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Training is an Obligation

Monica

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Nothing could be further than the truth! And this can go for *any* animal!

Training isn't meant to stop undesired behaviors, training is meant to help prevent them. If you start training an animal at a young age, you can help prevent many undesired behaviors as you create a history of reinforcement and repetition in the behaviors that you desire.

If you start to notice an undesired behavior starting up, work now to change that behavior before it becomes a problem!

If you have an animal that shows *any* kind of undesired behavior, they need training to change that behavior around! Instead of labeling a behavior or the animal (i.e. aggressive, dominant, stubborn, 'trying to get their way', etc), look at it as a training issue! Instead of looking at how to *stop* the behavior once it has occurred, try to figure out a way to prevent, redirect and change the behavior before it occurs.

Instead of teaching the animal what not to do (the word "No" doesn't give them any direction or tell them what to do), teach them what to do! Give them something to do over the undesired behavior!

Most of all, learn to understand your animal's body language. Is your dog growling out of aggression or fear? Does your bird bite to get their way or out of not understanding what it is that you want? Does your cat scratch up your household furniture because it's pissed at you or because he has nothing to scratch his claws against? If you can understand why the behavior is occurring, you may be better equipped to not only handle the behavior, but to change it.




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petiteoiseau

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I am all for teaching an animal so it becomes well-adjusted. Lord knows I've taken in many which only problem was that the previous owners did not know what they were doing (and I am talking not only birds but also dogs and cats). The problem for me with the word 'training' is that it has come to have a different meaning than it used to and I still use it the 'old way'. Until not too long ago (just a few years, actually), people did not use the word 'training' to mean achieving a well-adjusted animal, they meant professional training as in show, racing, tricks, etc They meant actual sessions with actual methods. If you go by that, I don't train. I simply do the same thing all the time, I reward verbally when they do something right and scold when the behavior is bad (mind you, not what we, humans, consider 'undesirable' but actual bad behavior so a cat that is found sharpening his nails on a door molding would get a SHHHHHST to get him away from it but it will be the molding that'll get a board nailed to it to prevent further damage) but only if I see it done right then and there, if I don't, I ignore it even if I know who did it (which, in most cases, I do). There are no sessions, no target stick, no treats, no nothing but patience, persistence and consistency. And it works. At least, it always has for me so far and I don't only take 'problem' birds, all but two of my dogs were 'problem' ones (the other two have congenital conditions) and some of my cats, too.

Nowadays, with the bird target/trick training fad, you get questions like one just posted in another bird site from a child who bought a cockatiel from a store where the bird is still been hand-fed. He wanted to know if he could start training the bird while still in the store. A baby that is still been handfed!!! Or the one from this guy who wanted to know what was wrong with his bird because he would not learn to play dead like Kili does. Or the lady who, having adopted a 3 year old conure from the home from hell, was doing one hour sessions two days later. It kills me, KILLS ME, to read these things and wish people would concentrate more on loving them than on 'training' them!
 

Monica

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If training is to mean that one learns something, then by that definition, you are training... as in training a cat to not scratch on something. Training occurs each day. Each experience can be a learning sessions, even if it's something as simple as walking into a room with an animal in it.

Unweaned birds are learning! They are learning through experiences! And they can be trained even before they are weaned! Barbara Heidenreich has a video of her teaching a BTM to step up for formula. The BTM was not deprived of food, merely taught to step up for food. You may not agree with it, but I think something like that is ok as long as the bird isn't deprived of food. I do believe that this works better on chicks that are mostly or fully feathered out however rather than chicks who are still unfeathered or hardly feathered out. Chicks that are more likely to be moving and exploring their environment (and can do so without supplemental heat) rather than ones who would prefer to huddle together to keep warm.

As far as the guy who expected his bird to be like Kili.... sounds like his expectations were too high and he doesn't realize that many behaviors he sees need to be trained. You are right though about people seeing parrots doing tricks or talking, then deciding to get a bird of their own and having too high of expectations for those birds, then not understand why their bird doesn't "act right". That can be said for just about any animal though! There is a quote that goes along the lines of "You get back what you put in", which, in a sense, is rather true.

