Starting out breeder

[Willzilla]

Hi im quite new to this. I am building an aviary with 2 flights one bigger than the other. I was planning on having 1 pair of cockatiels and 2 pairs of budgies in the bigger flight. And in the smaller one maybe 1 pair of ringnecks but im not sure because they are loud and to hard at the moment. So maybe in the smaller one I might have lovebirds or some sort of smallish bird. I know someone that is a budgie breeder he has lori's and some kind of rosella. He is experienced and has been helping me out and said I should start with budgies or cockatiels because they are more easy going and I want to anyway! I was wondering depending on the birds personalities, would I be able to handle the baby's in the nest so they become a bit more tame? I got to hold and see some budgie baby's and

I have had my first cockatiel for 3 months now i got him 1 week out of the nest and just the other day he started letting me give him scritches Im going well.

Also what kind of things will I need to have around for baby's? Im going to buy some syringes and feeding formula. If something goes wrong the vet isnt far and I can call people. I would love to hand raise some babys but have to go to school but what could i do to help make the baby's tame? Im tired so I cant remember my other questions

Thanks for helping in advance!

 

[Greycloud]

Well, first you need to have a beeder take you under their wing, so to speek. Do not attempt handfeeding by yourself. The only way to get experience is by doing it, with guidance. Even the most experienced breeders lose babies due to accidents.
Do not put tiels in with budgies. Budgies can be quite agressive and tiels are vry mild tempered birds. Pick one or the other for a cage. Lovies breed well on thier own too.
Their are breeders that have great success with handling the babies everyday at about 2 weeks on and letting the parents finish feeding and weaning. I do not have experience with this type. I know many have said, you take the chance with the parents becoming upset with frequent nestbox visitation and end up having the parents stress and kill off their young. So each breeder pair would have to be worked with on this while taking the chance of losing young. Please make sure you hook up with a good breeder.
You will need a brooder for babies, thermometer for formula, syringes, bedding for babies and really quite alot more. Breeding is not a real money making project. It is somethig you do because you love birds and want to place them in great homes. Good Luck.

 

[Sharpie]

I would see if you can sort of 'apprentice' at the breeder's for a few months or a breeding season before going on your own. Handling the babies depends on the parents. My adult budgies are well used to people, so they didn't care if I handled the eggs, the babies or peeked in the nest box whenever I wanted. If the parents are not tame though, you've got to be much more careful.

Most importantly, you need to be experienced, ready and able to handfeed before you ever give the adults a breeding box. One of my hens decided she just didn't want to feed more than two babies and just ignored the others, so I had to pull them at 10 days old and handfeed them so they wouldn't starve to death and die. At that age, I had to he home and able to feed them every three hours. Even then they might have died. I had to arrange my entire life around being able to feed those babies for the next month, and I have never been more glad to see a bird eating on its own than when those babies weaned! It's a lot of work, but I chose to bring them into the world, so I was responsible for their lives. I also had a vet on call and money in the bank so that I could rush the babies or the hens into the vet if they had problems. Again, I chose to risk their lives by breeding them, so it was my responsibility to get them emergency care if they got into trouble. It's not cheap, but it is necessary.

 

[Willzilla]

Great advice! if you have to feed them every 3 hours I could walk home at lunch to feed them and have lunch at home then go back to school. It takes me 15 mins to and from school and I have about an hour so it could work out great. I know it would be really super hard so what times do I always need to feed them? I could get handfeeding experience from the person i know because he is in the bird club and knows lots of people with all kinds of birds that would love to help me. He is really helpful and he asked one of his friends if he could show me all of his big birds that he has like kings, mustaches and ones like that. I would be fine to do budgies or cockatiels, what ones would be more easy to start with? I will need a brooder then and making things is something im really good at and electronics too I think I could make one myself. I wont have any nest boxes in the aviary until I have these things and its in a good way breeding season is just over so I have more time to get sorted out and there still may be birds laying eggs around. Oh and this guy I know breeds show budgies he has 2 flights with atleast 50 budgies in each he is building 2 more and he has a whole quite big room with budgie breeding cages on the walls and heaps of budgies! He said he has paid hundreds just for a budgie because its a good budgie and that the colour doesnt matter as much when your into it like him. Another cool thing is just down the road is a really big public aviary with macaws, black and normal cockatoos and heaps of other birds It would be so awesome to just help out there.

Thanks for the advice so far its really good

 

[Jan]

What about when there are times you have to feed from day 1 and this results in every two hour feedings from 6 am to late night for the first week or two? Very young babies have to be fed on a time schedule day in and day out and not miss feedings otherwise it will not be good for their growth.

