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Skip stick training?

Feathermint

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Hello there, new blue and gold macaw mom here (though some may have already seen my post in the welcome area, hiii! :D). While I haven't had my Abby girl long enough for her to present any serious problems, there's a question I am having trouble finding the answer to and I'd like to address it now before starting any sort of training with her. Also sorry in advance for the long post.

So to start off, when we let her out of the cage to play there eventually came a time when it was getting late and we had to figure out how we were going to get Abby back in the cage (since then I have figured out how to lure her back in there without resorting to the towel like the first night). While trying different things though, I attempted something that has always worked with my past birds: pulling out a wooden perch and having them step onto it for easy transport back to the cage. I've always had no problem teaching my birds how to step up onto a perch, until now.

Soon as we pulled out that perch Abby became deathly afraid and would try to get away from me if I moved closer with the perch. She'd raise hell, lift her wings, do that little back and forth dance, and have a general look of "put that thing back where it came from or so help me!"

So I hid the stick and this made her noticeably less upset.

She seems less afraid of my arm than the stick, though after getting the sleeve of my shirt chomped on during a miscommunication (she held her foot up and said "step up!" very clearly) I will be very careful about making sure my arm is covered before offering it to her. My bad though, she looked like she wanted to get on my arm, but I guess that also conflicted with her current distrust of me lol. Or could be related to her negative view of the phrase "step up".

I'm wondering if she had a bad experience learning "step up" in the past? She won't even attempt to bite the stick, she just wants it as far away as possible and will move away if the stick is brought closer. It's the only thing I've seen her get this upset about so far and I've seen what she looks like when she's apprehensive about new toys. It's nothing like this display. I've also been learning she uses the word "step up" whenever she is upset or apprehensive about something. My mom seems to think maybe someone hit her with a stick in the past. :( We just don't know much about her history other than she has been through 3 homes before ours and a few bits and pieces of other info (like the only reason her last home gave her up is because they could not financially care for her anymore).

Would it be better if I just skipped stick training and instead (when ready) just move to offering her my arm, or should I ride it out and try to desensitize her to the stick? Should I try something else altogether?

I just don't want her to be unnecessarily upset if she doesn't have to be. Especially if she might have had a bad experience with sticks in the past. I'm thinking about using a different word/phrase besides "step up" as well since it seems to have a negative meaning to her. I've never seen a bird get this upset over a stick before. Either that or I'm just new to macaws and am not familiar with overly dramatic displays. Like yeah, my birds at first were afraid of the stick, but I was usually able to eventually teach them the stick was not so bad. Not the case with Abby. At least thus far, since she seemed to get so upset over it I questioned if it was humane to even keep the stick within her line of sight.

If it helps, I am not afraid of her and I try to always remain confident yet calm around her. She's been a very crazy, but gentle soul and even her "aggressive" lunges aren't bad at all right now (compared to some aggressive parrots I've seen at least). We want her to know we will never hurt her for any reason.
 

msplantladi

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I have a scarlett who is still learning to trust my arm to step up so when he isn't cooperating I used the fat perch, he readily steps up and back in the cage he goes. My lil militarty is scared to death of this stick. Since they were rescues I don't know if something happened but by accident one day I offered a grape vine wreath I just happen to have handy, worked like a charm, she easily steps up 95% of the time on my hand except when she isn't ready to go back in her cage but i need her to.
 

JLcribber

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Would it be better if I just skipped stick training and instead (when ready) just move to offering her my arm, or should I ride it out and try to desensitize her to the stick? Should I try something else altogether?
You could skip the stick training. Until she sinks her beak into your arm (not if but when). :)

She doesn't trust "anything" right now and deservedly so. Conditioning is a matter of patience and time. Take more time.
 

Feathermint

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I see. Perhaps I am just not used to a bird taking more than a couple days to not be afraid of a stick haha. I'll definitely be more patient and try maybe finding a different stick, perhaps one in her cage that she has already sat on before. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't being unnecessarily cruel to her because it was alarming at first seeing how negatively she reacted to the stick.
 

JLcribber

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I've also been learning she uses the word "step up" whenever she is upset or apprehensive about something. My mom seems to think maybe someone hit her with a stick in the past. :(
She was never given the "choice" to step up. It was certainly "demanded" of her and whatever consequences resulted from her not doing it :( . Happiness is about freedom and choice. The more you provide those things the happier she'll be.

You can reasonably expect a bird like her to take 1 to 3 months to settle in and "start" to feel comfortable/secure (the honeymoon period) and about a good year to finally achieve a mutually trusting relationship. It will take "you" that long just to fully understand her.
 