As far as the gal doing one our training sessions? I agree, that's extreme! Training sessions with birds should be short! No more than 3-10 minutes, if that!


Animals can be trained without treats, but sometimes it's easier using treats than praise or scritches. Heck, I've taught Casey, my first tiel, to station at the door of the cage for a few seconds and she'll get a head scratch! This was unintentional and food wasn't used! Instead of coming to the door then flying out into the rest of the room she will now come to the door and wait for a head scratch. If I ignore her, *then* she'll fly off. If I don't ignore her, then I can give her scritches while refreshing the food in the cages. I can then pick her up and put her back into the cage to eat, put her on my chest or shoulder and give her more scritches or something else!

For a bird that isn't tame like she is, food might be the way to go! And it was, for 5 adult flighted budgies, and 5 adult cockatiels ranging from previously tame to completely wild and skittish! For other birds, maybe it's toys? Verbal praise? Or something else?
 

petiteoiseau

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I agree with you, Monica. Training is teaching and it doesn't matter whether it's a programmed session or something done all the time, the way we teach our own human babies but most people don't see it that way. They see the YouTube videos and want the 'show off' quality of it all. They see themselves posting their own videos of their bird doing all these tricks and this is NOT what bird keeping should be all about. It should not be about an Alex's vocabulary and it should not be about a Kili's playing dead. It should be about love without expectations and nothing else. And, if you acquire a bird and are so eager to teach it tricks, you should not have a bird to begin with. I have no issue with target training and I think it's super useful for aggressive parrots but it has become a double-edged sword fad in the bird world and I think that, all considered, it's beginning to do more harm than good. Now, every single problem people ask about gets a 'target train it!' answer as if it was the alpha and the omega of bird keeping! It's not. Target training is not going to make an unhappy bird happy which is the only reason why birds act up, in my personal opinion. I also do NOT agree with teaching a baby to step up to get his formula and shame shame shame on Barbara Heindenreich for doing it! Can you even begin to imagine the kind of damage this can do to all the baby birds out there! A baby shouldn't have to do anything at all but ask for food in order to receive it!
 

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Personally, I believe that trick training has an incredibly useful purpose in shaping desire behaviour/diverting from undesirable behaviour. When Ruby gets cage defensive and angry, I cue him to do a couple tricks for a treat and he snaps out of his aggressive mode, at which point he steps up nicely. When I want to introduce him to a new person or an object, I cue tricks at a comfortable distance and get closer while keeping the focus on training, or get the new person to cue tricks. It works wonders for desensitization. I also teach Ruby and the tiels to share a perch together peacefully by having them focus on performing instead of knocking somebird off. I think that trick training is something that everyone should try with their birds, even if it's only a couple tricks. It's enriching for their mind and is so useful in practical applications too. :D
 

lupe

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I dunno maybe I'm just too simple & really dont over analyze things..I cant remember a time when I havent had animals. I never labeled or gave it a term..to me "training" simply means educating the animal to behave in a courteous and healthy way, so that it can lead a happy and enriched life. Much as you do with a child. And ironic as it may seem, I cant remember having much trouble with any pets.....:)
 

Laurul Feather Cat

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I shudder when I think of all the untrained dogs in the houses and yards of America. The families can't take them anywhere because they have no manners and get overexcited. A dog is more than a thing to "have", it is a living creature that wants to share the life of the pack and it needs to be taught how the pack behaves in order to do that. But so many people just "have" a dog and have done nothing to make them truly part of the family.

Could you tak your dog to the park, or for a ride in the car to the supermarket to pick up milk? Or do you have a canine barbarian at home?

The same idea is even more important to larger, more intelligent birds. I agree about starting young and nipping undesirable behavior in the bud.
 

Laurie

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I think, overall, training if done in a positive way and at the birds own pace and for it's enjoyment is all good.

To have a goal in mind and attempt to train a animal to do something does not in and of itself mean that the owner has expectations which if unmet will cause them to feel negatively about their pet.