If you have those near by aviaries you can visit and get some hands on experience that would be all the better for you and any future babies concerned! It's a true dedication when it comes to raising the babies.

 

[J*M*L]

I hate to discourage you because you sound so dedicated to the idea, but will you be able to keep up your grades in school if you are having to get up every three hours in the middle of the night? Also, are you prepared to fall in love and bond with these little babies and then give them away? Very often, reputable breeders don't make a profit selling baby birds. The cost of food and vet care (egg binding, splayed legs, etc.) is too much. They only do it because they love what they do. Just food for thought. I wish you the very best whichever your decision.

 

[J*M*L]

Here are two very informative websites on breeding cockatiels...
Breeding Cockatiels, how to breed cockatiels, cockatiel breeding, causes of cockatiel infertility and failure to breed, why cockatiels won't breed, how to candle eggs, nest box, nestbox, how to set up a cockatiel nestbox, what to use and put inside a
Articles From The Nestbox - Just Cockatiels!

 

[Willzilla]

Ok im starting to think that I should keep the 2 flights, but have 1 breeding pair of cockatiels in the smaller flight or maybe I could divide the bigger flight into 2 more flights. I think right now I would just like to have one good breeding pair of birds so it can be more easy and manageable. What did you mean getting up in the night?

And is there a way I could keep the bigger flight, but divide 1 corner to have a pair of budgies in or do they need bigger when they are around a bigger space? And could I keep lots of cockatiels in one flight but if some pair up I could put them in a separate flight?

 

[Sharpie]

If you have to hand-feed young babies, you've got to get up in the middle of the night, sometimes two or three times depending on HOW young, to feed them too. Trust me, it gets old pretty quick, especially when you start getting sleep deprived and cranky. And you can only stretch the time between feedings based off the youngest chick's age and how their health is. So if you have a sickly chick, or multiple young chicks you have to handfeed, it may be two weeks before you're allowed a full night's rest.

It sounds like you have some great resources in your area to learn from. Remember that if you have a flight for a breeding pair, you need to reserve another flight for the babies as they start to wean and fledge and outgrow the brooder, and possibly even a third for young adult birds or non-breeding adult birds that don't get homes right away or that you don't want to breed at that time.

 

[Renae]

You could start off with 1 breeding pair, that'd probably be the best thing to do. You will need to have a pretty big cage though, some Cockatiels can have a fair few babies and once they are older and start fledging and coming out of the nest box, you'll need enough room for them plus the parents. OR you could get another flight cage for the babies and transfer them into it when they are eating and drinking by their selves.. (weaned).

Young chicks from 3-4 days need to be fed EVERY 2 HOURS, this means you'll be up every 2 hours up until they reach 14 days old where they then have 5 feedings a day.. when they are 5-7 days they need to be hand-fed every 3 hours. It's not easy at all, I have done it myself, and not that I don't regret it, it's time consuming and especially hard if you go to school/work. There's also a lot of things that can go wrong, I don't know if you have hand-fed before, but if you haven't, it'd be a good idea to have someone teach you, like a breeder so you will be prepared.

There's also vet bills (if the mum gets egg bound or there's complications or something happens with one of the chicks) hand-feeding formula, utensils, brooder etc etc. If you want to breed you need to be 100% ready/prepared and have done a lot of research as well as all the risks and what comes with breeding. I'm not saying if you should or shouldn't do it, but have a real big think about it, 'cause there's a lot of money that comes with breeding as well.

 

[Willzilla]

Ok well I think I might just have 2 flights, one bigger one for the babies and the smaller one (its already built but on the drive way) for breeding. I dont want to be full on with it but I still want to do it. For me making a brooder and selling it would be fun.... Do you think I could do that and sell them for a little more than I paid to make them to help with costs? There is a guy that builds heaps of different kinds of nest boxes and people request them and stuff. I make some money but a little more would help alot plus building things and electronics is fun!

 

[srtiels]

I would strongly suggest that you cage breed the pair for the first time. This way you can see how they get along as a pair, how well they incubate and care for the babies. While cage breeding you can get them used to checking the nestbox daily from the time you set them up. because as the eggs develop you are going to want to monitor the nestbox for any problems, same with when the babies hatch out.

I do this with all my pairs before I put them in a big walk-in sized flight, which aI can also use to colony breed.

Plus the birds are more releiable breeders if they have had cage bred expereience first. You might even let the pair fleadge and wean out their first clutch. If you handle the babies in the nest a couple times a day from first hatch they tend to be more stable and handtame.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

What about when there are times you have to feed from day 1 and this results in every two hour feedings from 6 am to late night for the first week or two? Very young babies have to be fed on a time schedule day in and day out and not miss feedings otherwise it will not be good for their growth.