Shinobi

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Leave the stick out. far away but in sight. when she becomes use to it, move it a bit closer to the cage. leave it there until she becomes use to it again. repeat until its next to the cage. this will take time. It looks like she has had a bad experience with a stick.

Henry our Eclectus was scared of toys, so we would leave the toys on a small table next to his cage for a couple of days. Then we would hang them on the outside of the cage. When Henry would play with them, They would be placed inside the cage. Now Henry recognises a toy and is on it like a dog on a bone.

With a Macaw, you can open the door of the cage and sit on the floor with your back to the bird and cage. Then play with the toy and make sounds of enjoyment. The Macaw natural curiosity should have her out of the cage and wanting to join in.
 

Feathermint

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Thanks very much Peter, I will try that as well.

So far she seems very appreciative of any wooden toys we put within her reach. I just slowly introduce it to her, show her how fun it is, and she seems super interested in it.

Gonna have to try your approach with the stick though. And also it looks like I have to always avoid saying the word "step up" around her. The other day I made the mistake of repeating the phrase after she said it, 'cause I have a habit of repeating the words I hear my parrots say, and she got super upset over it. Like we had to completely stop interacting with her and let her calm down for a bit, she got so worked up over that phrase. I've already warned my family not to ever say that phrase around her, even if she says it herself.

I've started working with her on a different phrase, and she already responds to "come here" when I target train her to a perch on her cage door. She gets lots of pine nuts and praise whenever she chooses to stand on the perch. :)
 

Feathermint

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Ahh I can't find the link on my last post to edit, but just for clarification the perch she's being target trained to is one she was already acclimated to in her cage.

The offending stick/perch that makes her upset is currently out of her sight.
 

JLcribber

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And also it looks like I have to always avoid saying the word "step up" around her.
Absolutely. It's not a request anyway. It's a demand. "Ask her" like an equal if she would like to go to X and make it rewarding. Treats/bribery make great rewards.
 

Feathermint

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Yeppers, that's what I do. :) Sometimes I get great results even adding a "please" at the end (when I say "come here" it's never in a demanding tone), but if it looks like she doesn't want to come down I either let her stay where she is and she gets no treat, or maybe I'll ask her if she wants to come to the door instead. Always trying to leave her with something positive out of the experience, even if she didn't step on the perch. I also try to keep these perch bribe sessions short and like a fun game for her.

Though if it looks like she's using the door to con me out of a pine nut I stop giving her treats for just coming to the door and move back to bribing her over to the perch.
 

Laurul Feather Cat

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Ask her.... I will ask Sunny "Do you want to go get some fresh food?" after I have put the fruit and veg out on the feeding station. She usually jumps onto my hand and runs up my arm, ready for me to walk her over to the food. Now and then she isn't interested in eating and she doesn't jump on my hand. Instead she flies away, independently, to a different feeding station, and chows down on whatever is there. The point is, Sunny makes the choice. She decides what she wants to do. She is a fully grown, sixteen-year-old Senegal Parrot and she gets to do what she wants unless she is in a dangerous or potentially dangerous situation. When the situation warrants, I do and will give her the old, firm, no-nonsense command to "Set-up" to get her out of the danger. Sunny understands the difference between the inflections and the purpose of the different words and meanings. But her knowledge of the different verbal commands was something she has learned over many, many years; mostly she learned the difference between a "command" and a "request" during that first year, like John said. I have to say over the past ten years she has never disobeyed a "command" when I gave her one, as she had found I am trustworthy and always have her safety as my purpose when I use commands. It takes time and patience and years of interaction to get that trust and understanding between the two of you.

With a puppy and a person, the pup automatically accepts the adult human as a lawgiver; because of their pack instincts and mind. With birds, they automatically see a human as a potential predator because of their prey outlook and instincts. Humans have to get past that instinctual distrust and show the bird the human is trustworthy. That is what you are doing now. Make sure each and every interaction with the bird is trust building and never trust destroying. Yes, you will need to teach stick training, but not necessarily right now. You will need it in the future when her hormonal instincts make her aggressive and dangerous to you, but the stick training will make working with her during that time safer and her routine and past trust will see both of you through that difficult time. She will come out of that hormonal instinct swarm still trusting you because of your stick training and will have not busted her trust in you while still managing her aggression from that time.

Parrots are so challenging a pet, so wonderful and loving a pet, because their brains and their family interactions are very much like our human social interactions; but on a diametrically different control than that of our dog pets. Once a parrot pet owner unlocks the secrets to how to build that special bond with a parrot, the human is locked into needing and wanting that relationship in their life. Take it as slow as you need, teach the bird as much as you can, and know it is all in preparation for a life full of parrots.
 
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