I adore all my birds. Trained or not.

However, I greatly enjoy it when my bird, steps up, flies to an outstretched arm or gladly goes back inside it's cage for a treat. These are all behaviors that have been trained.

I also think these general behaviors contribute greatly to their quality of life. If they did not go back to their cage willingly then I could not let them out during the day if I only had a few minutes. When I first got my birds and they wouldn't go back to the cage willingly I could only let them out if I had time to let them tire themselves out before they needed to go back. Now I can let them fly for 5-10 minutes and then stand by the cage and call out "treats" and usually four out of six of them will come and get in their cage on their own. Then I give them a treat. There is often a hold out or two (not even always the same birds). I just try again or I use the treat to lure them into stepping up and then ask them to go in again. I am pretty sure they like the arrangement because they do it 2-3 times as day. If they don't do it then we just try again. I can't see the downside.

It is not the training, it is having an incomplete or uneducated understanding as to what is realistic. I agree that false expectations are a huge problem but training in and of itself is a positive tool not the source of the problem.

All training should be approached from the with patience, an open mind and most all love and care for the animal. It should most definitely be about them and not you. However, as I said many behaviors that can be learned by parrots (thus taught or trained) facilitate a much better life for the bird.

More education on how to do it properly is the key. At least that's my opinion :)
 

Laurul Feather Cat

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When I got my first parrot (a cockatiel), I never thought about training. Luckily Gracie had been a hand fed, human raised bird and wanted to be near or on me constantly. When I realized parrots were trained to step up as little babies, I at first thought it was terrible to "coerce" a baby bird into stepping up on a hand when they were so little and naive. Of course when I got Gracie's mate who had been hand fed but not actually tamed, I understood why humans started training so early. Yet, I never thought about any more training for my birds.

Until I started leaving my ex-wife's wild lovebirds out of their cage and had to chase them every night with a net to get them back in the cage. This lasted almost three weeks. Then, one night, I announced "Bedtime" and started putting Gracie and her mate in their cage and when I turned around to chase the lovebirds, they were already inside their cage eating their fresh foods and getting ready for sleep. It took me three days to realize the lovebird THEMSELVES had trained their flock to get in the cage when I announced bedtime! The darn birds were smarter than I was. They didn't like being chased with a net any more than I like chasing them. From that time on, every new bird I got learned step up on both my hand and on a hand held perch so it was easier to get them in their cages.

The result was when I had a flock of lovies, budgies and cockatiels number 22 birds, it would take me only ten to fifteen minutes after I announced bedtime to get everyone in their cages. Three little lovebirds trained me about how to train birds.... :bag:
 

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Such varied opinions here. I'm glad so many members have taken the time to truly think about their opinion on this matter, and we are all indeed entitled to our own opinions. I'm not sure if there is exactly a right or wrong answer here. However, I can tell we all love our birds and care about our birds and want the best for them, and that's what's most important. :love: When it comes to my own opinion, I think it's a bit wrong to bring home a bird for the sole purpose of training it or getting it to talk. I think positive reinforcement is extremely important. Rewarding birds for good behaviors is key. How you do that is what works for you and your bird, really, and what you've experienced to have worked with birds in the past. Negative reinforcement is not as useful, and NEVER do you physically punish your birds. But I'm sure you all know that. Looking forward to more responses!
 

JLcribber

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Training is a very broad term. Just being consistent in the things you do and how you handle a bird as well as having some routine is all training that does not feel or appear like training.

Trick training is nothing more than that. Trick training (In my humble opinion of course :) ).
 