If you have those near by aviaries you can visit and get some hands on experience that would be all the better for you and any future babies concerned! It's a true dedication when it comes to raising the babies.

Hi Jan,

Curious as to why you give advice to only feed from 6am to late night (every 2 hrs.)? What hr.(s) do you consider "late night"? When I handfeed from day #1, I do it every two hrs. around the clock for the first week, maybe stretching it to 3 hrs. here and there after the 1st 5 days. Yes, odds are they won't die if you don't handfeed from late night until 6 am the first week or two but IME, that is not the best thing to do.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

William,

You have gotten lots of good advice in this thread. As was already mentioned, best not to get into breeding for the reason of making money - most likely this will not happen, especially if you do everything right and everything in the best interests of your birds.

However, if you still go ahead and get into it anyway, then at least get fully prepared. I would like to see you purchase a book called: Handfeeding & Nursery Management. Read it word for word & digest it. Also purchase books on baby birds and learn how to assist a hatch when a baby is stuck in the egg and all about what goes on in the egg etc. ... Learn about repairing a cracked egg, learn about proper humidity and handling. Learn how to give Sub-Q injections to baby & adult birds, intra-muscular injections, learn how to crop feed and evacuate a crop. Get together a birdie medicine chest to include some prescription meds that could prove to be life-savers in times of emergency. Otherwise have a nice sized bank acct. ready to pay an avian vet whenever one may be needed. These vets are not cheap.

Have an incubator and a brooder ready to go. Have contacts in the field, like at least one very experienced local breeder who is willing to help you at any time, day or night. Be prepared to trade services with this breeder like helping him/her out at their aviary in exchange for the time they give you in teaching you what you need to know.

I have mentioned SOME of the things you should have before you get started. There are more. Again, I would not get into the hobby of bird keeping or breeding to make money.

 

[robin's my baby]

Great advice! if you have to feed them every 3 hours I could walk home at lunch to feed them and have lunch at home then go back to school.

but what if somthing happens wile your not there

 

[srtiels]

Hi Jan,

Curious as to why you give advice to only feed from 6am to late night (every 2 hrs.)? What hr.(s) do you consider "late night"? When I handfeed from day #1, I do it every two hrs. around the clock for the first week, maybe stretching it to 3 hrs. here and there after the 1st 5 days. Yes, odds are they won't die if you don't handfeed from late night until 6 am the first week or two but IME, that is not the best thing to do.

-------------------------------------------------

Hmm...I try to avoid feeding from Day one if at all possible. But during the move from the trailer to another loccation I had to pull and incubate eggs. With new hatchlings water is the only thing needed for the first 12-18 hours, then a dilute formula (eletrolytes for the water)...BUT I feed every 3 hours, and up til midnight, and then started the day again at 5-6 AM. I did not get up during the night and all the tiel babies did fine on this schedule.

 

[Jan]

Hi Jan,

Curious as to why you give advice to only feed from 6am to late night (every 2 hrs.)? What hr.(s) do you consider "late night"? When I handfeed from day #1, I do it every two hrs. around the clock for the first week, maybe stretching it to 3 hrs. here and there after the 1st 5 days. Yes, odds are they won't die if you don't handfeed from late night until 6 am the first week or two but IME, that is not the best thing to do.

I have usually feed up until I go to bed in which when I have babies, it is later than usual so it might even be 12 or 1 am but sometimes earlier and I do not get up through the night to fed unless the chick is not doing well and needs attention. Hatchling especially are more vurnable to anything and everything so they do require far more closer attention than say like a 3 week old. I will get up through the night once or twice to check brooder temps but that's only if I happen to wake up in which I do because they are in the back of my worried mind! Being that a new hatchling or a few days old hatchling will require only a couple of drops of formula way under 1cc at that age so they can actually empty out sooner than the 2 hour period and might be more like 1-1/2 hour to feed again.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

Hmm...I try to avoid feeding from Day one if at all possible. But during the move from the trailer to another loccation I had to pull and incubate eggs. With new hatchlings water is the only thing needed for the first 12-18 hours, then a dilute formula (eletrolytes for the water)...BUT I feed every 3 hours, and up til midnight, and then started the day again at 5-6 AM. I did not get up during the night and all the tiel babies did fine on this schedule.

I too try to avoid feeding from Day #1 - if at all possible.

Yes, formula is not advised or needed during the first 12-18 hrs. because the yolk sac has to be completely absorbed first (take note of this fact newbies who are about to get into handfeeding). Actually some of the "experts" (if Rick Jordan & Howard Voren are considered experts by y'all) advise only electrolytes combined (50-50) with some type of liquid nutritional supplement (like Ensure Plus) for the first 3 - 5 days of life.

