim\ng your bird will come around
good luck hope i was able to help you bond

doll mango

 

[Birdiemarie]

Great post Doll. You and Mango have grown at the same time.

 

[RainFields]

These are all very good posts, thanks so much, I guess I get discouraged sometimes. When my son visited on his fall break he said, "dang mom, he's so cute, you just want to hold him and snuggle with him!" And he's right! So, right now, I've moved his cage right next to me, just like I did when I first got him, I've opened the door, and he's actually coming out...he's sitting in the door...as I'm typing

 

[RainFields]

He was coming out, then he got scared and hurried back to the comfort of his cage, but he touched my hand while I was typing, with his beck but it really wasn't a bite. Now he keeps coming down, I have the bottom door open, looking at me and then he runs back up top to one of his perches. Anyway, maybe he will come all the way someday, and I do have those old wooden dowels that were in his first cage. I did use one to get him into his new cage.
I seriously do not know what I'd do without you guys, you are the greatest. I was thinking I'd let Boomer get on here and talk to your birds, since ya'll are so great maybe he could use some advice too.

 

[Cynthia & Percy]

thanks for the update and progress that he is making

 

[RainFields]

I think I just get too impatient. I need to go slow, not Boomer. I will look into the seed sprouting, that is interesting for sure. We always have a garden during the summer, fresh veggies from the garden are always better.

 

[Danita]

You are such a great caregiver to Boomer. The love you have for him shows through your posts

you have great suggestions already.

My tiels won't eat much either, I buy Harrisons Mash and springle it on top of their seeds (in a shallow dish). They get some whether they like it or not. Broccoli is usually good, they like the stalks. Also that broc coleslaw they sell ( without dressing). If he likes breads, try a birdie bread, I haven't had luck with it though (using a cornbread mix as a base).

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[ThatDarnBird]

Reading about Boomer always brightens my day. Hearing about how he's starting to explore his world little by little just makes my day!

Veggies from the garden sound yummy. Becareful about fertilizer and insecticide.

 

[Besta3]

My (now deceased) zon Paco was 14 before he let me touch him. I think the only reason he got to that point was because my daughter was born that year. In retrospect, I made all the cooing and loving words to my daughter that I also used with Paco. My biggest surprise was putting her to bed, going back to the computer and Paco bringing his "blanket" to me. I held it open and he climbed on. Covered him up and we cuddled for a full 15 minutes. Then, he was done. Took his blanket, climbed back into the cage and said, "Night, night." It became our ritual. LOL lasted much longer than the child's.

 

[RainFields]

My (now deceased) zon Paco was 14 before he let me touch him. I think the only reason he got to that point was because my daughter was born that year. In retrospect, I made all the cooing and loving words to my daughter that I also used with Paco. My biggest surprise was putting her to bed, going back to the computer and Paco bringing his "blanket" to me. I held it open and he climbed on. Covered him up and we cuddled for a full 15 minutes. Then, he was done. Took his blanket, climbed back into the cage and said, "Night, night." It became our ritual. LOL lasted much longer than the child's.

So sad and sweet too!
You know I've tried to feed Boomer broccoli many times, I always have it on hand because it's one of my favs, but never have I tried to feed him the stalk part, only the florets. I will try again, just a different part of the broccoli.

For one hour I've had his cage sitting right next to me, I'm glad it has wheels. I have the bottom door open, he has tried several times to come out the door, but always changes his mind and goes back in. But he does act happier being this close to me, maybe I should do this when I'm sitting on this computer.

 

[Besta3]

I always kept him close and people would laugh at me because I talked to him nonstop. He would give me gibberish back, but always had tonal inflections as if he were answering but in his own language. That first break, when he came with his blanket, was the turning point. After that, I got huge sulks if he had to go to his cage for anything other than night time.

Food! OMG do we ever keep up with them? I sometimes think that them being finicky is them training us.

 

[dolldid]

he was coming out, then he got scared and hurried back to the comfort of his cage, but he touched my hand while i was typing, with his beck but it really wasn't a bite. Now he keeps coming down, i have the bottom door open, looking at me and then he runs back up top to one of his perches. Anyway, maybe he will come all the way someday, and i do have those old wooden dowels that were in his first cage. I did use one to get him into his new cage.
I seriously do not know what i'd do without you guys, you are the greatest. I was thinking i'd let boomer get on here and talk to your birds, since ya'll are so great maybe he could use some advice too.

please do not chang cages yet please wait till hes bonded and do not use that dowel he is comming to you at his pace im pleading with you go s l o w roam want built in a day you will have a life time with a great buddy if you let him do his bonding i have to say most times id shut my mouth but after mango no you are bonding but its his pace dont go spoiling it no new cage till bonding is well in to it i was like you had nice big cage but it took a nother 4 months of bonding be for i put it up took old one out of room out of site out of mind so by xmas you should be able to put up new cage if all goes well
go slow hun please

doll mango

 

[Welshanne]

You are doing great. The secret is at Boomers pace and not yours!
I am in the same situation with my two new "inmates" Chaz and Jay.
Our lives together have been more than a bumpy ride.
Chaz is highly strung and a very nervous bird anyway,but as harmless as a fly and never bitten me once.
jay has had a lot of issues, suffering from bullying by Chaz,although in a loving way.
Over preened by chaz to the point of no head feathers! Now all grown back.
Depressed, missing his old long term owner whom he adored.
All intents and purposes gave me the impression of suffering from a bereavement. Well he had been parted from his sick owner, so suppose it was.
sleep deprivation, as he stayed with his owner day and night and saw her through the long wee hours of the morning and gave her all the love he could give for such a small bundle of feathered love.
Yesterday for the first time he flew and landed on ME it was magic.
Before he seemed to think all women were evil and the only one he loved had abandoned him to these strangers. His second owner could not cope with him and his complex attitude plus the biting.
Now my skin has healed completely from the last bad bite, expect I shall experience some more before I am much older, but whatever it takes.
Jay is talking at long last and blowing ME kisses! Think maybe we have cracked it and he does not hate me as much as he originally thought! Good luck you will get there with wisdom, patience and lots of love.

 

[RainFields]

please do not chang cages yet please wait till hes bonded and do not use that dowel he is comming to you at his pace im pleading with you go s l o w roam want built in a day you will have a life time with a great buddy if you let him do his bonding i have to say most times id shut my mouth but after mango no you are bonding but its his pace dont go spoiling it no new cage till bonding is well in to it i was like you had nice big cage but it took a nother 4 months of bonding be for i put it up took old one out of room out of site out of mind so by xmas you should be able to put up new cage if all goes well
go slow hun please

doll mango

The cage he's in right now is his cage forever, (I think?). When I got Boomer, he was living outside and had been for about 3 months. His very tiny cage was rusted in several spots and the plastic parts were very brittle and kept breaking. There was a broken mirror and a rusted bell, I had to buy him new toys and for his own health get a new cage, much bigger. Transferring him to the new has already been done. He loves his new cage, he's been in it for about 4 weeks now.