Monica

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I agree with you, Monica. Training is teaching and it doesn't matter whether it's a programmed session or something done all the time, the way we teach our own human babies but most people don't see it that way. They see the YouTube videos and want the 'show off' quality of it all. They see themselves posting their own videos of their bird doing all these tricks and this is NOT what bird keeping should be all about. It should not be about an Alex's vocabulary and it should not be about a Kili's playing dead. It should be about love without expectations and nothing else. And, if you acquire a bird and are so eager to teach it tricks, you should not have a bird to begin with. I have no issue with target training and I think it's super useful for aggressive parrots but it has become a double-edged sword fad in the bird world and I think that, all considered, it's beginning to do more harm than good. Now, every single problem people ask about gets a 'target train it!' answer as if it was the alpha and the omega of bird keeping! It's not. Target training is not going to make an unhappy bird happy which is the only reason why birds act up, in my personal opinion. I also do NOT agree with teaching a baby to step up to get his formula and shame shame shame on Barbara Heindenreich for doing it! Can you even begin to imagine the kind of damage this can do to all the baby birds out there! A baby shouldn't have to do anything at all but ask for food in order to receive it!
I agree with you, to a point. I don't believe that training should be viewed as a way to show off what cool things your animal(s) can do, but rather as a means to enrich the lives of your animals. What if a bird could learn to ring a bell to get your attention rather than screaming? What if a bird could learn to play with toys instead of plucking? Or what about training an untamed bird to accept nail trims? Or teaching a parrot to go back inside his/her cage on their own without having to chase the bird around the room? Maybe it's to teach them to accept getting medication via a syringe? Even nasty tasting meds? Or perhaps it's to accept getting nebulization?





(BHM, not BTM)






It's less about "stupid pet tricks", and more about learning how to communicate with them, giving them direction, enriching their lives, and making it easier to live with them! Training can also be used as a way to build confidence in animals and a way to help get rid of excess energy, so there are less undesirable behaviors to occur.


Target training can be a great way to interact with a parrot in a hands off manner! This means, reduced bites, perhaps even no biting! Target training is a rudimentary behavior! From there, you could teach turn around, fly to cage, fly to perch, step up, fly to hand/arm, play with toys, etc! Targeting can even be combined with other behaviors, such as retrieve and drop - have a parrot fly to a person for a $5 bill, then fly back to the handler and place the money into a container. The behaviors can be made more and more complex as the animal learns new behaviors!

Having a bird sit in it's cage full of toys could be like a human sitting at home all day long watching TV, playing games or just doing nothing and sitting on the couch. Sure, they have a means to entertain themselves, but it's not always very enriching. However, a parrot learning new behaviors could be like a human going for a bike ride, going swimming, going hiking and learning to climb rocks, dancing or anything else that helps get them moving and enriches their lives!



Take a look at this macaw! Fargo is a B&G in Australia, owned by one amazong young owner!


When Tab (owner) set out to buy a B&G, out of all the babies she came across, all 16 macaws were girls, except for two (the other already sold). Tab was dead set on getting a boy, even though the girls were more friendly! Fargo hid in the corner, trying to look as unobtrusive as possible! Because two people had already purchased Fargo then backed out and returned him, he was described as "feral" and that he may just be a "breeder". The breeder tried to refuse selling Fargo to Tab because of his demeaner and how the girls were so much friendlier! And also because Tab was a young, inexperienced parrot owner. Fargo was her first macaw. Fargo was, if I recall right, Fargo was not only her second bird, but first large parrot.


Fargo is over two years old, so he hasn't reached sexual maturity yet. However, imagine just how much easier it may be for Tab to deal with him once he reaches sexual maturity. They formed a great and amazing bond through training! If Tab didn't take him, he might have become a breeder. He would have been unhandable and terrified of human touch... yet, if you look at that video, you can see how much love and devotion is between them! She didn't buy Fargo to teach him tricks, and she certainly didn't go to any behaviorist or trainer to learn any of this, either! Tab also owns horses (currently 3 very large stallions! [gelded] 16-17+ HH) and grew up with her mother's horses, too, so already has an understanding of training.


She has had a few people decide to own a B&G macaw because of Fargo, but she's the first person to say it's not as easy as it looks! It takes time and training to get an animal to that point! And she will try to persuade them otherwise! Another person even said she stole his photos and videos off the internet! Well, Fargo has become pretty popular! But there is only one B&G macaw like him! ;)



You're right, target training may not make an unhappy bird happy, but it's what you can do with that training once the bird learns it! What else could they learn? What else could help to enrich their lives? Improve their behavior? Give them direction? Teach them a form of communication? Target training is JUST the beginning!