Newbies, DO NOT mix the electrolyte/Ensure preparation that I mentioned above with handfeeding formula (if you decide to use/try it). Just switch immediately from that preparation, after the 3-5 days, right to very thin formula (I use Zupreem formula, as I personally had problems with Kaytee, more than once).

Note: I myself have had the following quoted scenario happen: "Another strange situation will occur if a chick suffers from a bacterial infection while being fed the Ensure hydration mixtures. The mixture will curdle in the crop. The crop contents will separate into a watery layer & a thickened sediment layer similar to soft cheese. ............. Make sure the product fed was fresh before assuming that the chick has a bacterial problem in the crop or digestive tract. If this situation arises, the bad food must be removed from the crop. ........ Babies that experience this problem should be switched to a thinned hand-feeding formula mixed 50-50 with an electrolyte solution."

Susanne, I am curious if you yourself have ever used this Ensure hydration recipe? If not, are you interested in trying it? If not, why not? Thanks in advance for the response, as I always value your opinion.

Susanne, one point that I disagree with you on, unless you wrote it incorrectly by mistake, is where you said: ".... then a dilute formula (electrolytes for the water)". I think you meant (?), first reconstitute the formula powder with water and then mix that 50-50 with electrolyte solution - otherwise I think over-hydration can occur which could kill a baby.

As to your own personal way of doing it = feeding last at midnight and then getting up between 5 A.M. & 6 A.M., that may be "fine" for the babies but according to everything I have read and have personally done, that schedule is not the best for the proper growth of the babies. Every 2 hrs. is best according to the experts and maybe every three is ok, any longer between feedings the first week could cause them to not develop at the rate they should.

 

[srtiels]

Susanne, I am curious if you yourself have ever used this Ensure hydration recipe? If not, are you interested in trying it? If not, why not? Thanks in advance for the response, as I always value your opinion.
------------------------------------

No, I have never tried or used it, so I can't comment on it.

I have handfed almost 10,000 tiel babies over the years, of that amount only approx 100 were day ones. I did everything wrong according to the books and they survived and did well with minimal problems, which were formula related at 10 days old on one group.. So...I don't go by the books because many times most info is too broad and not species specific. If it is not specific to tiels I have no interest in the info.

Yes...THANK YOU for pointing out my posting on the electrolytes. At first it is diluted 50%, or I give just plain water for the first feeding or two til I start a dilute formula. If the baby appears hydrated and digesting well then I use plain water for the formula. I do have one practice I have always done regardless of age of the baby is to add a tiny amount of garlic powder to the formula one I start it.

 

[Prince Toasty Buns]

I have usually feed up until I go to bed in which when I have babies, it is later than usual so it might even be 12 or 1 am but sometimes earlier and I do not get up through the night to fed unless the chick is not doing well and needs attention. Hatchling especially are more vurnable to anything and everything so they do require far more closer attention than say like a 3 week old. I will get up through the night once or twice to check brooder temps but that's only if I happen to wake up in which I do because they are in the back of my worried mind! Being that a new hatchling or a few days old hatchling will require only a couple of drops of formula way under 1cc at that age so they can actually empty out sooner than the 2 hour period and might be more like 1-1/2 hour to feed again.

Jan, your quoted response above is a bit confusing to me. In your earlier post (if I read it correctly), that I originally commented on, you stated that new hatchlings you feed from 6am to late at night (every two hrs.) for the 1st week or two and now in this latest post of yours you state that handfeeding of very young chicks may even need to be done less than every 2 hrs., around 1 & 1/2 hrs... so there lies my confusion as to how you personally do things and how (IYO) things should best be done for chicks during the 1st week of life especially? If you now feel that feedings may need to be done even every 1 & 1/2 hrs. - 2 hrs., then how can you go 6 or more hrs. sleeping with hungry babies in the brooder? Not trying to simply criticize here, just trying to clearly understand you and clear up possible confusion that some newbies might also have.

I am glad that you probably have not had any serious problems doing it your way but I think advice given to newbies should be given according to what has proven (by the "experts") to be BEST for young chicks. Btw, I am not one of these experts I am referring to.

To the newbies reading this thread: Many of us have different ways of doing things, regarding feeding babies - in this thread, during the 1st week of life especially. I know it is confusing sometimes as to which method you should adopt. That is why I suggest that you not take my way of doing things as the best way or the way others do things as the best way. Before getting into breeding/handfeeding babies, do the most responsible thing and that is to purchase numerous books on breeding and handfeeding and study them all. Then you will have to choose whose advice to follow = one or more of the so called "experts" or one of the members of this board. Good luck.