Training is a very broad term. Just being consistent in the things you do and how you handle a bird as well as having some routine is all training that does not feel or appear like training.

Trick training is nothing more than that. Trick training (In my humble opinion of course :) ).
Step up is a trick! ;) So is going back to their cage or coming out! I know when many people think of "trick training", they think of a bird playing fetch, basketball, turning in circles or any other kind of "circus" behavior! However, basic training can still fall under trick training!

If we can define a 'trick' as "An unusual action learned by an animal." (as defined by Oxford Complete Wordfinder), then by definition, step up is a trick!

What is a Trick
 

petiteoiseau

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Monica, I agree with you but most people don't 'see' parrots the way you do... just look at all the birds in rescues and sanctuaries, all the ones that have 'behavioral' issues! The greatest majority of people are into self-gratification and it needs to come easy and fast and videos showing birds performing tricks is making a lot of people who should never have birds acquire one. I had a police officer knocking on my door asking if he could adopt Freddy (LSC with 21 years of screaming now behind him and a penchant for going after the feet of people he doesn't like) because he saw how sweet he is with me (bird is a kissing fool), how funny and talkative ("Unlock the door! You forgot to unlock the door!"). He wanted him for his 6 and 8 year old children and both him and his wife work all day long. People don't have any sense when it comes to pets and this trick training fad is going to backfire big time, in my personal opinion! Don't misunderstand me, I am all for the 'everyday' kind of training animals but the simple truth is that not everybody is 'wired' for training, video and kits or not.
 

bicmeister

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I haven't read this thread thoroughly, just skimmed bits and pieces. The main reason I trick train my parrots is it motivates me to keep to keep training in general. The plus side of it is that my birds get used to performing actions I find desirable (like step up, hang like a bat, step up on new people, wave to new people, etc. )Teaching my parrots to wave and shake my finger is fun for me, and it also trains them to accept me touching their feet. Training "show me your wings" is adorable and helps me desensitize them to me opening their wings.
 

birdle

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awesome post. I agree that every animal needs some training. Nobody likes an untrained dog. Nobody likes any kind of untrained, unruly animal. of course you can say that you're just letting them be their natural selves but that is just an excuse. training happens 24/7. every interaction is some kind of "training" because the animal learns from you. just by being consistent you can get some training done without even trying to. when I trained horses I always kept in mind that every single interaction was a form of training, even if it wasn't in a training session.

edit: when I say nobody I guess I really mean the majority of people. some people really couldn't care less.
 

Laurie

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Monica, I agree with you but most people don't 'see' parrots the way you do... just look at all the birds in rescues and sanctuaries, all the ones that have 'behavioral' issues! The greatest majority of people are into self-gratification and it needs to come easy and fast and videos showing birds performing tricks is making a lot of people who should never have birds acquire one. I had a police officer knocking on my door asking if he could adopt Freddy (LSC with 21 years of screaming now behind him and a penchant for going after the feet of people he doesn't like) because he saw how sweet he is with me (bird is a kissing fool), how funny and talkative ("Unlock the door! You forgot to unlock the door!"). He wanted him for his 6 and 8 year old children and both him and his wife work all day long. People don't have any sense when it comes to pets and this trick training fad is going to backfire big time, in my personal opinion! Don't misunderstand me, I am all for the 'everyday' kind of training animals but the simple truth is that not everybody is 'wired' for training, video and kits or not.
I think I understand your point but I don't think we should hide the awesome things our parrots can do just so that other people will not think they are awesome.

When the policeman wanted to adopt Freddy because of how he acts with you, did you then wish that Freddy was a screamer and a biter a plucker so that people who saw him would never want a parrot? No, you probably told him what was involved in helping Freddy act that way, the dangers of the a large parrot with small children, the care the feeding the time and the love and yes, even the training.

Education is the key. Persuasion, help people to see both sides.

Getting a bird to kiss you or teaching him to talk are the oldest tricks in the book ;)
 
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